STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[SaucyJack]

So I watched a bit of that Star Wars girl and thought, “Is Kathleen Kennedy that far off the deep end?” I looked it up and no, she did not say “Girls can’t relate to Luke Skywalker.”

She did say, “I think there was an assumption being made that girls didn't care about Star Wars...or that girls couldn't identify with Luke Skywalker, or Han Solo.”

Doesn’t sound like she’s saying girls can’t relate with someone of the opposite gender to me. More like that we can relate to people who don’t share our gender or ethnicity.

The video:

 

[Halge]

Watched it yesterday.

Thought it was alright. I'm not a big Star Wars fan, so there was no chance I was going to be blown away by it. But I think some of the negative reviews are too harsh. It's exactly the same fare as The Force Awakens, which if my memory serves me received pretty positive reviews. I don't know what you expected of this one, to be honest.
It was full of illogical events and decisions, and mindboggling space physics, but that's sort of expected from a space opera. It was dreadfully predictable, and no real nerve, but at least it had some funny moments.

I do feel like the overaching plot is going nowhere. Now that Snoke is gone, I don't even know who is the main antagonist anymore. Kylo Ren? That guy sucks. He's a complete moron, and he's already been beaten time and time again. If they base a whole third movie around the Resistance fighting him, it will be horridly devoid of tension.
Here's hoping they bring in some legendary Sith badass out of nowhere in the third installment. Like, say, Snoke's master.

 

[minute bull]

I’m not denying any notions, but I’m intrigued to know what those that liked it liked about it.

Most say the cinimetagraphy , etc, and nothing about the character development (or destruction), and just what the hell they are looking forward too.

I liked the character moments and the refocus of the Force's themes back to doing right action. Not just having a true heart or moving rocks. I felt the characters had surprising moments, while others felt these surprises were either inappropriate or weakening. I don't mind the direction the story took, I concentrated more on the convention of setting up a character one way, then subverting expectation. It's like in SOLO, he says he's gonna be the best pilot in the Empire and the very next thing you see is him flying through the air .. as a failed infantryman. He hooks up with the surviving commanding officer, who turns out to be a thief. When he's about to drop the dime on the pretended, the pretender does it first to him.

These turns are harder for fans to swallow in TLJ because they're not fun lessons, but moments of growth and maturation which means, well, swallowing some things that are hard to swallow.

Abrams started building directions the characters could lead, and options for different directions and said , f this too all of it for his own self service.

He has said he enjoys reading the negative criticism and let’s he know he got to some people. Like he trolled people on purpose with decades of fandom.

Now Abrams is saying f you to Johnson and throwing all his shit out too in retaliation. So now what we have is a back and forth dick measuring contest with a series that spans generations

I was a fan as a kid, loved it, my kid is(was a fan) and we enjoyed it together. And this prick Johnson is tearing that apart.

And talking about hard-to-swallow....

Don't get me wrong: I have no doubt there is friendly competition between films, but some fans overbake it to the point I can't take it seriously. It's not that I don't care that people hated the movie, I'm quite disappointed for them. But these rhetorical assumptions is more like stoking one's own fire than a fault of the film.

So that’s my hate for it, but aside that, I’m bewildered by what people are looking forward too.

Abrams left us with

Who is snoke, where did he learn the force , who is his master.

Was Sidious sensing him in the outer rim.

Johnson, just kidding y’all he’s maul jr cut in half now, a whole episode early

Finn, is he force sensitive? Will he become a Jedi?
A lot of Abrams points to yes, how did a janitor move up the ranks so fast to one of KYlos personal team?
The force “awakened him during the shooting scene, Kylo sensed it.

Light sabers are supposed to be extremely hard to weild and not cut your own arms off, only force sensitive users can use them.

He uses a light saber more than Rey in tfa.

Rey, who the hell is she, WTF does obi wan force ghost talk to her?

I get it, some people say that Rey needed to be a nobody to show anyone can be a Jedi, we don’t need that shit, it was already there.

Anakin was a slave, the Jedi order had people from all over the place and they tested random kids for force sense.

Kyle katarn was a nobody, so was jaden and Ezra etc etc.

It’s like Johnson has no history with the SW universe (I really think he doesn’t, and I’m pretty sure he said he wasn’t a fan in an interview)

I like the new characters I want to see them develop, and how their life changes etc, it they have left us with nothing to look forward too.

