Discussion in 'Mayberry Lounge' started by Dragonlordxxxxx, Dec 14, 2017.
On that we agree.
I think they will delay the other Star Wars movies they have planned with him because of PR but I don't think they are ready to cancel them just yet, at least not with this current team.
Question have you seen other movies by Rian ?
Try Brick from 2005 to maybe get a feel for his style better. Just a suggestion.
PS: Just saw this
Director of: Logan, 3:10 to Yuma, Walk the Line, Cop Land etc.
Director of: Guardians Vol 2, Guardians Vol 1, Super, Slither
Director of: Mission Impossible 6, Mission Impossible 5, Jack Reacher and writer of:
The Usual Suspects, Edge of Tomorrow, etc.
"My friend, After five minutes of this, I don’t know why you’re still on Twitter.
I would have loved to make a Star Wars film someday. I’m cured.
— Christopher McQuarrie"
I think there are plenty of virtues to Brick and Looper. But I think something went to his head when he landed the Star Wars gig (or allowed him to no longer restrain his ego) and...we got what we got.
As to directors circling the wagons regarding criticism of Johnson and The Last Jedi... I've said before that I've never seen a movie so clearly intended to displease the viewer, while the director essentially laughs at their expense. Rian made his own bed here.
And he and Lucasfilm have also made their own bed by attacking the fans that have complaints. Even if a black muslim woman didn't like the movie, she's an old white hetero neckbeard cis male, apparently.
I personally think Rian Johnson should be receiving the ire of fellow directors for his approach to this film. I think he's lucky to have the support of anyone, especially directors that actually respect and set out to provide rewarding experiences for their audiences.
I think their defense would be more appropriately directed toward the characters and stories that George Lucas created, and the fans that supported them. But the entertainment industry is going through an interesting phase. Insulting your customers doesn't work anywhere else. If you walk into the Gap and ask if they have that shirt in blue instead of green, you don't get called a racist, sexist asshole. Even if you say that shade of green is ugly, you still don't get tweeted at insultingly or critically by the CEO of the Gap.
Of course you don't want it. That's the point. It's awful. Obviously it doesn't have to specifically be that, I'm just brainstorming.
But essentially this tremendous change in the character that people aren't satisfied with is basically given a couple sentences of dialogue in a voice over. For a lot of people, that doesn't work.
Personally I think the most obvious direction to take Luke would have been to have him become rather hubristic buying into his own myth, equally with Kylo would have have introduced maybe a sister character who is killed and gives him the feeling he needs "more power" to prevent similar losses.
The big problem really was that Abrams sidestepped all of the real challenges with TFA and just jumped into a lazy reboot of ANH with more poorly defined settings and characters.
im actually curious how much money episode 9 will bring in. i expect much lower than the last jedi's 1.3 billion to be honest. especially now since rian johnson is doubling down that the film failed because of the "fans".
From what I recall, Johnsons trilogy is still a go for something like 2020. I'm still hopeful. Brick and looper are two movies that made me incredibly excited for seeing Johnson direct a SW movie in the first place. I'm hoping being able to do his own thing instead of working with established characters and storylines will make me more positive about the result.
As for what people are saying, even in this thread I don't think any of the people would defend the kind of insults and harassment these people are getting. Well, maybe @Tiny would.
While I don’t think it will do as well as TLJ, which did so well because of the cliff hangers Abrams left everyone went to find out, I think it will do better than some expect for the following reasons.
1. Solo, while it did not crush it at the box office because so many fans had said “f this ghey world after TLJ” it’s been out long enough and will have been by the time 9 rolls around that many feel its “safe to get back into the SW pool”.
2.Abrahms returning, while TFA wasn’t the best SW movie, it wasn’t the worst either, and it Gave is reasons to show up at the box office to see what comes next.
If it had not been for Solo, and Abrams return I think it would have done really badly, and even worse if they left rian in charge.
Rian is more than likely not getting his own trilogy now, he shit the bed tucking with OT characters, so he could make his own future characters stand out more.
This was hella well-written and quite compelling.
What's odd to me, and this has happened numerous times, is that whenever I read a criticism like this -- it SEEMS to me the film already ticks these boxes. But, I guess, it does so in a much different slant than what was wanted and left audiences wanting.
For instance the comparison of exiles -- yes, Luke's is different in that he says he came there to die but the fact that he is not dead for me creates that dramatic irony that draws me into his character arc. He is a walking dichotomy divided between what he tells himself and what he truly is. This isn't strictly an indication of cowardice or weakness of character, but of inner conflict. He's wrestling with the Dark Side within him, which includes figments of cowardice and weakness against his self-perception of being a Jedi Master/Skywalker/Legend.
This conflict is exemplified when he tries to burn the sacred tree but can't. He thinks he wants to die but he can't. He wants to turn his back on the world, and does so, but ultimately he can't.
Yoda tells him the burden of all masters is being what the student moves beyond, which is very much the same principle of parents wanting their children to be better than them but also hating the disobedience and rebellion attendant to that process. That part of himself that could not abide his own mistake and just move forward. Once he forgives himself, by accepting his own "weaknesses" and "mistakes" he overcomes them. Nothing to fear but fear itself. The irony of acknowledging his human failings to once again regain Jedi Master level self-esteem (hello, Purity of Intent!). It's a matter of looking at yourself in a good light, then looking at yourself in a bad light -- then understanding that both perceptions are true together, and neither one individually suffices.
I don't see it as character assassination, but rather his greatest struggle with his greatest enemy.
Seriously, though, yours was one of the best critical treatises on his character in TLJ. (Second to mine.)
Did Film Crit Hulk say that? Abrams is a meager ass director. His strength is as a showrunner for television, executive producer for film. Other than that he need to sit down and shut that beatboxing shit up, homey.
