STAR WARS: EPISODE IX (Rumored Title: BALANCE OF THE FORCE)

[Harbour]

He's not the writer... just the director. All the hardcore trek fans? I don't know what you mean by hardcore but I have seen every episode of every rendition of star trek produced.

He wrote the Star Wars ones, but not those 2 Star Trek movies. They were done by infamous hacks Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci.

Abrams also wrote the screeplay to Armageddon.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Vader was a bad guy

Thats all we needed to know in the 70's

The 70s gave us Cpt. Quint, Travis Bickle, Michael and Vito Corleone, Sal Tessio, Hyman Roth, Sonny Wortzik... It was a decade of complex villains, antagonists and antiheroes.

 

[Madmick]

And Hilary won the Popular Vote. She still isn't President, and Force Awakins still isn't a good Star Wars movie.

But it's acclaimed.

Words have meanings.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

work on the script for the movie, which is the supposed end to the Skywalker Saga.

What's this?

1st I've heard of the Skywalker Saga being considered to end. What's the source for this? or is it just a guess by the guy who wrote the article?

I don't doubt it's the end of Luke... but not the Skywalkers.

 

[sickc0d3r]

In the orginal three films though its not like Vader had masses of screentime devoted to building him up is it?

I think the problem with Abrams film is that his unoriginality in lifting so much from the originals ment he was left trying to make a different picture with the same jigsaw pieces. In the originals these elements were created to tell the story most effectively, in Abrams film though he's trying to recycle similar elements to tell a different story and they simply don't fit much of the time.

Vader didn't need masses of buildup in the originals because his being Luke's father explained his motivation to us very well, a son killing his father on the other hand is something that needs a lot more explanation to be effective that we didn't get.

I think the issue is that TFA from the outset was the first installment of a trilogy, and what JJ created was an opening act with more than its share of knots to untie in the sequels. ANH at the time had to stand on its own.

 

[moreorless87]

I think the issue is that TFA from the outset was the first installment of a trilogy, and what JJ created was an opening act with more than its share of knots to untie in the sequels. ANH at the time had to stand on its own.

Again this isn't the way good cinema should be made, you look at something like Fellowship of the Ring for example and the drama within it is self contained even though its the start of a larger story.

To me its just cheap and lazy screen writing leaving the hard work to someone else down the line.

 

[Hyperglide]

Episode 7 sucked balls. And I think 8 and 9 will suck as well. Rogue one was a good flick.

You are reaching..

I won't say Rogue One is a good movie but I was able to sit through it a second time and not be bored. TFA I still have not been able to finish since I saw it in theatres.

 

[sickc0d3r]

Again this isn't the way good cinema should be made, you look at something like Fellowship of the Ring for example and the drama within it is self contained even though its the start of a larger story.

To me its just cheap and lazy screen writing leaving the hard work to someone else down the line.

Perhaps, but imo Kylo's was the most compelling and well acted story line of the bunch. He came across as a head case with a ton of power, low self esteem, temper issues, a famous absentee father, and a legendary evil grandpa to worship in his place (with a little manipulation from Snoke). If he was living in 21st century Earth he'd be a good candidate for a school shooting spree. His killing of Han just served to drive home how emotionally unstable and motivated he really is.

Edit: Fellowship isn't a great comparison, either, because TFA has 6 previous movies from which to understand the lore and set precedent. We KNOW his family line and what the dark side can do to them. We already have an idea that some childhood trauma is probably a motivation for Ren.

 

[Drain Bamage]

Reaching for what? Im saying if theres a series of movies you dont like, why watch them? Its not rocket science. I dont like Transformers movies, so I dont watch them.

Its like somebody taking whatever your favorite franchise is and sells it out to some mega corporation whos only interest is money

George Lucas, for better or worse, IS Star Wars, we all know that

How are the Disney movies anything but high budget fan fiction if the guy who created it, and the sole mind behind the universe, is no longer involved?

 

[moreorless87]

Perhaps, but imo Kylo's was the most compelling and well acted story line of the bunch. He came across as a head case with a ton of power, low self esteem, temper issues, a famous absentee father, and a legendary evil grandpa to worship in his place (with a little manipulation from Snoke). If he was living in 21st century Earth he'd be a good candidate for a school shooting spree. His killing of Han just served to drive home how emotionally unstable and motivated he really is.

Edit: Fellowship isn't a great comparison, either, because TFA has 6 previous movies from which to understand the lore and set precedent. We KNOW his family line and what the dark side can do to them. We already have an idea that some childhood trauma is probably a motivation for Ren.

I would actually agree Kylo was the best story in TFA as Rey and Finn were pretty much just audience avatars on a Star Wars theme park ride but he could have been a lot better with some real motivation.

I think Fellowship is an excellent comparison, that film might not have had the history of SW but it establishes the pull of the ring just as we already knew of the pull of the darkside yet it doesn't just depend on this for Boromirs fall at the climax, he's given a strong motivation besides purely wanting power.

