Some white belts at Mundials are incredible sandbaggers

[Thrawn33]

pretty sure you have to be at least shodan to compete in the olympics.

You're probably right. But you don't need to be a shodan to fight in elite-level comps and earn points (had a girl on my team get points as an Orange belt, she soon made green after). Another teammate fought in senior nationals as green (she didn't win, but she was allowed to fight).

Either way, you wanna stop this whole sandbagging nonsense, make your big comps be something like Purple and above.

 

[Jdonw]

Its whitebelt, who cares. I plan on doing this long enough that all I will think of my whitebelt medals is that it was fun to compete and a good learning experience. It will be like being mad about get points off of a spelling test in junior high.

 

[the heed]

this kind of shit happens.. unavoidable actually

 

[Rukia]

ultimately all it does is show them up to be spineless cowards. instead of taking up the challenge of competing at higher belt ranks where they may lose, they wallow in the white belt division, scoring easy wins to feed their ego.

To be fair, it is not always the competitors choice. It's not like he can promote himself, and maybe there is someone from his club already competing at the higher level so the club is blocking him from promotion and/or registering for blue (afaik you can enter higher brackets if you so choose). There can be a lot going on behind the scenes, I wouldn't straight up blame the competitor. His instructors might have more to answer for than him.

 

[StoicDude]

If you like competing just go and do it. If people sandbag, they have to live with it. Tournaments, in my opinion, at lower belt levels are way different than how I train at the gym.
Your first big tournament you will end up loosing early and chalking it up as experience. You need to go and do it though, and not get discouraged by sandbaggers and never try.
I'm fortunate enough to have an instructor that tells me to enroll in higher experience levels, so one win there means much more.

 

[jasond]

Its whitebelt, who cares. I plan on doing this long enough that all I will think of my whitebelt medals is that it was fun to compete and a good learning experience. It will be like being mad about get points off of a spelling test in junior high.

If it were a little local comp, then I'd agree with you.

But what about when a legit 1 year white belt from NY, FL, or some where else on the east coast who pays all that money to fly out to California, pays for a hotel room, food, etc. then gets smoked in a minute by a sandbagger with 10+ submission wins in MMA who's been training for 6 years?

That's why people are getting so upset about this. Sandbagging at a local comp? I agree, who cares. Most local comps only require a $30-$60 investment as far as the entrance fee. But when it's a major tournament that has people flying cross-country to compete, that's a different story where guys are putting up over $1,000 for round trip flight, hotel, food, entrance fee, etc.

 

[platfox]

I understand your point, and I do see it as a problem as well. But the reality is, you're not going to stomp this fire out. So its time to flow with the go lol.

Thats what alot of Germans said about Hitler.:redface:

 

[Thaiboxer10000]

there is no doubt that when competing in the final brackets of any good size tourney you are going against guys that should be or are very close to the next level. Thats just part of the process. Some schools don't promote much until you have done well in competition. The top white belts should be blues, the top blues should be purples ect. It will always be that way. Those guys that are competing below their level are definitely giving themselves a disservice. Whats better win the blue belt division or a few wins in the purple belt ect.

Nice thing about black is that its all about quality.

 

[via triangle]

hey that heath guy is 11-0 to in mma!!

and he was submitting people in 1999,Thats f@$#ked up that he is competing at a white belt level.It also makes him a pussy,a undefeated mma fighter must feel real good about himself by beating white belts

 

[via triangle]

If it were a little local comp, then I'd agree with you.

But what about when a legit 1 year white belt from NY, FL, or some where else on the east coast who pays all that money to fly out to California, pays for a hotel room, food, etc. then gets smoked in a minute by a sandbagger with 10+ submission wins in MMA who's been training for 6 years?

That's why people are getting so upset about this. Sandbagging at a local comp? I agree, who cares. Most local comps only require a $30-$60 investment as far as the entrance fee. But when it's a major tournament that has people flying cross-country to compete, that's a different story where guys are putting up over $1,000 for round trip flight, hotel, food, entrance fee, etc.

very good point I agree 100%

 

[naptime]

The easiest way to deal with it is to stop people who are clearly sandbagging, and make them compete up one belt division. Hold the whitebelt matches first.

Also, couldn't some of this crap be weeded out at qualifying tournaments?

While there are some pretty bad sandbaggers out there, I think a lot of the complaining are from white belts who are pissed that they got beat by someone better who is legitimately still a white belt. The logic goes like: anyone who could beat me is obviously sandbagging, because I am the greatest white belt of all time, and should have gotten my blue 6 mos. ago because I am tapping blues now, etc.

 

[BJJ Beginner]

Some assholes on this forum are going to come on this thread and say mma and no-gi is different than gi. And they will say that wrestling for 6 years and hitting a flying triangle 5 years ago in no-gi mma is different. They will bring up Diego sanchez and say these guys never trained with a gi so they did right competing as whitebelts. ( don't laugh someone will probably argue this with you).