Who is the big bad? Surely not the winey ginger, or the emo ren

Rey has already shown TWICE she can handle Ren, if he had gotten the better of her in both movies it would have been better, she needs to struggle.

The character assasination of Luke sky walker was atrocious, he didn’t need to milk a sea cow, Johnson make hamill do that because Johnson doesn’t like hamill personally. I don t need that shit in these films.

I have my complaints about tfa sure, but it at least left a direction to move forward too.

About the only thing that could save this crap. Is if the vong show up, and here all along the emperor was building Death Stars to fight them and now they are fucked for destroying them, and a new Jedi order needs to come around to fight them off. The first empire order what ever you want to call it has nothing.


Maybe smokes not dead, there are ways he could live, he projects his persona into other bodies across the galaxies for one

Two the force keeps him alive until he can sow on some maul spider legs I don’t know. If they have some sketchy directions.

I’d rather him stay dead to be honest and they bring about who his master was. Some one real threatening.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

This is the appropriate thread for conversation about TLJ. That last one was specifically about how people rate all Star Wars movies.

I copied our convo leading up to this here... & then will respond to your latest comments in the next post.

This post is for @Myrddin Wild to respond to. I will be arguing that the Last Jedi was a bad movie and giving specific points one by one to go through. The points about the movie that I will be bringing up are in no particular order. They are just parts of the movie that I really disliked and reveal how poorly the movie was made. To keep things as short and simple as possible I will only be bringing up one at a time and then linking a time stamped video that also goes in depth as to the problem with the movie in regards to that point.

Let's start with SNOKE since I brought him up in an earlier post responding to you. I don't see how Snoke can be anything except an example of bad writing and bad story telling. TFA awakes set up Snoke as a new powerful villain cloaked in mystery. People were interested in Snoke. I was interested in Snoke. What happened in the last jedi? Snoke died in such a ridiculous and stupid manner. Snoke dying in itself is not what I have a problem with. It's that A) he died in such nonsensical fashion and B) he died and we still don't know shit about him. We don't know his motivations. We don't know anything about his origin. We don't know if he is a Sith or something similar? It's obvious why this is disappointing to fans. He had no character development and then he just died. Snoke is set up to be an incredibly powerful force user. He claims to be able to see into Kylo's mind and demonstrated powers such as this when he made Kyle and Rey communicate with one another from large distances. Yet Kyle kills him with a ridiculous trick of igniting the light saber next to him. This is just laughable. The video below explains more.

This is one of the most perfect examples of the fact that the movie is only 2/3rds told. Everyone's worked up about knowing nothing about the powerful Snoke before he's killed... but it was just held back for the finale. Right now we're shocked by it, but in the hindsight of knowing all 3 movies... I expect it makes more sense when Snoke is further explored.

As it stands with what we currently know... Snoke's place was to show how Kylo came to become the leader of the biggest miliary force in the Galaxy. That is very understandable in the 2 movies... so mission accomplished. There is more to it than that though... that will be explained in the next movie.

How do I know this?

The narrator in the video mocks Snoke for saying that he knows Kylo's every intent... & then mocks the fact that Kylo killed him after Snoke said that. However, the narrator of the video is completely missing out on the idea that Snoke was aware of Kylo's intention to kill him. Snoke even mentions Kylo "turning the light saber" as the one next to Snoke is being turned by Kylo. So Snoke obviously knoew Kylo was going to kill him & he allowed it to happen. I have a couple of theories as to why that might be... and they are all obviously just speculation... but again... It's too soon to get too worked up over the lack of Snoke's back story & why he allowed Kylo to kill him... when the story has a finale that we haven't seen.

We can speculate about it... but to be completely dismissive of it without knowing the rest of the story doesn't make sense to me. If there's a substandard payoff in the next movie... then I will riot in the streets with you... but I'm willing to allow the mystery to not be revealed until the final act. I have no problem with that.

ps. The narrator followed that up with the idea that Snoke wasn't aware that Kylo was twisted by killing his dad... but Snoke actually mocked Kylo for it in the movie... so I'm not sure what the narrator of this movie is going on about.

Did Disney have a plan?

Sorry this is going to get longer... but the I just wanted to make a point about what the narrator of the video says about JJ & Rian writing against each other. I find it strange to hear people who think Disney just gave their 4 billion dollar asset off to a couple of writers & told them to do whatever the hell they wanted. That didn't happen.

