Some white belts at Mundials are incredible sandbaggers

[JJ86]

The fact is that half the competitors will lose in the first round anyways. Is it that much more frustrating to lose by a flying triangle to the division winner in the first round then losing 5-2 to someone else? I think most white/blue belts go to these big tournaments for the experience. It's a very small percentage who are either exceptionally athletically gifted or who have trained more then everyone else who have a shot at winning.

By your logic, half the competitors at the pan-ams and worlds would be outraged. Was Kron Gracie complaining about sandbagging when he lost in the first round of the black belt division at the mundials last year? No, sometimes we just lose. That's ok as long as we learn from it. I think blatant sandbaggers are gay, but I certainly don't lose sleep over them.

paraphrased Ryan Hall quote: "even the toughest blue belt in the world isn't really THAT tough"

Seriously that's just retarded.

 

[MickCollins]

Its bullpoop. First competition I ever did, I entered the beginner's bracket and my first match was against a 4 year letterman in Wrestling. He claimed to have less than 6 months grappling experience. His teammates told me not to feel bad since he was a sandbagger. Some people are just douchebags.

 

[MickCollins]

By your logic, half the competitors at the pan-ams and worlds would be outraged. Was Kron Gracie complaining about sandbagging when he lost in the first round of the black belt division at the mundials last year?

Um...dude. Think about that one again.

 

[nefti]

i didn't even know that they had white belt divisions in the mundials...

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

I say do what your heart desires...

Many fighters enter the UFC without a BB in BJJ.

Thats kind of a good point, but there are no skill levels in the UFC. If black belts were entering the beginner division..people would give funny looks.

On another note...if these guys have been wrestling for years or judo or MMA for years but enter BJJ..they get a white belt. If your a white belt you should compete as a white belt. Isn't this the same argument I was just reading about in another forum about Ari Bolden? Everyone one wants him to start from white belt and everyone wants him to compete..so if he does both of what you ask you know what you'll do...call him a sandbagger lol

I say shut up and roll..if you go against a sandbagger and lose...you don't walk out with a medal but you walk out with wisdom and get a little better. If you go against a sandbagger and win...you get both. When I took 3rd at the atama open I had only 9 months of training and I lost to only 2 guys..a guy that had 19 months of training and a guy that "almost 2 years" he said. I can't help that they started before me...I'm pretty good friends with one of them now and I'm happy to have got to compete with him..I learned a lot and still got to take home a medal.

Does it suck that people sandbag...sure. Would it be perfect if it got fixed..of course. But it hasn't yet so roll with it. (No pun intended:icon_chee)

 

[Goat Meal]

I've only read the original post. I'll go back through and read the rest of the thread later, but just wanted to say that I train with Heath Pedigo. He got his blue belt last year maybe around this time or later. He's barely ever trains anymore, but he always seemed like a nice guy.

If he did sandbag, and I'm not saying he did because I've done no investigation, Rodrigo our instructor did not know. I've heard Rodrigo tell students before that they should have enrolled in a tougher division and not give stripes out because of it. The thing is Rodrigo can't police his students. I guess some things slip through the cracks.

 

[MickCollins]

On another note...if these guys have been wrestling for years or judo or MMA for years but enter BJJ..they get a white belt. If your a white belt you should compete as a white belt. Isn't this the same argument I was just reading about in another forum about Ari Bolden? Everyone one wants him to start from white belt and everyone wants him to compete..so if he does both of what you ask you know what you'll do...call him a sandbagger lol

A lot of schools don't have belt ranks. Some schools use different grading systems. Thats why most tournaments put a timed experience listing next to the division. Like Beginner/White Belt(0-1 years), intermediate/blue(1-3 years),etc.. So a dude like the Submission 101 guy would have to compete to his level of experience.(since he claims he is a blackbelt in Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, he wouldn't be white/beginner).

 

[Matt Beitz]

that makes me nervous about starting to compete..

i don't want to run into a sandbagger.

I feel the same but unfortunately its going to happen. I have never competed in a jiu jitsu/submission grappling competition. But I have fought multiple mma events, and I believe that sand bagging takes alot more in mma than it does anywhere else. I have fought a few myself, where their coaches claimed that they would have only 2 years mma experience/training to find out they are incredible wrestlers/purple/brown belts and so forth. Unfortunately there is nothing we can realy do about it, but just train harder and train more

 

[IronMaidenfan#1]

Funny stuff about the dude who is 11-0 in MMA with 9 subs. This kind of shit has always gone on. It's like when a new guy joins the gym and says he is a blue belt after training for 1 year. You know that the fucker's really been doing it for 3.

I have a friend who's a white belt because he's never been given his blue but he's been training with me for over 4 years and he's easily a blue belt, he just hasn't had the opportunity to get graded as there are no black belts availiable to him. That is unless he goes off to a particular gym (no names) and pays a heavy sum of money and gets graded. Which is fucking bullshit as we all know that grading is something that happens largely though seminars and stuff. You shouldn't have to pay for your belt.

Of course, my example and the ones the TS mentioned are probably different.

 

[Zankou]

This is one reason why having white belt Mundials is utterly ridiculous in the first place.

 

[Chris_Keller]

I have been guilty of sandbagging once but I will never do it again and it was mostly my BJJ instructor's fault:

I have a white belt in BJJ but I've been doing judo at a competitive level for years and I compete in MMA.