I guess I'm going to have to be that asshole. Don't get me wrong - I hate sandbagging and think the people that do it are absolute pussies. But you can't have it both ways; you can't say that "no-gi isn't really jiu jitsu" and that you have to train in a gi to be promoted (not saying you believe this, but many people do), and then turn around and say that experienced no-gi guys should have to compete at a higher level in the gi. I hear all the time that "the gi game is much more technical", "you have to train in the gi to be any good", and "no matter how good someone is at no-gi, he won't be able to handle the collar chokes and the complexity of the gi game". If all that is true, then an experienced no-gi player competing at the white belt level in the gi shouldn't be a problem for anyone.

Now personally, I do think that an experienced no-gi guy competing at white belt in the gi is sandbagging. But that's because I respect both no-gi and gi as different variations of the same art, rather than seeing one as a lesser version of the other. Until that respect becomes more universal, however, I can't say that someone who takes advantage of the disrespect the no-gi game is often given is doing something wrong.

 

[KILL KILL]

well if the guy is a whitebelt, then that's the division he's stuck in until someone promotes him i guess.

 

[LocalNmass]

This is why you'll see more and more "in house" style tournament's. I believe JJ machado has been doing this for awhile and now Gracie Barra's are encouraging it.

These setting's are to get a known "level" field to get your feet wet in a somewhat competitive atmosphere.

 

[crossman]

Don't you think Instructors are also a part of the problem. They do have a say so in what divisions there students compete in. Is a "sandbagger" entering novice divisions without his instructors blessing ( at the very least )?

 

[Wrestleben]

If it were a little local comp, then I'd agree with you.

But what about when a legit 1 year white belt from NY, FL, or some where else on the east coast who pays all that money to fly out to California, pays for a hotel room, food, etc. then gets smoked in a minute by a sandbagger with 10+ submission wins in MMA who's been training for 6 years?

That's why people are getting so upset about this. Sandbagging at a local comp? I agree, who cares. Most local comps only require a $30-$60 investment as far as the entrance fee. But when it's a major tournament that has people flying cross-country to compete, that's a different story where guys are putting up over $1,000 for round trip flight, hotel, food, entrance fee, etc.

The fact is that half the competitors will lose in the first round anyways. Is it that much more frustrating to lose by a flying triangle to the division winner in the first round then losing 5-2 to someone else? I think most white/blue belts go to these big tournaments for the experience. It's a very small percentage who are either exceptionally athletically gifted or who have trained more then everyone else who have a shot at winning.

By your logic, half the competitors at the pan-ams and worlds would be outraged. Was Kron Gracie complaining about sandbagging when he lost in the first round of the black belt division at the mundials last year? No, sometimes we just lose. That's ok as long as we learn from it. I think blatant sandbaggers are gay, but I certainly don't lose sleep over them.

paraphrased Ryan Hall quote: "even the toughest blue belt in the world isn't really THAT tough"

 

[Balto]

The fact is that half the competitors will lose in the first round anyways. Is it that much more frustrating to lose by a flying triangle to the division winner in the first round then losing 5-2 to someone else? I think most white/blue belts go to these big tournaments for the experience. It's a very small percentage who are either exceptionally athletically gifted or who have trained more then everyone else who have a shot at winning.

By your logic, half the competitors at the pan-ams and worlds would be outraged. Was Kron Gracie complaining about sandbagging when he lost in the first round of the black belt division at the mundials last year? No, sometimes we just lose. That's ok as long as we learn from it. I think blatant sandbaggers are gay, but I certainly don't lose sleep over them.

paraphrased Ryan Hall quote: "even the toughest blue belt in the world isn't really THAT tough"

I definitely agree with the quote. The whole idea of a blue belt world champion is ludicrous to me.

However, I am also very against sandbagging. If you are a pro MMA fighter with a decade of experience and your instructor tells you to compete in the white belt division, then the sandbagging is on your instructor.

Most of the situations like this, however, involve people who supposedly don't have an instructor. The argument they make is that despite their decades of experience, they don't have anyone to promote them so they have no choice but to fight in white belt. I don't buy that argument at all.

If you have no instructor, then that means that you are now your own instructor. As the instructor, you have to take responsibility for placing yourself in the appropriate division. If you are clearly far beyond the white belt division, you either put on a blue belt and enter that division, or you simply don't compete at all. Entering white belt is no longer an option.

Ultimately, someone in your association needs to be responsible for what rank you are competing at. If you have no one else above you in your association, then you are the one responsible. I'd much rather have someone put on a colored belt for a competition and enter the appropriate division than see that person cowardly beat true beginners yet again.

 

[SMillard]

The simplest way to control sandbagging is organize a national grappling organization that all competitors have to register with and all tournament bodies recognize and participate in.

You enter a tournament at novice and you win 1st; you have to move up to the next division. The only way you can drop down is if you come in last in that division more than two consecutive times.

Major tournaments should have a minimum number of appearances at minor tournaments so to avoid the "abu dabi" scenerio some of you are describing.

The "true sandbagging" I don't think is as bad as most are making it out to be. As someone already said, "some people think because they got beat, the guy was a sandbagger".

 

[Simco]

This is breaking news.

 

[jackandcoke]

I'm hoping to enter my first tournament this summer and
my instructor tells me people might think i'm sandbagging
because of my fast progression only after 3 months... so
he suggests I move up to to intermediate, I don't care if
I lose I just want competition, there is no fun in winning
against people you can dominate.