They may have had some gaps to fill... but you gotta know that Disney had the general path planned. They didn't just write one movie with no clue where they were going afterward. Lets just get real for a moment about that. This whole thing about writer vs writer is a ruse imo.

Is this seriously your defense? This is exactly what we were trying to tell you in that other thread. Movies need to stand on their own. Snoke was garbage in this movie. They threw him away in the dumbest fashion and we never even got to find out anything about him. Your response is seriously to wait for the next movie after he was killed in this movie? Give me a break.



First off you're guessing an explanation will come in the next movie for something that should have been in this movie. How the hell is that a defense? You are essentially admitting that you can't defend him in this movie. It was simply poor character development and poor story telling.



This is pure assumption. You are doing exactly what Mauler from the video says is a bad cop out. You are doing the writers job for them by making your own story because they did a bad job. It's baffling to me that your defense of this horrible character development is to wait until the next movie after the guy was already killed. Snoke was near useless. He could have been extremely interesting instead he was a throw away character we don't care about because we don't know him at all.



You really think fans should wait until the THIRD movie to learn anything about a major character? A character that is already dead. That is such nonsense. We are talking about his movie. Not the next one.



It's very apparent that JJ did his movie and then Rian did whatever the hell he wanted in the second movie. It's so obvious considering how much Rian ignored from the first movie. Like the map to Luke for instance. It was such a big deal in the first movie and then in TLJ it meant nothing. Luke didn't even want to be found.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

you're guessing an explanation will come in the next movie for something that should have been in this movie. How the hell is that a defense? You are essentially admitting that you can't defend him in this movie.

You are mistaking my intention. I'm not defending anything. I'm telling you why I don't have any problem with something that you have a problem with. I'm giving you my point of view.

I have no problem with Snoke being a mystery for now. Snoke was never the main story... he got like 5 minutes as a hologram in TFA. He was built up more in TLJ... but he was never the lead character in the movie. Kylo was always the focus through both movies.... & so the main story in TLJ is resolved. Snoke's story is a smaller backstory that we can wait for. I'll give you that they had better explain it in the next movie... but as a Star Wars fan, I'm not willing to give up on the trilogy until the whole Story is told.

Come to think about it... the Emperor in original trilogy never even got a back story in that whole original trilogy before he was killed. I could be mistaken, but until the prequels came out all we knew was that he was the boss & was very powerful. That's about the same as we know about Snoke. Snoke just got killed in ep. 2 of 3 instead of 3.

With a 3rd part immanent... I honestly don't understand why you & others can't wait. It's a choice we make.

It's not speculation that we will get more information about Snoke. Due to the fact that he knew Kylo was about to kill him... they 100% will have to explain that. If they don't then I will riot in the streets. Even if you don't think it's 100%... you have a choice as to whether or not to wait or to just be upset by it now. It's just a flip of the mind & a choice you make.

I'd rather choose to wait for that explanation than to dismiss Star Wars in the middle of the story.

It's very apparent that JJ did his movie and then Rian did whatever the hell he wanted in the second movie. It's so obvious considering how much Rian ignored from the first movie. Like the map to Luke for instance. It was such a big deal in the first movie and then in TLJ it meant nothing. Luke didn't even want to be found.

I disagree that Rian just did whatever he wanted. It's very obvious that Disney had a plan. They didn't just tell Rian to write something, shoot it & make a movie & we hope you do good with it. "Can't wait to see it in the theaters.... here's 300 million dollars."

I recall a lot of chatter back before the first movie (TFA) where Disney sat down with George Lucas & layed out their intentions. Also, Rian moved his household for a few months while writing it so that he could collaborate in person with LucasFilm's story group during the process. So real life things are telling us that Disney had a plan & that Rian didn't just write this thing by himself.

Aside from all that... I feel it's common sense that Disney didn't just put their 4 billion dollar asset completely into the hands of an outsider. If nothing else, I would think you could agree that "if" he was allowed to write his own story with no guidance... (which is what he claims) that it still had to be approved by Disney brass.

I can see the possibility that they (up front) told Rian to just create whatever he wanted... so that they could compare it to what they had in mind... & maybe they liked his better or maybe they took some of his ideas & they blended it into what their plans were. I just don't understand how easy it is for you (& others I've heard that have this point of view) to buy that Rian wrote this movie all by himself & is solely responsible for the direction the movie went in.

