Something we did not see much at ADCC

[mataleaos]

One thing we did not see much at ADCC that we usually see a lot of in no-gi grappling is rolling kimuras and front headlocks to pass the guard or get better positions.

In ADCC it looks like athletes are generally using a more disciplined and less risky approach by trying more conventional passing when they end up on top. At the rules meeting this year they said they have a new rule where if you're on top and you attack a submission and you end up on bottom that you will not be penalized and the other athlete won't get sweep points.

If they keep this rule do you think athletes will be less worried about sacrificing top position to go for submissions? I think it's cool that they introduced this rule but it also seems like many athletes did not know until the rules meeting?

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

I think a large part of it is that guys are hip to those rolling submissions now and do not give many openings. I remember a couple of years ago when I started working the rolling kimura into my game, I was hitting it in training left and right. Nowadays I rarely catch it because people are protecting their arms and heads.

Also, it's not necessarily a big part of everyone's game. In a high level competition you go with your A game, and if that's not it then you're not gonna see it. I'd imagine that it's not the A game of a lot of guys who are used to IBJJF competitions where you would lose points for that if you came out on bottom. Their A game is going to be pass, pass, pass.

Just some thoughts.

 

[mataleaos]

I think a large part of it is that guys are hip to those rolling submissions now and do not give many openings. I remember a couple of years ago when I started working the rolling kimura into my game, I was hitting it in training left and right. Nowadays I rarely catch it because people are protecting their arms and heads.

Also, it's not necessarily a big part of everyone's game. In a high level competition you go with your A game, and if that's not it then you're not gonna see it. I'd imagine that it's not the A game of a lot of guys who are used to IBJJF competitions where you would lose points for that if you came out on bottom. Their A game is going to be pass, pass, pass.

Just some thoughts.

Makes a lot of sense.

I see your point. I actually lost a match early this year because I went for a rolling kimura and the guy was baiting me to do it and as soon as I rolled he was ready for it. And come to think of it I don't get caught with it nearly as much as I used to.

But I still think people besides the very very best will always leave their elbows and heads open. But yeah I guess at a high level if it's not someone's A game then we probably won't see it.

 

[rmongler]

Im tellin you guys; ezekiel choke.

Who needs passes or leg locks or back takes when you can just pin guys and spam the same attack over and over again till it sticks while their limbs flail around uselessly?

Secret op.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Makes a lot of sense.

I see your point. I actually lost a match early this year because I went for a rolling kimura and the guy was baiting me to do it and as soon as I rolled he was ready for it. And come to think of it I don't get caught with it nearly as much as I used to.

But I still think people besides the very very best will always leave their elbows and heads open. But yeah I guess at a high level if it's not someone's A game then we probably won't see it.

You should check out Vagner Rocha's DVD "50/50 of the Arms." He presents a higher percentage, more effective alternative to the rolling kimura, which is pressuring into the knee shield and then twisting your momentum in to snatch a kimura grip. You then pressure pass with your weight on opponents head and kick out into a very dangerous finishing hub. He hit this sequence on Garry Tonon in the bronze medal match.

 

[mataleaos]

You should check out Vagner Rocha's DVD "50/50 of the Arms." He presents a higher percentage, more effective alternative to the rolling kimura, which is pressuring into the knee shield and then twisting your momentum in to snatch a kimura grip. You then pressure pass with your weight on opponents head and kick out into a very dangerous finishing hub. He hit this sequence on Garry Tonon in the bronze medal match.

I will absolutely check this out. I need to figure out something other than doing a full front roll with us ending up like 2 pencils beside each other facing opposite directions. Sometimes if they're stronger or faster they end up coming on top before I do. I like to wait for them to turn in so I can try and get the back, but I was rolling with Bill Cooper in December and he was encouraging me to just come up first or better yet do something like you described. And he said if I want the back with a safer option to just force them up onto their side with the kimura grip and take it from there.

It's frustrating because the kimura trap is one of my favorite techniques and it still works very well for me but sometimes I get caught on bottom with it even though it's such a dominant grip. I didn't start having problems with it until brown belt which means I either got worse at it or there was a weakness I've had with it that other people are exploiting.

I'll check out that Vagner set.

 

[Uchi Mata]

You should check out Vagner Rocha's DVD "50/50 of the Arms." He presents a higher percentage, more effective alternative to the rolling kimura, which is pressuring into the knee shield and then twisting your momentum in to snatch a kimura grip. You then pressure pass with your weight on opponents head and kick out into a very dangerous finishing hub. He hit this sequence on Garry Tonon in the bronze medal match.

Is that a good DVD in general? I've been playing a lot more with kimura stuff lately and haven't really found any resources I like.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Is that a good DVD in general? I've been playing a lot more with kimura stuff lately and haven't really found any resources I like.

Yes! It's based around a kimura hub position, awkwardly named 50/50 of the arms, where you're basically perpendicular to your opponent with kimura grip. This flows into many strong finishing variations, such as a weak side back take, an armbar with legs crossed over the far shoulder, and a killer reverse triangle. Vagner also shows some impressive details on finishing the standard N/S kimura and kimura from closed guard. Also a great single leg counter that you've probably seen him hit if you've seen any of his matches, especially the ones with AJ Agazarm. I got it right around the time I got my brown belt, and it definitely made my game more assertive overall, as a big common denominator in all the moves is a strong forward posture.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

You should check out Vagner Rocha's DVD "50/50 of the Arms." He presents a higher percentage, more effective alternative to the rolling kimura, which is pressuring into the knee shield and then twisting your momentum in to snatch a kimura grip. You then pressure pass with your weight on opponents head and kick out into a very dangerous finishing hub. He hit this sequence on Garry Tonon in the bronze medal match.

He hit it in the UFC as well. He's really good at using it to pass and take the back.

 

[mataleaos]

He hit it in the UFC as well. He's really good at using it to pass and take the back.

Do you remember what fight?

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

Do you remember what fight?

Pretty sure it was against Cody Mackenzie

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Pretty sure it was against Cody Mackenzie

For sure. He references that fight a bunch in the DVD.

In this match against Jonathan Satava at the ADCC trials you can see him use a passing sequence from the DVD against Satava's 1LX guard, and then right into that 50/50 of the Arms hub position where he transitions to the back. Start at 3:20

 

[mataleaos]

Pretty sure it was against Cody Mackenzie

I just watched it last night after you posted this.

Holy shit. That was awesome. He did it multiple times. To the armbar. The reverse triangle. The back. He had a deep brabo choke. He did that Sakuraba style kimura against the body lock from behind. Man he really put the heat on Cody. I didn't even know Vagner fought in the UFC before.

Thanks for pointing that out. That's instantly one of my favorite jiu-jisu displays in MMA.