STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[One MMA Fan]

I think Yoda said that qui gon had learned how to comeback , so he didn’t have the ability before he died, so he didn’t transcend to a force ghost at death

Yea but lets be real it's Yoda he could have figured that stuff out himself.

Force ghost's have general messy logistics I didn't think George and the other directors really considered it completely.. they can sit on logs, they have newer images/projections, they wear stuff, they leave stuff behind, they use a stick, they can lighting zap, they can appear around light side users, etc it's all a tad messy, wait to see how loco the Luke ghost is.

 

[90 50]

Yea but lets be real it's Yoda he could have figured that stuff out himself.

Force ghost's have general messy logistics I didn't think George and the other directors really considered it completely.. they can sit on logs, they have newer images/projections, they wear stuff, they leave stuff behind, they use a stick, they can lighting zap, they can appear around light side users, etc it's all a tad messy, wait to see how loco the Luke ghost is.

In the lore Marca Ragnos was pretty damn real as a sith ghost

 

[EvilDDS]

Damn Marca Ragnos!

I like that reference

 

[EvilDDS]

I’m not making fun @90 50 , actually digging that reference, you old like me, or a ridiculously super comic nerd

 

[90 50]

I’m not making fun @90 50 , actually digging that reference, you old like me, or a ridiculously super comic nerd

Yup, for reference I saw empire in theater and was alive when Star Wars came out but parents weren’t taking their kids to see it.

 

[EvilDDS]

Annnd I remember your name comes from your old car, a 5.0 Mustang, shit I read and remember things!l Love that car!

 

[Mike]

I wonder if there's ever been a movie this big where such a thing was true. I don't know of any film production intentionally sought out to undermine its own film.

Or has this too be hyperbole as well this entire time?

You hear about actors who are contractually obligated, like Edward Norton phoning it in for THE ITALIAN JOB, and it's usually directors having to detach due to creative differences, such as with AMERICAN HISTORY X (once again, what is up with you, Norton?). But, so outlandish.

EDIT: Michael Moore, I think, would kinda qualify, even though documentaries are a different chain of circumstances.

Well it seems like an absurd thing to do, and like it couldn't have been the intention. But it certainly feels like RJ came in with the intention of crapping all over the plot points Abrams set up in TFA.


The whole thing comes off like nobody is in charge of making sure this trilogy has a cohesive vision and plan. And yeah, that does seem absolutely improbable for such a large franchise. I don't HATE the movie, but the two films absolutely do not feel like parts one and two of a trilogy to me.


It feels like one guy made a part one. Then a second guy was forced to come in and make a part two using elements and characters from the first guy, resented it and hated his ideas, so he absolutely buried those ideas and repurposed the characters to fit his own vision. The two movies placed side by side are absolutely jarring to me. So again, to me at least its not as if TLJ is Sharknado bad. It's that it completely derails a promising trilogy, discards the setup of TFA, and has characters randomly change direction on a whim to serve the director. It doesn't feel like RJ respects the lore, OR the ideas Abrams set up.

 

[90 50]

Well it seems like an absurd thing to do, and like it couldn't have been the intention. But it certainly feels like RJ came in with the intention of crapping all over the plot points Abrams set up in TFA.


The whole thing comes off like nobody is in charge of making sure this trilogy has a cohesive vision and plan. And yeah, that does seem absolutely improbable for such a large franchise. I don't HATE the movie, but the two films absolutely do not feel like parts one and two of a trilogy to me.


It feels like one guy made a part one. Then a second guy was forced to come in and make a part two using elements and characters from the first guy, resented it and hated his ideas, so he absolutely buried those ideas and repurposed the characters to fit his own vision. The two movies placed side by side are absolutely jarring to me. So again, to me at least its not as if TLJ is Sharknado bad. It's that it completely derails a promising trilogy, discards the setup of TFA, and has characters randomly change direction on a whim to serve the director. It doesn't feel like RJ respects the lore, OR the ideas Abrams set up.

It’s a fact he doesn’t respect Abraham’s ideas as he threw away the work JJ handed him to go off of he had already done for 8 AND 9

Like JJ was the only one who was trying to make a cohesive trilogy , regardless of how you feel about tfa, you have to give him that.

