South Africa Votes to Confiscate White Minority's Land Without Compensation

[58miles]

1. One lesson to be learned here is that if you reform an ugly social evil like apartheid, you will be punished for it and none of the people crying for social justice will care at all for justice in your case.

2. Mandela seemed to always try to follow a moderate course, but since his death, South Africa has made a beeline back to government backed racial oppression.

Apartheid should never have existed and doing something away with something that any civilized human being should recognize is evil is isn't always going to get you a pat on the back.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Apartheid should never have existed and doing something away with something that any civilized human being should recognize is evil is isn't always going to get you a pat on the back.

1. I agree that apartheid was evil.
2. I think it is very good that the white minority abolished apartheid.
3. Comparing getting a pat on the back to not being murdered because of one's race is creepy.
4. What is happening right now in South Africa seems at least as bad as apartheid. The main reason people care about one and not the other is because they are racists who are judging the situation by the race of those involved.
5. Given the lack of international support for the unjust plight of whites in South Africa proportionate to the international support for the unjust plight of blacks in South Africa, perhaps it would have been better for white South Africans to have kept apartheid in place. It may even have been better for black South Africans, though that remains to be seen.

 

[58miles]

1. I agree that apartheid was evil.
2. I think it is very good that the white minority abolished apartheid.
3. Comparing getting a pat on the back to not being murdered because of one's race is creepy.
4. What is happening right now in South Africa seems at least as bad as apartheid. The main reason people care about one and not the other is because they are racists who are judging the situation by the race of those involved.
5. Given the lack of international support for the unjust plight of whites in South Africa proportionate to the international support for the unjust plight of blacks in South Africa, perhaps it would have been better for white South Africans to have kept apartheid in place. It may even have been better for black South Africans, though that remains to be seen.

The farm attacks that are going on in South Africa are not about race it's about criminals who are attacking easy marks. The failure of the police to get those attacks under control is about police incompetence and corruption not race and besides the blacks who work on those farms are also attacked. As always the crime problems in South Africa affects the poor most.

Please try to explain how South Africa of 2018 is as bad as Apartheid South Africa. Please give examples and please try not to make a fool of yourself.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

The farm attacks that are going on in South Africa are not about race it's about criminals who are attacking easy marks. The failure of the police to get those attacks under control is about police incompetence and corruption not race and besides the blacks who work on those farms are also attacked. As always the crime problems in South Africa affects the poor most.

Please try to explain how South Africa of 2018 is as bad as Apartheid South Africa. Please give examples and please try not to make a fool of yourself.

Nonsense. Of course they are racially motivated, and of course the attacks happen with impunity because they are supported by the government.

The National Assembly just voted for expropriation of white owned farmland without compensation, in other words, race based theft by the government. Julius Malema, the radical who raised the issue in the legislature, notoriously commented last year that he was “not calling for the slaughter of white people — at least for now.”

Any person who hates racism sees the issue clearly for what it is. However, many racists find it convenient to use anti-racist rhetoric when their side is being oppressed while in principle caring nought for racial injustice. You can find plenty of racists on both the right and the left in America who use the language of racial oppression when their side is perceived as being oppressed who ignore alleged oppression when it happens to others. This certainly seems to be the case in South Africa.

 

[58miles]

Nonsense. Of course they are racially motivated, and of course the attacks happen with impunity because they are supported by the government.

The National Assembly just voted for expropriation of white owned farmland without compensation, in other words, race based theft by the government. Julius Malema, the radical who raised the issue in the legislature, notoriously commented last year that he was “not calling for the slaughter of white people — at least for now.”

Any person who hates racism sees the issue clearly for what it is. However, many racists find it convenient to use anti-racist rhetoric when their side is being oppressed while in principle caring nought for racial injustice. You can find plenty of racists on both the right and the left in America who use the language of racial oppression when their side is perceived as being oppressed who ignore alleged oppression when it happens to others. This certainly seems to be the case in South Africa.