 

[Bob Gray]

Its like somebody taking whatever your favorite franchise is and sells it out to some mega corporation whos only interest is money

George Lucas, for better or worse, IS Star Wars, we all know that

How are the Disney movies anything but high budget fan fiction if the guy who created it, and the sole mind behind the universe, is no longer involved?

No idea what that has to with what I said, but I'll respond.

Lucas is indeed the creator of the IP and deserves the lions share of credit in that regard. But I wouldn't go so far as to say he's the sole mind behind the universe. Far from it. The original trilogy, especially, was a product of far more people than only Lucas, who wasn't the screenwriter or director of Empire or Return. When he was the sole creator with 100% creative control, we got the prequels.

I'm sorry to inform you, Lucas' decisions were all about money, too. It's why RoTJ ended up having Ewoks over Wookiees, and why Lucas refused to kill off any of the characters because he was worried it would affect toy sales.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Its like somebody taking whatever your favorite franchise is and sells it out to some mega corporation whos only interest is money

George Lucas, for better or worse, IS Star Wars, we all know that

How are the Disney movies anything but high budget fan fiction if the guy who created it, and the sole mind behind the universe, is no longer involved?

I don't get this point of view. However you could just accept it as "Expanded universe" on steroids. (or dick pills )

I agree that Disney bought the franchise & is making these movies in order to profit... but that doesn't mean that they don't have good stories to tell or that they can't pull off an established mythology without the original creator. They gotta keep pleasing the fans to keep making money after all... & obviously Lucas isn't completely innocent from trying to make a buck with them either.

It's so obvious that the mythology can continue without it's original creator that I don't really even know how to comment on that other than to just to say that it can & has expanded through other avenues the entire time Star Wars has been around. Many parts of the "Expanded Universe" were well accepted without Lucas being a part of it.

This is just another version of the "Expanded Universe" except that we get one of the world's greatest movie making companies behind the wheel with an insanely large budget. Seems pretty positive imo. Hell if George waz done with it... fair enough... great idea to sell it to someone who will do something with it.

Overall though... lets just give the trilogy a chance before condemning thingz too harshly. A lot of the resistance of this thread is mostly people jumping the gun because there was a lot of plot left un-told. I personally enjoy that part of it & don't mind waiting for the story to unfold. Keeps it interesting.

The first Star Wars had to be a stand alone film. It might of been the only one made... so they had to make it a complete story within itself. We have the luxury now of being able to tell the story across several movies... so the 1st one just left a lot of unanswered questions that in my opinion are making a lot of people over-react to. Lets let this thing play out & just enjoy the ride.

 

[method115]

Abrams has I think shown more ability in terms of directing action cinema, there is some decent stuff buried in TFA and Trek were as Jurassic World is pretty bland thoughout for me.

My main issue with TFA was they borrowed to much from the original movie. Branch out into your own story line you don't have to repeat everything they did.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

My main issue with TFA was they borrowed to much from the original movie. Branch out into your own story line you don't have to repeat everything they did.

I do understand this point of view. However, they didn't copy it exactly. This thread has blown up the fact that Kylo is a wuss compared to G-pa. So that's very much different. You still have the behind the scenes ruler (Sideous / Snoke) in both but the face of the BIG BAD... (Vader / Kylo) is a very much different story.

Just wanted to point that out... & I think they will expand the story in a much different direction moving forward... but the first movie had to play it a bit safe I think. Moving forward we will see... but I hold faith that they will answer the plot gaps opened up in the first as well as expand the story in a completely different direction.

It's all ready been hinted at in the teaser with the Whills supposedly being shown & Luke saying the Jedi must end. They're going to create a new mythology of the middle way & I expect them to show some real BIG BAD power like we've never seen before in the coming movies. I want to see Luke with some BIG BAD power as well... but he will be slightly balanced to decency instead of homicide of innocents. Still killing... but that slight edge in motivation is a big deal.

I think a big turn off for Ep 7 for a lot of people is just that BIG BAD wasn't omious & BIG BAD enough. I expect that to get remedied... & then we'll all have more satisfaction with the new movies.

 

[One MMA Fan]

What's this?

1st I've heard of the Skywalker Saga being considered to end. What's the source for this? or is it just a guess by the guy who wrote the article?

I don't doubt it's the end of Luke... but not the Skywalkers.

I'm sure it's a mistake on the part of who ever wrote that article.

Disney / Lucas Film only said official things like "the Skywalker saga" but never ever anything about ending, it will be a spoiler they aren't dumb it's just a mistake from the article.

 

[Drain Bamage]

No idea what that has to with what I said, but I'll respond.

Lucas is indeed the creator of the IP and deserves the lions share of credit in that regard. But I wouldn't go so far as to say he's the sole mind behind the universe. Far from it. The original trilogy, especially, was a product of far more people than only Lucas, who wasn't the screenwriter or director of Empire or Return. When he was the sole creator with 100% creative control, we got the prequels.

I'm sorry to inform you, Lucas' decisions were all about money, too. It's why RoTJ ended up having Ewoks over Wookiees, and why Lucas refused to kill off any of the characters because he was worried it would affect toy sales.

He told them directors of Empire and ROTJ what they could and could not do.

