Sprints, what better: 5x400 metres or 5x800?

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Italianissimo, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. LongDongSilver

    LongDongSilver Brown Belt

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    do it all baby .. 100's, 400's, 800's, and 5000's

    don't sleep on the 5000's !! lots and lots of 5000's !! high steady pace !!
     
  2. nhbfan8080

    nhbfan8080 Black Belt

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    The WR is 1:40.91 in the 2012 Olympics but it sounds like some Sherdog posters could beat it fairly easily if they concentrate only on sprinting since they are lifting weights, eating for mass, training UFC and can still bust out a sub-50 for the first 400m.
     
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  3. LatFlare

    LatFlare EADC

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    @therealdope is busting it in training on the reg
     
  4. Samuel Reynoso

    Samuel Reynoso Orange Belt

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    Yes they are. I get why people say they aren't. You never hit top speed in a well run 400m, and defiantly not in a 800m. But you can keep your science. So it shall be written, a sprint is 800m and anything under.
     
  5. NurseKnuckles

    NurseKnuckles My Mom's stronger than you belt

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    A sprint by definition is a run at full speed over a short distance. There is a reason they refer to it as the 800m and not the 800m sprint. Although you are running the fastest you can over 800m you still have to adjust your effort. Sprint is maximal effort.
     
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  6. miaou

    miaou barely keeping it together

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    Here is the main problem with this thread:

    The OP has no idea why he has his athletes do 5x400 or 5x800 m, other than because it is hard and gets them tired.

    The fact that he calls them sprints (instead of high-intensity intervals), and is using sciency-sounding terms like "aerobic resistance", is just another indication that he has no idea what he is on about.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
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  7. aries

    aries Red Belt

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    I think 800m repeats are a nice way to practice a sustained high intensity effort for a time that is relevant to the time of a round. If you say you can do the 800m repeats in 2.5 to 3 minutes that's pretty close to working hard (continuously) for a whole boxing round of 3 mins. 400m repeats are also good as you'll be working for a decent amount of time roughly 90 seconds. That way you get better at sustaining high outputs for longer periods of time. If you can sustain near sprint speed for 400m then you'll be a pretty well conditioned athlete.
     
  8. Samuel Reynoso

    Samuel Reynoso Orange Belt

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    Yeah, I get that. If you want to define a sprint as flat out with no pacing then I can't argue. But I think a more useful definition is a pace where your legs are the point of failure. I like that because you can feel the difference between putting yourself in a huge oxygen debt, and burning your legs up. That's the difference that will matter in most sports.
     
  9. miaou

    miaou barely keeping it together

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    Sprinting is running at or near top speed, using the ATP/PCr energy system as the main source of energy. That wouldn't be more than 30-35 seconds for most people.

    When you are significantly slowed down by acidosis (when your legs are "burning"), you are no longer sprinting. It may be maximal intensity, but it is not near top speed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
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  10. Samuel Reynoso

    Samuel Reynoso Orange Belt

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    As an event, or as a time trial this is a semantic argument people have had a lot. I come down on the "it's a sprint side" because I think it's a test of speed, and less of a test of endurance. In the context of training I actually agree with you guys. When I write 'sprints' in a training plan it means top-end-speed, or speed-endurance.

    I'm going to leave it at that because I don't feel I've been adding anything to the discussion.

    Here's the best video I've seen on how to run your best 400m to make up for the semantic argument.
     
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  11. miaou

    miaou barely keeping it together

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    I watched the first 2.5 minutes of that video. Nothing he said really relates to the topic at hand.

    I stopped watching when he said the following:
    "You're not going to get up to full speed in 5 steps, I hope, or the weight room should probably be something you should focus on more than anything else."

    That seems patently false to me. Given that the weight room work helps those first five steps the most, if you could get to full speed in just 5 steps that means your acceleration is incredible and the weight room should probably be the last thing on your list.
     
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  12. Samuel Reynoso

    Samuel Reynoso Orange Belt

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    I was trying to say that it's acceptable to call the 400 and the even the 800 a sprint. I've given up on that because theirs a high probability of doing more harm then good by muddying the waters. You can just call the 400 and 800 the 400 and 800. If anyone wants to put them in their own category then I thought it would be helpful to post a video of what that category looks like, how it should feel, and how to think about the distance to help one assess what could be improved.

    It's a mute point anyway because a 400m or 800m time-trial isn't something you would build a S&C program around. I could only see programming it in as a barometer a few time, and at the very peak of training as a gut check. OP was talking about 400 repeats, and 800 repeats which are completely different, so maybe I'm off topic, but it's important not to do a bastardization of the 2 types of efforts.

    To your other point, he's being hyperbolic. What he's speaking to is a hypothetical athlete that has the muscle mass of an 8 year old girl, defiantly a distance runner, who is so slow that you can't visually tell the difference between anything you tell him/her to do. It's not true that they're at out of the acceleration phase, but the acceleration after that isn't apparent. Although, it might just be the case that those types need to be coached to keep their head down and drive, so they can learn just how much more acceleration they have left to do before transitioning to running upright. So it's not so much that their done accelerating at 5 steps, but they always transition to running upright at 5 steps even when it's not appropriate.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
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  13. JauntyAngle

    JauntyAngle International man of mystery

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    Enjoying the conversation, but I am going to be a dick and say: it's 'moot point'.

    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/moot--point

    A moot was a public assembly for debating things, term comes from Anglo Saxon times. Has never meant 'silent'.

    I'm also jumping in every time I see someone write 'persay' instead of 'per se'.
     
  14. Samuel Reynoso

    Samuel Reynoso Orange Belt

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    Thanks for saving me from doing that IRL.
     
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  15. beat...people...up?

    beat...people...up? Yellow Belt

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    I'm glad people here know the difference between moot and mute.

    I have to say, as a former track runner, I was a little bit disappointed to see that my running fitness doesn't exactly keep me from gassing out when I am grappling. -_- disappointing. Increasingly I think endurance for grappling is specific to grappling. Maybe because it's more upper body?

    Or maybe I would be even more pathetic if I didnt have a middle distance runner's training background. Idk.
     
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  16. maximus__

    maximus__ Blue Belt

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    Good Answer. Long sustained work for 3-5 mins in the 75-90% threshold.

    This is how I approach them but I am a tactical athlete and hobbyist grappler second. OP doesn't know why he makes his athletes "sprint " but it is a valuable component of basebuilding or GPP training. Drop the sprints and get more specific before competitions and fights and it's all good.
     
  17. Italianissimo

    Italianissimo Yellow Belt

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    Who said I do not know why I make athletes do sprints? What counts it is the level of cardio they have during the match. They have. Problem solved
     
  18. Chungungo

    Chungungo Getting some snow

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    Totally, many of us ex runners found that.
    I do them that way and for judo is great.
     
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  19. maximus__

    maximus__ Blue Belt

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    Fair enough if that's what you believe. Your above explanations and the responses at the start of the thread show differently. That is fine.

    There are definitely worse ways to train, so you are ahead of the curve. I enjoy these type of sessions paired with calisthenic in between laps, in particular pullups and or dips.
    Though as stated earlier this is for a different reason to my grappling training.

    Good luck mate.
     
  20. miaou

    miaou barely keeping it together

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    What is "aerobic resistance", again?

     

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