Is this seriously your defense? Give me a break.

How the hell is that a defense?

I enjoy talking about Star Wars... but this part of it makes me cringe. It's not necessary to belittle each other as we exchange opinions.

The only reason I came on so strong in the other thread was because I was straight up attacking the flamers head on & making it as uncomfortable for them to be in that thread as it was for me to listen to them doing nothing but spreading hate with no real reason or content. I just did it in the Solo thread... building up to the movie... so that we could actually discuss things in there without the flamers taking over. It's now a done deal.... & I'm pretty much over that now & don't have time for it anyway. We talked about moving the convo & ditching that type of communication.

 

[Spoken]

After buying the film and rewatching it, I think my opinion has shifted a bit. I’m not a huge fan of what they did with Luke...and you gotta wonder why you’d develop a subplot that ends up being so useless

 

[IamStryker]

This is the appropriate thread for conversation about TLJ. That last one was specifically about how people rate all Star Wars movies.

I copied our convo leading up to this here... & then will respond to your latest comments in the next post.

Thanks. I looked and that other one was the best I could find.

 

[KnightTemplar]

So I watched a bit of that Star Wars girl and thought, “Is Kathleen Kennedy that far off the deep end?” I looked it up and no, she did not say “Girls can’t relate to Luke Skywalker.”

She did say, “I think there was an assumption being made that girls didn't care about Star Wars...or that girls couldn't identify with Luke Skywalker, or Han Solo.”

Doesn’t sound like she’s saying girls can’t relate with someone of the opposite gender to me. More like that we can relate to people who don’t share our gender or ethnicity.

The video:

Agreed.

However, the dumb bitch did say The Force is female

 

[Mau]

I read that Daisy Ridley and Kelly Tran left social media because of haters lol

 

[IamStryker]

You are mistaking my intention. I'm not defending anything. I'm telling you why I don't have any problem with something that you have a problem with. I'm giving you my point of view.

Maybe you don't have a problem with bad writing but it's still bad writing.

I have no problem with Snoke being a mystery for now. Snoke was never the main story... he got like 5 minutes as a hologram in TFA. He was built up more in TLJ... but he was never the lead character in the movie. Kylo was always the focus through both movies.... & so the main story in TLJ is resolved. Snoke's story is a smaller backstory that we can wait for. I'll give you that they had better explain it in the next movie... but as a Star Wars fan, I'm not willing to give up on the trilogy until the whole Story is told.

Until Snoke was killed he was the head villain. Giving no information about him at all and then killing him is absurd. The whole point of this is that I give a problem with the movie and you explain how it's not a problem. Saying to wait until the next movie does not do that. It's still a problem in this movie. Snoke was garbage in this movie. He was treated like the writers didn't care about him at all.

Come to think about it... the Emperor in original trilogy never even got a back story in that whole original trilogy before he was killed. I could be mistaken, but until the prequels came out all we knew was that he was the boss & was very powerful. That's about the same as we know about Snoke. Snoke just got killed in ep. 2 of 3 instead of 3.

With a 3rd part immanent... I honestly don't understand why you & others can't wait. It's a choice we make.

The emperor was a much better character. He did a lot more, we knew a lot more about him, and he didn't die in nonsensical fashion. I would have much less an issue with Snoke if we learned just a little about him and he was still alive. This movie killed him and it was really stupid. This isn't about waiting for the third movie. This is about pointing out issues with this movie.

It's not speculation that we will get more information about Snoke. Due to the fact that he knew Kylo was about to kill him... they 100% will have to explain that.

No that is your guess and doing the writers/directors work for them. Your idea that he knew Kylo was going to kill him is not a fact it's your guess. Myself and basically anyone else I see discuss this film interprets the turning the lightsaber as Snoke instructing Kylo to turn his lightsaber to kill Rey, as that is what he just told him to do.

If they don't then I will riot in the streets. Even if you don't think it's 100%... you have a choice as to whether or not to wait or to just be upset by it now. It's just a flip of the mind & a choice you make.

This isn't about being angry or rioting. It's just about simply admitting that they did a bad job with Snoke in this movie.

I'd rather choose to wait for that explanation than to dismiss Star Wars in the middle of the story.

