Someone school me on some 10th Planet JJ

[jr jr]

against good people no gi, you will be forced to use good technique.

I agree. I never said you can't have good technique and learn only nogi. I do however contend that gi will require better technique for escapes.

This seems like the ultimate online argument by pushing people to the poles (extremes) of an argument.

 

[jack36767]

Dear Gi people, here is a friendly reply that will get deliberately misread or twisted because it doesn't align bjj propaganda and dogma but rather truth

Training only in the gi builds as many.. if not more bad habits than just training nogi

Such bad habits include:
1. An over reliance on cloth grips rather than body position and knowing how to stay "tight" without squeezing which leads to
a. Over reliance on grip strength and hanging/squeezing onto sleeves and collars rather than learning how to transition
b. Suck at keeping position on top or on the back without cloth to grab then wonder how the wrestler can keep position without gassing
c. Not knowing how to properly grip fight or clench, which turns the majority of nogi matches into slip and slide squirming fests which perpetuates it's all "scrambles" and causes people to overuse strength
d. Not learning how to get "tight" without artificial friction unless they squeeze their balls off


2. ATHLETICISM IS NOT NEGATED BY THE GI... it's just used differently and in fact strength and power often become more important to hang onto grips or break grips..
a. Also you don't have to learn how to distribute weight or pressure the same way

3. Training only in the gi gives people an artificial view of the "advantage" of being on bottom and an unrealistic view of the value of the guard without cloth or rules forcing engagement and favoring guard play

4. As far as the best guys train in gi.. I could go into a lengthy explanation but rmongler said it best

"If Lebron James takes 6months of to play volleyball.. he's still beating you in a game of HORSE"

Can't wait to hear people not actually read

 

[SummerStriker]

Not if the 185 guy has a wrestling background. In that scenario the gi is very useful to the black belt.


Anyway people tend to conflate fast pace with athleticism and a slow pace with technique.Gi grappling tends to move at a slower pace.

Then he's not spazzing. He's a trained wrestler.

 

[Thycidides]

Then he's not spazzing. He's a trained wrestler.

Exactly. This makes the gi even more valuable to the bjj guy as it gives him a tool to beat other trained people. He is relying on the gi to establish dominance and show the importance of breaking grips.

 

[sakfjgadsyukgf]

If you're ever in a street fight in Chicago in the winter time you won't think it's a gimmick. Yan Cabral trains almost exclusively in the gi. 12 of his 13 MMA wins are by submission.

I've never understood this argument. You're aware that people can, like, take the jackets off to fight, right? Like, the jacket is not glued to your body? People preparing to fight generally remove extra bulky layers to avoid getting hockey jerseyed, it takes just a second to throw your coat off.

Jake Shields is about a billion times better MMA fighter and overall grappler than Yan Cabral, and he trains no gi exclusively. You know, the guy who beat Maia in a pure grappling match, has a win over the current champion, tapped out Lawler etc. Same with Josh Barnett. When will these terrible pro-gi training arguments from 2007 disappear? It's just the same three logical fallacies repeated over and over and over....

I've lived in New England my entire life, have a whole closet full of winter clothes, and my gi is much more rugged than any of them except maybe for my heaviest winter jacket. I find it very, very hard to believe that much of the stuff you do in the gi translates to 'real world' clothing like sweaters, sweatshirts, any type of lighter jacket etc. (Also relevant, I'm a blue belt, not just theorizing about gi training)

 

[mike sherry]

I agree. I never said you can't have good technique and learn only nogi. I do however contend that gi will require better technique for escapes.

This seems like the ultimate online argument by pushing people to the poles (extremes) of an argument.

im willing to concede against the lower belts you have to use better technique in the gi than nogi to escape certain techniques due to the added friction allowing the gi grappler to get away with slightly less tight technique

 

[mattemate]

I've never understood this argument. You're aware that people can, like, take the jackets off to fight, right? Like, the jacket is not glued to your body? People preparing to fight generally remove extra bulky layers to avoid getting hockey jerseyed, it takes just a second to throw your coat off.

Jake Shields is about a billion times better MMA fighter and overall grappler than Yan Cabral, and he trains no gi exclusively. You know, the guy who beat Maia in a pure grappling match, has a win over the current champion, tapped out Lawler etc. Same with Josh Barnett. When will these terrible pro-gi training arguments from 2007 disappear? It's just the same three logical fallacies repeated over and over and over....