 

[Mike]

It’s a fact he doesn’t respect Abraham’s ideas as he threw away the work JJ handed him to go off of he had already done for 8 AND 9

Like JJ was the only one who was trying to make a cohesive trilogy , regardless of how you feel about tfa, you have to give him that.

Exactly and its crazy to me that a monolithic company like disney let him come in and do that.

How was there not an existing plan in place regardless of the director. It's baffling. This isn't an anthology series.

 

[90 50]

Exactly and its crazy to me that a monolithic company like disney let him come in and do that.

How was there not an existing plan in place regardless of the director. It's baffling. This isn't an anthology series.

Kathleen Kennedy must truely have a dizzying intellect.

 

[Mike]

Kathleen Kennedy must truely have a dizzying intellect.

 

[90 50]

I was quoting the dread pirate Roberts making fun of vesini

 

[Myrddin Wild]

POE: What?
FINN: They're tracking us through the lead ship.
POE: So we blow that ship up.
ROSE: If we blow it up, they'll track us from another ship.
FINN: Which is why we gotta sneak in there and trick that tracker, then jump to hyperspace before they know it.
POE: How do we do that?
DJ: f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-

Good looking out getting that quote.

This is what I was kind of remembering I was thinking "how did she know they'll track from the other ships." Rose knows literally nothing about this technology other than what Finn told her & what she figured out about the way it works based on what was told to her.... so how does she even know it's on the other ships? Maybe Finn told her? I've seen the movie 7 times but that doesn't mean that I remember every single obscure part of it. No time to re-watch right now. I suppose we're to assume her & Finn had that convo off screen if it's not something he said on screen. No biggie. We don't need the specifics of how she knew that. It does appear that the movie is making that known... so all good.

Good points, ok, it's a long weekend here in Canada and I've already started into the beers. The ships give off a signature vapour or something like that which we know, that's how the escape pods were able to get down to the planet, from being small and having a small signature, that is until DJ blew up their game and told them what to look for.
Sooo, First Order is looking for and tracking signatures from the lead ships, a little Corellian Yt-1300 is gonna slip by since they weren't looking for it.

*edit* Wildo, you remember that's what Rose was working on, she had a hand in the dampeners that limited the signature vapours that exit the ships

And Falcon, slipped out the back door, again you gotta know what you're tracking before you can accurately "tie them to an end of a knot on the end of a string"

This was my thinking as well. They were able to track the Raddus because they were already locked on... but it's easy to understand why the Falcon waz able to zip off if they never had a lock on it.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

@90 50 I saw that you had mentioned earlier about Luke dying and his metal hand. I think that's an interesting convo too, good point. I've watched it, and first it's hard to tell, as the scene is from behind and the music is playing loudly, so maybe the hand is there, maybe not, we just don't see it, too vague!

That stated, I do think Rian Johnson did admit at some point, although I'm not going to look up the source right now (about 8 beers in), that he screwed up and should've added a metal hand clinking.

But that leads into a ton of other thoughts, like maybe the hand is a part of him, Obi's saber was separate so didn't join him when he was killed. Or Obi-Wan's robe stays, but in his Force projections with Luke, he's wearing his robe. Yoda dies, his clothes, belt, necklace leave with him but not his blanket, which by the way is Qui-Gon's robe. Yep, Yoda took Qui-Gon's robe and made a blanket out of it. So why do the clothes, belts, necklace and stuff go with them, but not the robes. And then Anakin force ghost is just a whole mess. Dude lost his arm while he was a Jedi. Obi took the rest. But force ghost Ani is complete

I think Lucas and Rian both admitted they screwed up, so it's a mixed bag of what can happen

Rian said in an interview there was a reason the hand didn’t drop, it I suspect he was back peddling or trolling.

As far as anakin, he was already “Darth Vader” when obi cut his ass up, even though he wasn’t in the suit yet. So his force ghost would be from before palp turned him.

I think you guys are making the netherworld out to be too solid like our own plane of existence is. It's a world of energy & conscious.... & so whatever the residual self image is within your conscious is what manifests. My understanding is that your "residual self image" can appear however you feel it. You can appear young or old, doesn't matter. (I'm relating to this from the Matrix movie... when Neo first entered & was learning & wondered why his hair was different or something like that.)