Black South African farmers are victims of violence at a higher rate than white south African farmers. Like I said before these are criminals looking for easy marks.

The issue of seizing of farmland from white farmers I oppose but if they are willing to sell they should be paid market price for their land. I don't like Julius Malema he on the fringe and reminds me of that fraud Bernie Sanders.

Besides you still have not given me all of the reasons why Apartheid South Africa is better than post Apartheid South Africa. I'm waiting.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Black South African farmers are victims of violence at a higher rate than white south African farmers. Like I said before these are criminals looking for easy marks.

The issue of seizing of farmland from white farmers I oppose but if they are willing to sell they should be paid market price for their land. I don't like Julius Malema he on the fringe and reminds me of that fraud Bernie Sanders.

Oh, I can agree that there are reasons for violence against farmers that are unrelated to race. But the expropriation of land without compensation by the National Assembly seems clearly related to race. Do you disagree?

When the leader of an influential party says he isn't calling for the massacre of whites yet, that indicates a strong governmental animus toward white farmers. We saw a similar phenomenon in Zimbabwe, where the government allowed thugs to do their dirty work of chasing white farmers off the land, resulting in great ruin for the country as a whole beyond just race based oppression of the white farmers.

 

[58miles]

Oh, I can agree that there are reasons for violence against farmers that are unrelated to race. But the expropriation of land without compensation by the National Assembly seems clearly related to race. Do you disagree?

When the leader of an influential party says he isn't calling for the massacre of whites yet, that indicates a strong governmental animus toward white farmers. We saw a similar phenomenon in Zimbabwe, where the government allowed thugs to do their dirty work of chasing white farmers off the land, resulting in great ruin for the country as a whole beyond just race based oppression of the white farmers.

I already said that the South African government should buy the land from willing sellers and not seize the land.


I'm still waiting for all those reasons Apartheid South Africa is better than Post Apartheid South Africa.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I already said that the South African government should buy the land from willing sellers and not seize the land.


I'm still waiting for all those reason Apartheid South Africa is better than Post Apartheid South Africa.

For whites, the reasons are clear, no? And that was my point. Because of things like forced a massive increase in violence against white farmers confiscation of white owned farmland without compensation, whites in retrospect would have been wiser to retain apartheid, even though ending apartheid was the morally right thing to do. Therefore the lack of international pressure on South Africa proportionate to the international movement that put pressure on the apartheid regime (my family participated in this boycott), a perverse incentive is being created.

The reason I said time may tell whether it was better for blacks has to do with prediction's about the large scale collapse of South African agriculture, a phenomenon we have already seen in Zimbabwe. I have no idea whether that will happen, and I hope it does not. But it is certainly plausible as it has recently happened nearby in similar circumstances.

 

[58miles]

The South African blacks land was expropriated by the Apartheid South African government starting in 1910 when they passed a series of laws reserving the vast majority of the country for the white minority, which then made up about a fifth of the population. Starting in 1948, under the National Party’s system of apartheid, millions of blacks were forcibly removed from their land and dumped in “homelands” Shouldn't those blacks who had their land expropriated during that period be compensated? Or is it the responsibility of the SA blacks despite the fact their land was just taken out from under their feet to simply forget about it and just move on?

 

[MilesAbove]

It's funny cuz white people don't like when history turns on them.

 

[The ScorpioN]

The South African blacks land was expropriated by the Apartheid South African government starting in 1910 when they passed a series of laws reserving the vast majority of the country for the white minority, which then made up about a fifth of the population. Starting in 1948, under the National Party’s system of apartheid, millions of blacks were forcibly removed from their land and dumped in “homelands” Shouldn't those blacks who had their land expropriated during that period be compensated? Or is it the responsibility of the SA blacks despite the fact their land was just taken out from under their feet to simply forget about it and just move on?

Those are not the same blacks. Not every black belongs to the same group of blacks, you racist.

Primitive tribalism rears its ugly head again.

 

[58miles]

Those are not the same blacks. Not every black belongs to the same group of blacks, you racist.