 

[Drain Bamage]

I don't get this point of view. However you could just accept it as "Expanded universe" on steroids. (or dick pills )

I agree that Disney bought the franchise & is making these movies in order to profit... but that doesn't mean that they don't have good stories to tell or that they can't pull off an established mythology without the original creator. They gotta keep pleasing the fans to keep making money after all... & obviously Lucas isn't completely innocent from trying to make a buck with them either.

It's so obvious that the mythology can continue without it's original creator that I don't really even know how to comment on that other than to just to say that it can & has expanded through other avenues the entire time Star Wars has been around. Many parts of the "Expanded Universe" were well accepted without Lucas being a part of it.

This is just another version of the "Expanded Universe" except that we get one of the world's greatest movie making companies behind the wheel with an insanely large budget. Seems pretty positive imo. Hell if George waz done with it... fair enough... great idea to sell it to someone who will do something with it.

Overall though... lets just give the trilogy a chance before condemning thingz too harshly. A lot of the resistance of this thread is mostly people jumping the gun because there was a lot of plot left un-told. I personally enjoy that part of it & don't mind waiting for the story to unfold. Keeps it interesting.

The first Star Wars had to be a stand alone film. It might of been the only one made... so they had to make it a complete story within itself. We have the luxury now of being able to tell the story across several movies... so the 1st one just left a lot of unanswered questions that in my opinion are making a lot of people over-react to. Lets let this thing play out & just enjoy the ride.

What does this have to do with my point that Star Wars being yearly releases cheapens the series?

What makes football awesome? Only 16 games, and only in Sundays. It makes things pivotal.

 

[JAEGERX]

But it's acclaimed.

Words have meanings.

well, words do have meaning, but if the truth behind the words is a stiknking pile of horse shit and lies, there are not words to fix it.

 

[moreorless87]

My main issue with TFA was they borrowed to much from the original movie. Branch out into your own story line you don't have to repeat everything they did.

Again I think the problem is Abrams was borrowing heavily from ANH and a bit from ESB without really working those elements into his own story very successfully.

I mean in ANH for example the Deathstar makes perfect sense both as the villians castle to rescue the princess from and the ultimate challenge for the hero to face. In TFA though Starkiller Base just seems shoehorned in to me, not obviously connected with the plot about finding Luke nore with the stories of the lead characters.

Han Solo as well to me seems like a bit of a cheap reversion to his character from ANH rather than a natural progression or indeed what the story needed. I think the character should have ended up much more in a mentor kind of role yet by reverting him to hung ho smuggler the potential for this was largely killed off and they had to introduce Maz instead in rather clunky fashion to fill that role.

I suspect that's also why Luke didn't feature in the film until the end. Unlike Han he is a character who it would be impossible to believably revert to his state in the originals films, you need to show development yet rewriting a loved character like this is obviously a challenge, one Abrams with his safe style was not willing to take. So he basically took the low hanging fruit with Rey meeting Luke for his film and left the actual legwork of developing Luke to someone else.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

What does this have to do with my point that Star Wars being yearly releases cheapens the series?

What makes football awesome? Only 16 games, and only in Sundays. It makes things pivotal.

I'm a bit confused here as your post I was replying to didn't mention anything about "yearly releases"

Here is the post I was responding too below... which you explained that Disney's motivation is money, & you asked how the franchise can continue without it's originator (Lucas) involved. That is what I was replying to.

Its like somebody taking whatever your favorite franchise is and sells it out to some mega corporation whos only interest is money

George Lucas, for better or worse, IS Star Wars, we all know that

How are the Disney movies anything but high budget fan fiction if the guy who created it, and the sole mind behind the universe, is no longer involved?

Just for the record... here was my response.

I don't get this point of view. However you could just accept it as "Expanded universe" on steroids. (or dick pills )

I agree that Disney bought the franchise & is making these movies in order to profit... but that doesn't mean that they don't have good stories to tell or that they can't pull off an established mythology without the original creator. They gotta keep pleasing the fans to keep making money after all... & obviously Lucas isn't completely innocent from trying to make a buck with them either.

It's so obvious that the mythology can continue without it's original creator that I don't really even know how to comment on that other than to just to say that it can & has expanded through other avenues the entire time Star Wars has been around. Many parts of the "Expanded Universe" were well accepted without Lucas being a part of it.

This is just another version of the "Expanded Universe" except that we get one of the world's greatest movie making companies behind the wheel with an insanely large budget. Seems pretty positive imo. Hell if George waz done with it... fair enough... great idea to sell it to someone who will do something with it.

Overall though... lets just give the trilogy a chance before condemning thingz too harshly. A lot of the resistance of this thread is mostly people jumping the gun because there was a lot of plot left un-told. I personally enjoy that part of it & don't mind waiting for the story to unfold. Keeps it interesting.

The first Star Wars had to be a stand alone film. It might of been the only one made... so they had to make it a complete story within itself. We have the luxury now of being able to tell the story across several movies... so the 1st one just left a lot of unanswered questions that in my opinion are making a lot of people over-react to. Lets let this thing play out & just enjoy the ride.