Movies are supposed to make you care about the characters. I watched the first two movies and I don't care about Snoke. The movies failed to make me care. His death was so ridiculous and meaningless. I don't even know why JJ would want to give us some of his backstory after killing him like that.

I disagree that Rian just did whatever he wanted. It's very obvious that Disney had a plan. They didn't just tell Rian to write something, shoot it & make a movie & we hope you do good with it. "Can't wait to see it in the theaters.... here's 300 million dollars."

I recall a lot of chatter back before the first movie (TFA) where Disney sat down with George Lucas & layed out their intentions. Also, Rian moved his household for a few months while writing it so that he could collaborate in person with LucasFilm's story group during the process. So real life things are telling us that Disney had a plan & that Rian didn't just write this thing by himself.

Have you seen the director and the jedi? I've heard on podcasts that Rian was just making his movie. Hell Mark Hamill has made similar statemets. Rian was making his movie at all costs. I wish it was a big collaboration that made sense but I see no evidence that is what they did. I see two very disjointed movies that feel independent of one another and I hear people clarifying that Rian made his own movie without listening to others or colaborating with JJ. They gave him a basic layout and he went off and did what he wanted. You and I wish that Disney was better than this but I see no evidence that is the case.

Aside from all that... I feel it's common sense that Disney didn't just put their 4 billion dollar asset completely into the hands of an outsider. If nothing else, I would think you could agree that "if" he was allowed to write his own story with no guidance... (which is what he claims) that it still had to be approved by Disney brass.

You would think that would be common sense but I see no evidence. Link me to some evidence. But regardless of how the movie was made it's still bad.

I enjoy talking about Star Wars... but this part of it makes me cringe. It's not necessary to belittle each other as we exchange opinions.

The only reason I came on so strong in the other thread was because I was straight up attacking the flamers head on & making it as uncomfortable for them to be in that thread as it was for me to listen to them doing nothing but spreading hate with no real reason or content. I just did it in the Solo thread... building up to the movie... so that we could actually discuss things in there without the flamers taking over. It's now a done deal.... & I'm pretty much over that now & don't have time for it anyway. We talked about moving the convo & ditching that type of communication.

I'm not trying to be insulting but it's hard to take this seriously when your defense is to wait for the next movie. Will you concede that Snoke was not a good character in this movie but you are hoping that people will like him more after the next movie?

 

[ShinkanPo]

I got to watch it again, I won't say its a terrible movie but it could have been really much better Phantom Menace is a much more annoying Star Wars film but atleast if you are going to see it in the bigger perspective where it fits the StarWars saga it still fit in and considering its the 1st prequel episode.

But for the the 2nd Sequel Episode to waste an original trilogy character in Luke like that is just not acceptable and there is just no excuse.

There is a lot of chance to build the sequel trilogy with TLJ better character appearance for luke, and development for the Rey,Finn,and Poe but a lot of time was wasted with the Casino side quest too many additional characters where given screen time.



In my opinion based on the ending this episode 8 was really appropriated by Rian Johnson to spring board his new Star Wars trilogy, if you will check the ending scene there is this kid using the force to get the broom.

This scene looks so forced and out of place its like was just added there so later when Johnson introduces his new trilogy he can say "oh well its about the kid who got the broom in TLJ he is force sensitive and he will be trained by Rey"

 

[Myrddin Wild]

I'm not trying to be insulting but it's hard to take this seriously when your defense is to wait for the next movie.

Thank you... this discussion is much better. I don't agree with you very much on this... but I do enjoy the civility.

I actually find it equally strange that you cannot wait for the next movie. I'm not sure we're going to agree on this, as you are steadfast that it had to be in this movie. IMO... This is a trilogy that does not need every "i" dotted & every T crossed. There's a whole 1/3 of the story left to tell. They just left that bit for the next one.

I get that Snoke was "the head villian..." & his power was sic & I wanted to see more of it... but he wasn't ever a main character so he does not absolutely need a backstory described in act 2. or it will trash the movie for me. Kylo is the villain you were meant to engage with... not Snoke.

Heck, me & my buddies sat around for 2 years trying to figure out who he was. lol... it took me a bit of shell shock to get over that we still don't know... but I've discussed this at depth... & had a plank over the head moment where I realized he was never a main character. I've seen the movie probably 6 times by now & I'm completely fine.