If I recall correctly Vader has appeared as old anikan (from the end of ep. 6) & later on as young anakin. So that would be the reasoning behind why this is. (or was that a re-edit?) Either way, it's easy to understand that we are stuck with our bodies in this plane... but in the netherworld (or whatever you want to call it) your physical form can be whatever your conscious considers your residual self image to be.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

that was a re-edit

 

[minute bull]

It feels like one guy made a part one. Then a second guy was forced to come in and make a part two using elements and characters from the first guy, resented it and hated his ideas, so he absolutely buried those ideas and repurposed the characters to fit his own vision. The two movies placed side by side are absolutely jarring to me. So again, to me at least its not as if TLJ is Sharknado bad. It's that it completely derails a promising trilogy, discards the setup of TFA, and has characters randomly change direction on a whim to serve the director. It doesn't feel like RJ respects the lore, OR the ideas Abrams set up.

The thing that really fascinates me is interpretations like this, which in your mind is more logical than the notion the movie is good, well-written, and respectful. People would rather believe TLJ is the manifestation of nefarious anti-STAR WARS sentiment than, maybe, just maybe, not.

I'll be honest with you, this example character you created was me exiting TFA -- befuddled as to how the follow-up was supposed to explain the melange of homages that had very little narrative sense to begin with. I get what people mean when they think Johnson jettisoned all of Abrams' ideas, but my overriding thought is knowing Abrams didn't have solid ideas to begin with. He had a vibe of what he wanted to re-capture but as is usual for Abrams he cannot create so much as mimic.

I think Johnson added meaning and drama to Abrams plot points, and created dynamic arcs that made me feel like the characters were going through some hairy wickets.

He respected Abrams' territory a lot more than I did, that's for sure.

Good looking out getting that quote.

This is what I was kind of remembering I was thinking "how did she know they'll track from the other ships." Rose knows literally nothing about this technology other than what Finn told her & what she figured out about the way it works based on what was told to her.... so how does she even know it's on the other ships? Maybe Finn told her? I've seen the movie 7 times but that doesn't mean that I remember every single obscure part of it. No time to re-watch right now. I suppose we're to assume her & Finn had that convo off screen if it's not something he said on screen. No biggie. We don't need the specifics of how she knew that. It does appear that the movie is making that known... so all good.

I'm paraphrasing, so I'm not sure how much Rose really knows. The thing that cast a shadow of doubt for me was believing she could reprogram the tracker, not that it derailed my childhood or anything but I did think to myself how it could possible be she would have knowledge of Empire technology while being, you know, fat.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

it's so interesting how differently the movie is interpreted.

 

[Mike]

The thing that really fascinates me is interpretations like this, which in your mind is more logical than the notion the movie is good, well-written, and respectful. People would rather believe TLJ is the manifestation of nefarious anti-STAR WARS sentiment than, maybe, just maybe, not.

I'll be honest with you, this example character you created was me exiting TFA -- befuddled as to how the follow-up was supposed to explain the melange of homages that had very little narrative sense to begin with. I get what people mean when they think Johnson jettisoned all of Abrams' ideas, but my overriding thought is knowing Abrams didn't have solid ideas to begin with. He had a vibe of what he wanted to re-capture but as is usual for Abrams he cannot create so much as mimic.

I think Johnson added meaning and drama to Abrams plot points, and created dynamic arcs that made me feel like the characters were going through some hairy wickets.

He respected Abrams' territory a lot more than I did, that's for sure.

I'm paraphrasing, so I'm not sure how much Rose really knows. The thing that cast a shadow of doubt for me was believing she could reprogram the tracker, not that it derailed my childhood or anything but I did think to myself how it could possible be she would have knowledge of Empire technology while being, you know, fat.

I didn't see a good, well written movie. I get that's some peoples interpretation but ive watched it three times now, and im just not seeing that.

 

[chickenluver]

to me at least its not as if TLJ is Sharknado bad.

Going to have to disagree here. Sharknado is silly, but it's not last jedi bad.

 

[chickenluver]

If I recall correctly Vader has appeared as old anikan (from the end of ep. 6) & later on as young anakin.

That was a shitty special edition change that makes no sense since Yoda and Kenobi appear as the age they were when they die, yet Vader's ghost has the appearance of Anakin as a young man? Luke wouldn't even know what Anakin looked like.