I know what you mean, and for me it was more like TLJ had to deal with the great many logistical (not logic) snares set by TFA -- and it might be because of TFA's abysmal effort that I give TLJ so much credit. I felt TLJ respected the good and the bad of the entire mythos, to a fault nearly.
I felt that's what he did. Not the kind of hubris like Snoke wringing his wrinkled paws with churl, but the kind that creates a looming shadow under which the self never feels adequate enough. It's like when depressed people realize they'll never ever feel anything other than depressed to varying degrees of magnitude -- that it will never go away -- but that realization IS ALSO the depression itself manifest.
Luke bought into the immaculate perfection of the Jedi master and having a single shred of doubt in his own capacity to rise to such a mantle, his world view suffered as he made himself suffer (and longtime fanboys, too).
I think some insults go to far, but rian strikes me as revealing in it.
Probably should be very certain you have a winning story when, before your movie even comes out you take a trolling photo declaring that your fans “snoke theory sucks”
Rian's a grade A troll. All Snoke theories suck because......jokes on us.......Snoke had nothing interesting about him at all. Same goes for the Rey theories. All your parent theories are pointless because Rey's parents are completely unimportant. This is all supposedly awesome because our expectations were so subverted.
The twist was like is a crappy Jedi. Literally the twist.
He didn't say that but I do see considerably praise for Abrams as a visual director which is IMHO almost totally unwarranted.
I do tend to agree that far more of the faults in TLJ had their roots in TFA than people care to admit. The idea that it was the film Starwars needed was always IMHO nonsense, it was a quick and easy fix whole undeserving of its success(mostly based on pent up demand IMHO) by a film maker of highly limited abilities. Again I do strongly suspect that Johnson was under significant pressure to follow the style of TFA which I think led to problems being much more notcible when dealing with weightier story elements.
Really the massive problem as well is that Abrams essentially bypasses all of the followup to the original films in favour of jumping to a point he can do a cheap remake of ANH. That does give Johnson a big problem when it comes to giving weight to the Kylo/Luke story although I do think the film could have featured more in the way of flashbacks to help establish any shift in Luke and a real motivation for Kylo. Without that were left with some pretty simple "tell don't show" kind of justification for Luke's actions which doesn't IMHO work very well.
You could argue as well another problem he inherits from Abrams is that Rey and Finn are simply not interesting characters, she's a bland Mary Sue audience avatar and he's a comedy sidekick which I think naturally ment the film had to be heavily about Luke.
I don't necessarily blame him entirely. I think Kennedy has too much influence over the direction of these movies as well.
I know there's some comic fans here, anyone read the latest issue of Vader, it's pretty good. Vader asks Tarkin to assemble a team and hunt him
I only hear he's average, relies too much on lens flares. He is a good visual director in the sense that he creates mood and pacing, but his style gets shit on a lot.
I don't really see that. Johnson wrote TLJ based on TFA's script (not the film) and was handcuffed to the classic Abrams plot hole of vacuousness, and in that respect I feel Johnson smashingly succeeds because you're right: Rey, Finn, and the rest were mere cardboard cut-outs in the first film. TLJ gave them dimension and obstacles to surmount -- all of which keying into their characters, which is why the plot or timeline doesn't feel like it moves that much far further. This is why people chafe at the "lowspeed" chase and the scant few days over which TLJ takes place, which leads into complaints of abbreviated/omitted training, and blah blah blah. TLJ is a keen expansion on the four main characters, with Kylo transforming from a pawn to a king.
I feel like flashbacks in this regard would be like telling and not showing, but mainly because flashbacks would isolate themselves into explaining mysteries of the first film like Luke's absence and the grooming of Kylo Ren, etc. There comes a point in a flashbacky film where it must decide THE WHEN of the story. Or rather, which story is being told. HIGHLANDER is an exception that neatly goes back and forth through time to expand symbiotically both eras into a single narrative. In USUAL SUSPECTS the real story is all in flashback and what makes it interesting is that the flashback cannot be relied on -- but still the story is more about the heist than the interrogation.
With TLJ they're definitely trying to move things forward so the use of flashbacks is confined to a very conspicuous three-beat gimmick a la RASHOMON. TLJ doesn't want to sit down and over explain how things came to be. There's no drama in that. Itdances with delicate balance between the immediate imperative of its story arc while shoring up the plot shortcomings of TFA. And yeah, it's like a track runner that has to start the race with a gimpy ankle. You say ANH, but I feel Abrams is remixing the entire Original Trilogy based on how bored he was with the Prequels. He wanted a return to his funhood and as a result I argue TFA is probably the worst entry of the franchise despite LOOKING great -- he did (another) Special Edition of the Special Edition, collapsed into a single fuck you to Han Solo.
How people are crying for Luke but not Han dumbfounds me. Han was totally used only to job for his son; he did nothing cool otherwise. The main complaint I heard about his death was people being spoiled before they got a chance to see it. I suppose his meaningless death was forgiven because TFA was so slick.
What do you mean? Run that one by me again.
Harrison was only used as a job for the movie.
"Starring Harrison Ford as Han Solo..."
That's why he got 20 mil while Daisey Riddley Made 300k ish.
His character was handled much more reliable and to what we had remembered than freakin Luke was. Not perfect, because he had to be daddy solo which nobody ever wanted to see.. His character should have been offed in the return of the jedi. As such, his dying in the Force Awakens wasn't a big shocker.
You should know this. I shouldn't have had to explain it to you.
Johnson was given a script for TLJ from Abrams for where he intended to go in the different directions from tfa, Johnson threw it all out the window and said f u
Ford has been trying to get solo killed off forever, he finally got his way, it was expected.
Separate names with a comma.