I've lived in New England my entire life, have a whole closet full of winter clothes, and my gi is much more rugged than any of them except maybe for my heaviest winter jacket. I find it very, very hard to believe that much of the stuff you do in the gi translates to 'real world' clothing like sweaters, sweatshirts, any type of lighter jacket etc. (Also relevant, I'm a blue belt, not just theorizing about gi training)

You train in the gi but still think it's not useful?

 

[SummerStriker]

I've never understood this argument. You're aware that people can, like, take the jackets off to fight, right? Like, the jacket is not glued to your body? People preparing to fight generally remove extra bulky layers to avoid getting hockey jerseyed, it takes just a second to throw your coat off.

Jake Shields is about a billion times better MMA fighter and overall grappler than Yan Cabral, and he trains no gi exclusively. You know, the guy who beat Maia in a pure grappling match, has a win over the current champion, tapped out Lawler etc. Same with Josh Barnett. When will these terrible pro-gi training arguments from 2007 disappear? It's just the same three logical fallacies repeated over and over and over....

I've lived in New England my entire life, have a whole closet full of winter clothes, and my gi is much more rugged than any of them except maybe for my heaviest winter jacket. I find it very, very hard to believe that much of the stuff you do in the gi translates to 'real world' clothing like sweaters, sweatshirts, any type of lighter jacket etc. (Also relevant, I'm a blue belt, not just theorizing about gi training)

100% agree.

There might be some off chance that you are going to pull spider guard on a guy in a fine wool suit, but the countless fucking hours you spent marveling over how to disrobe a man and choke him with his T-shirt had been spent on wrestling or boxing, you'd be infinitely better off.

 

[sakfjgadsyukgf]

You train in the gi but still think it's not useful?

I train in the gi on Thursdays because that's gi day at my gym- it's either do gi or don't grapple. Also I trained in it a little more frequently coming up as a white belt, just for the experience.

I don't think it's useless, it can be enjoyable and I do really enjoy gi chokes lol. That doesn't mean I have to subscribe to a bunch of logical fallacies about it being 'more technical' or that it 'improves your no gi game because athleticism blah blah blah' (I've noticed zero correlation there). Specificity is well established in exercise science, no one else on planet Earth is arguing volleyball makes your basketball game more technical or something. Also just because I enjoy occasionally training in the gi doesn't mean I can't recognize that my gi is way, way more rugged than anything people wear even in the winter, and that crossover is just unrealistic.

I mean, I do weighted pullups with my gi- I weigh 180 and I last week I did 6 with an extra 20 lbs. hanging from a belt. Go find me an article of clothing normal people wear when you can do that many pullups with 200 pounds hanging off of it. It's a specialized $150+ article of clothing, designed for one thing. It has properties that 'normal' clothing simply doesn't have, that's the whole point

 

[SummerStriker]

I train in the gi on Thursdays because that's gi day at my gym- it's either do gi or don't grapple. Also I trained in it a little more frequently coming up as a white belt, just for the experience.

I don't think it's useless, it can be enjoyable and I do really enjoy gi chokes lol. That doesn't mean I have to subscribe to a bunch of logical fallacies about it being 'more technical' or that it 'improves your no gi game because athleticism blah blah blah' (I've noticed zero correlation there). Specificity is well established in exercise science, no one else on planet Earth is arguing volleyball makes your basketball game more technical or something. Also just because I enjoy occasionally training in the gi doesn't mean I can't recognize that my gi is way, way more rugged than anything people wear even in the winter, and that crossover is just unrealistic.

I mean, I do weighted pullups with my gi- I weigh 180 and I last week I did 6 with an extra 20 lbs. hanging from a belt. Go find me an article of clothing normal people wear when you can do that many pullups with 200 pounds hanging off of it. It's a specialized $150+ article of clothing, designed for one thing. It has properties that 'normal' clothing simply doesn't have, that's the whole point

Someone should show up for gi class in street clothing and tell people that they don't mind them being torn. See what happens.

Bet you leave naked and untapped.

 

[jack36767]

Someone should show up for gi class in street clothing and tell people that they don't mind them being torn. See what happens.

Bet you leave naked and untapped.

eh now you're going a little far

 

[SummerStriker]

eh now you're going a little far

probably

 

[AndyMaBobs]

But yeah 10th Planet's pretty good if you find a good place to train it, not all the endorsed places are going to be as legit as they'd like you to think though. It's sort of hard to ensure top notch training in an already small style.