I think it's the 2 year wait & all the anticipation of who he is that had given the illusion that he was more of a major character than he was... but if you get over that pretense & just accept that he was never a main character... then it's fine. We still want to know his back-story obviously... but whether it's told in act 2 or 3 isn't important. I can dig the mystery.

Will you concede that Snoke was not a good character in this movie but you are hoping that people will like him more after the next movie?

I thought he was an amazing character. I think he was so amazing that is why you are rebelling so hard against the fact that he got killed like that & without backstory. I suppose you are saying that it's because he was amazing & got killed in such a way is why I should think that he was not a good character? I feel that him getting killed doesn't change the fact that he's a great character.

Again there's more story to be told & more context to be given.

It's such a fine little detail we disagree on here... but that's my main feeling regarding Snoke... & I'm fine waiting for the final act. I do 100% agree that the finale needs to address him being killed like that... & I will be in full agreement with you if they do not.

Your idea that he knew Kylo was going to kill him is not a fact it's your guess. Myself and basically anyone else I see discuss this film interprets the turning the lightsaber as Snoke instructing Kylo to turn his lightsaber to kill Rey, as that is what he just told him to do.

Kylo tricking him is in direct opposition to the words that he just spoke where he describes seeing his every intention. I don't buy the fact that writing that was a mistake. Like it never occurred to Rian that it would be in direct conflict with the words Snoke just got done speaking. Like someone pointed it out after the movie was released & Rian did a face palm & was like "fook man I never thought of that." I don't buy that.

Rian specifically wrote Snoke saying "I see your every intent." He didn't have to use those words. I guess we're trying to say that Kylo tricked him because of Snoke's Hubris? Seemz a bit shallow... & why even write Snoke saying those words in the first place if the idea was that Kylo tricked him? It's not an oversite... it's there on purpose.

Per a discussion about why Snoke would allow it... that is complete speculation... but we just gotta see how they conclude the story. All that said... I'm not that invested in whether Snoke purposefully allowed it or not. I'm fine waiting to see the conclusion. It certainly needs to be addressed... but I'm fine waiting for act 3.

Maybe you don't have a problem with bad writing but it's still bad writing.

Well, that's what we're in the process of discussing.

To me, what you are describing as "bad writing" is more to do with them splitting the story up rather than revealing everything in act 2. You don't like the mystery that they are asking us to accept until the next movie because you feel it leaves act 2 empty feeling. I get that but I just don't feel the same way. Act 2 concludes just fine to me without knowing this sub-character's back story. To me... it's just a bit of mystery that they're forwarding to the conclusion. They can knock it out of the park in act 3 & I'm good. Then it will be considered "good writing."

Rian did write a "treatment" for Ep. 9 with his writing of Ep. 8... so it makes sense that he would hold some reveals for the final act. Of course they can change his intention.. but at least it is planned out.

It's normal for 2 or 3 part movies to leave mysteries to be solved in later movies. Maybe the reveal couldn't be written in without spoiling the conclusion. They did promise that this new trilogy will unite all three trilogies and brings everything together. So there's something big being planned.

(oh yeah, uniting the trilogies is another thing they said early on that shows that they had a plan.)

Have you seen the director and the jedi? I've heard on podcasts that Rian was just making his movie. Hell Mark Hamill has made similar statemets. Rian was making his movie at all costs. I wish it was a big collaboration that made sense but I see no evidence that is what they did. I see two very disjointed movies that feel independent of one another and I hear people clarifying that Rian made his own movie without listening to others or colaborating with JJ. They gave him a basic layout and he went off and did what he wanted. You and I wish that Disney was better than this but I see no evidence that is the case.

Rian actually did collab & "have a lot of conversations" with JJ... (see KK's answer below the picture of Rian) in fact BB-8 was supposed to be on Ahch-To, but Rian got JJ to change it to R2 so that he could do those nostalgia scenes with Luke. So they had a very interactive relationship & Rian was fully aware of & read the script for Ep. 7... got to view a lot of the daily's while it was shooting, visited the set etc... Rian also moved in with the LucasFilm Story group for 3 months while developing the script. (just under the picture of Finn)

I have not seen "the Director & the Jedi." I would need some sort of reference to their information before taking their words as gospel though. So many of these people twist things on line & over-exaggerate things for ratings. I've seen a major Star Wars advocate talking about a passage in the novel with good intentions to share something with us... but he completely twisted it & made assumptions that weren't there. So we have to see better info than podcasters. Like source material behind what they say.