I travel a lot, and I dont train that much in my straight BJJ club. I asked my instructor if I could do the blue belt tournament at least(I honestly can hang with his purple belts) but he still registred me in the whitebelt division. I had been training like 10 times in his academy, I have a very good top game and takedowns, as well as bridges and reversals from judo but my guard is not my strongest point, and classic BJJ is mostly about the guard.

I destroyed everyone in under 30 seconds until the finals where I lost on an advantage because the other guy just stalled and trapped me in an ineffective guillotine for like 3 minutes when I shot a double after 2 minutes of pointless neck wrestling(he was a luta livre guy, also a sandbagger).

One of the coaches came to me to call me a sandbagger, and he was right. But what could have I done? Promote myself to blue belt?

 

[Simco]

This is one reason why having white belt Mundials is utterly ridiculous in the first place.

Then why have blue belt? Those guys are just purples.
Why have purples belt? Those guys are just brown.


Also, serious lol @

Was Kron Gracie complaining about sandbagging when he lost in the first round of the black belt division at the mundials last year?

 

[IronMaidenfan#1]

I have been guilty of sandbagging once but I will never do it again and it was mostly my BJJ instructor's fault:

I have a white belt in BJJ but I've been doing judo at a competitive level for years and I compete in MMA.

I travel a lot, and I dont train that much in my straight BJJ club. I asked my instructor if I could do the blue belt tournament at least(I honestly can hang with his purple belts) but he still registred me in the whitebelt division. I had been training like 10 times in his academy, I have a very good top game and takedowns, as well as bridges and reversals from judo but my guard is not my strongest point, and classic BJJ is mostly about the guard.

I destroyed everyone in under 30 seconds until the finals where I lost on an advantage because the other guy just stalled and trapped me in an ineffective guillotine for like 3 minutes when I shot a double after 2 minutes of pointless neck wrestling(he was a luta livre guy, also a sandbagger).

One of the coaches came to me to call me a sandbagger, and he was right. But what could have I done? Promote myself to blue belt?

Ahh well, it's nice that you feel guilty and I do blame your coach more than yourself.

 

[FirstScratch]

This shit goes on all the time. Everyone should know it by now. Unfortunately competition often brings out the worst in people. Withholding belts so a blue or purple belt level student can go to a comp and pick off legitimate white belts doesn't mean your instructor or Jiu-Jitsu is better. It just means you lack honor and integrity.

 

[Deleted member 3729]

Best way to fix this for big competitions (not local/state level):

No belt divisions

Look at Judo for example: There is no Novice olympics, no intermediate World Championships. All your elite, point level comps don't give a shit what belt you are.

i didn't even know that they had white belt divisions in the mundials...

This is one reason why having white belt Mundials is utterly ridiculous in the first place.

Zing zing zing

I think there should only be one world championship per weight division.

 

[gannas]

I hear all the time that "the gi game is much more technical", "you have to train in the gi to be any good", and "no matter how good someone is at no-gi, he won't be able to handle the collar chokes and the complexity of the gi game". If all that is true, then an experienced no-gi player competing at the white belt level in the gi shouldn't be a problem for anyone.

Really? You honestly think that someone who has trained no gi for 6 years vs a guy who just started gi or no-gi BJJ is gonna be able to match the 6+ years guys hip movement and overall fluidness on the ground? Really?

 

[LuisHernandez]

Examples:

2008 Mundial Results

Heath Pedigo (2nd place, Pena, Adult male white belt)
is an undefeated MMA fighter who had his first fight in 1999, and won it by armbar. 9 of his 11 wins are by submission. He got one of his wins via a flying triangle in 2004! :icon_neut
Fight Finder - Heath Pedigo's Mixed Martial Arts Statistics

Jeff Cummings (1st place, same division)
According to his school (World Champion Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Muay Thai School), Jeff has 6 years of wrestling experience :icon_conf. Now, I understand wrestling is not the same as BJJ...but cmon, this guy should be fighting blue belts.

the list goes on and on. Anyhoo, what are your guys thoughts on this? Fair or not fair? I know one argument will be "everyone at the white belt level fighting at that level of competition is probably a sandbagger", to which I ask, even if everyone does it, does it still mean it's okay?

It's not fucking right.

 

[TQ fan]

i think the worst part of it is that a true wb that has been working his ass off for a year get used like a mop in a tourney against a sandbagger and goes home discouraged. People have good or bad experiances in the beginning that decide there future in bjj. On the other hand until your coach gives you a higher belt, what cab you do about it. I compeated nogi for years before trying gi and had to start as a wb, if i would've shown up at my 1st gi tourney in anything other then the white div. i would have been disrespecting my coach. Who happens to be a pretty bad mother f'er.

 

[Lopes]

This is one reason why having white belt Mundials is utterly ridiculous in the first place.

But how will we ever know who the best white belt in the world is?

 

[Rukia]

I've heard Rodrigo tell students before that they should have enrolled in a tougher division and not give stripes out because of it.

Sorry, I'm just not sure I understand the logic here. Doesn't this just encourage guys to go "oh well, I'm just a two stripe white belt, I should compete in beginner" when they are really closer to three stripes or even blue? I understand he is "punishing" them in some way (assuming belts rather than ability matters to them) in an effort to instill certain values, but I just don't see how it will result in what he is looking for... if that is indeed what he is looking for.