Primitive tribalism rears its ugly head again.

These are not the same blacks? The blacks and their blood descendants deserve compensation for the land that was stolen and black SA also deserve the opportunity to own land after being deprived of that right for so long. The whites who were sold land that was expropriated from blacks tarting in 1910 should either be required to sell that land or pay an extra tax on the land that they own.

 

[grihenrumet]

These are not the same blacks? The blacks and their blood descendants deserve compensation for the land that was stolen and black SA also deserve the opportunity to own land after being deprived of that right for so long. The whites who were sold land that was expropriated from blacks tarting in 1910 should either be required to sell that land or pay an extra tax on the land that they own.

Stolen property aren't mostly Blacks there immigrants ? were'nt the original inhabitants nomads? but they maybe can't claim it since they were traveller's ie nomards ,Hmm just wait till China takes all of Africa Whitey won't be able to help the africans

 

[58miles]

Stolen property aren't mostly Blacks there immigrants ? were'nt the original inhabitants nomads? but they maybe can't claim it since they were traveller's ie nomards ,Hmm just wait till China takes all of Africa Whitey won't be able to help the africans

The Khoisan who were there originally were hunter gatherers and later on waves of farmers showed up in SA both groups were black.

Whitey already took all of Africa before and after that experience I'm not sure China could be much worse.

 

[horc00]

It's weird though. It seems the Chinese have a way of dealing with africans that work better than how westerners deal with them.
I'm not saying it's a good way or anything but it works for them. They don't spend time building schools or other bullshit to help the local populace nor do they impose environmental concerns.
They're straight up no bullshit. We come here, we build stuff, we take your minerals. You can still have your slaves, you can still burn all your forests and you can still employ kids. We don't care.

I've read an african on Quora talking about how he prefers the chinese because there are no strings attached, while westerners impose so much stuff.

I agree with that poster on Quora the west had the chance to be an honest broker with Africa and they blew that opportunity so why not deal with China? Why keep doing business with the west when all they seem to be interested in is giving Africa the of the stick.

You have any idea how fond the west is of employing Africans? Besides China are much more honest brokers than the west has ever been to Africans. Which is why more and more African countries are preferring to do business with China than the west. Btw I am not stupid I of course realize the way the Chinese view Africans generally.

On the issue of incompetent governments in Africa western nations and corporations are in many instances the very ones propping up those incompetent governments.

He is not entirely wrong, especially pointing out silliness like Obama's concern for LGBTQ in Africa (or Oprah's leadership academy for girls) not aligning with anything that Africa actually needs.

But he paints a very optimistic picture.
Western investment does comes with moral strings attached ("defend human rights") but Chinese investment comes with its own strings ("spend this money on only Chinese goods and services"). Chinese investment in and engagement with African economies has already resulted in the collapse of African industries and the net loss of jobs as african business simply cannot compete with what is often state-backed chinese industry.

The chinese way of dealing with Africa is pretty similar to the west's: "you're desperate and weak, and you have resources we need."
It'll work until it doesn't.

ALL China investments come with strings attached.

The entire One Belt One Road initiative and railways linking developing countries to China is an excellent way to transport resources back to China.

One reason so many developing countries are struggling is because of corruption and no one knows how to manipulate a corrupt government official more than the Chinese. And when the government pockets are filled with Chinese money, they will refrain from playing racial politics against the Chinese.

 

[58miles]

ALL China investments come with strings attached.

The entire One Belt One Road initiative and railways linking developing countries to China is an excellent way to transport resources back to China.

One reason so many developing countries are struggling is because of corruption and no one knows how to manipulate a corrupt government official more than the Chinese. And when the government pockets are filled with Chinese money, they will refrain from playing racial politics against the Chinese.

Africans are for sure gonna get rickrolled by China if they aren't extra careful but Africans look at the situation this way " If we are gonna get rickrolled by somebody at least it was our own choice that it be China, with the Europeans we weren't allowed any choice at all."

 

[Joe265]

Sounds like they are getting Native Americaned.