In a world where so many of the directors are being changed & Solo was I think 70% re-shot... I would say that filmmakers are guided at every level by Lucasfilm’s technical departments, & hand-in-hand with the Story Group. There's no doubt that Rian was being monitored every step of the way... & he even moved in with the LucasFilm Story group for 3 months while writing it. So all this talk about TLJ being a Rian Johnson rebellion... is not logical.

Here's a quote from Dec. 2015 with Kathleen Kennedy (at the bottom of page 1, but I'll also quote it below) who clearly says she knew where the saga was going. They didn't fill in all the blanks though... (to allow creativity...)

(she also states in this interview that Rian had been working on the script for a year & a half prior to this interview.)

Peter: So when J.J. is doing Force Awakens, did he also work on a treatment for the other films in this sequel trilogy?

Kathleen Kennedy: No, because at that point we were sitting down and talking about where this might go, even as early on as with Michael Arndt. We were sort of plotting out, because obviously if you know up front that you’re building the pacing inside a trilogy structure, we needed to have some sense of where this saga was going without locking in on things and leaving room for creative development. But we had to have some sense of where we were going."

At the very least you gotta know that Rian didn't make the decision to undermine the Jedi/Sith religions. That's something that Disney is making all these other movies, tv series, novels, & comics about... so they have to have some reason for doing that... it's the central religion behind the whole universe & they aren't just going to nix it on the whim of a rebel writer/director. Likely "killing off the rebels" came from above as well. At the very least... I think we could agree that much was planned out.

 

[D3THRONED]

lol @ luke giving the resistance a map to his location for no reason. thanks rian johnson.

 

[minute bull]

lol @ luke giving the resistance a map to his location for no reason. thanks rian johnson.

I saw someone come up with the theory R2 sneaked out the data, and that feels pretty good considering both films rather gloss over this gap. I loathe the narrative of TFA because there were so many gaps and unanswered questions.

 

[One MMA Fan]

lol @ luke giving the resistance a map to his location for no reason. thanks rian johnson.

Except he didn't.

thanks for posting D3THRONED



it's all in good fun but sometimes I can't help myself..



Bam Star Wars nerd hat on:

He was looking for the first Jedi temple and both camps suspected / knew this information.

So the 'map to Luke' is the map to the ancient Jedi temple. The bad guys and good guys care about Luke not the old tree with old books that is why they use the other phrasing that got some confused it seems.

More 'proof' for the naysayers is in the fact that both factions had pieces of the map already from the Empire records.. a map that predates Luke's journey by a long time.

 

[One MMA Fan]

saw someone come up with the theory R2 sneaked out the data, and that feels pretty good considering both films rather gloss over this gap.

Why a theory ?

R2-D2 displayed it at the end.. the little bugger had it from all that Death Star action he got:

Those sweet Imperial Records had been plundered.

 

[ShinkanPo]

I saw someone come up with the theory R2 sneaked out the data, and that feels pretty good considering both films rather gloss over this gap. I loathe the narrative of TFA because there were so many gaps and unanswered questions.

But how did that old man in Jakul got the other part of the map? And who the hell is that man?

TFA, has not aged well imo,

 

[D3THRONED]

Except he didn't.

thanks for posting D3THRONED



it's all in good fun but sometimes I can't help myself..



Bam Star Wars nerd hat on:

He was looking for the first Jedi temple and both camps suspected / knew this information.

So the 'map to Luke' is the map to the ancient Jedi temple. The bad guys and good guys care about Luke not the old tree with old books that is why they use the other phrasing that got some confused it seems.

More 'proof' for the naysayers is in the fact that both factions had pieces of the map already from the Empire records.. a map that predates Luke's journey by a long time.

He gave san tekka part of the map dude.

 

[D3THRONED]

But how did that old man in Jakul got the other part of the map? And who the hell is that man?

TFA, has not aged well imo,

Got it from Luke.

 

[Mike]

One thing that's been annoying in these conversations, is the constant assertion that the people that don't like the movie are some tiny but vocal group of "haters"

No. The movie has an audience score of 46% on rotten tomatoes. That is abysmal. A lot of reviewers in both the movie and game industries are paid shills now, so audience scores and independent YouTube reviews are more important than ever. This movie is a turkey that a lot of the audience HATED, and THAT is why audience scores are low and the movie had a HUGE drop off in ticket sales right away.