Some white belts at Mundials are incredible sandbaggers

[ItsArun]

Examples:

2008 Mundial Results

Heath Pedigo (2nd place, Pena, Adult male white belt)
is an undefeated MMA fighter who had his first fight in 1999, and won it by armbar. 9 of his 11 wins are by submission. He got one of his wins via a flying triangle in 2004! :icon_neut
Fight Finder - Heath Pedigo's Mixed Martial Arts Statistics

Jeff Cummings (1st place, same division)
According to his school (World Champion Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Muay Thai School), Jeff has 6 years of wrestling experience :icon_conf. Now, I understand wrestling is not the same as BJJ...but cmon, this guy should be fighting blue belts.

the list goes on and on. Anyhoo, what are your guys thoughts on this? Fair or not fair? I know one argument will be "everyone at the white belt level fighting at that level of competition is probably a sandbagger", to which I ask, even if everyone does it, does it still mean it's okay?

 

[UxSxI]

that makes me nervous about starting to compete..

i don't want to run into a sandbagger.

 

[Lookyoung]

Doesn't surprise me at all. It seems that I am the only one on this forum that realizes sandbagging is alive and real. Most people will however say your a pussy and they will tell you to shut the fuck up and train. These people that say this are the same people that are sandbagging. Sandbaggers are fucking cowards and if I was in charge of mundials I would strip them of there medals and they would be blackballed from ever competing again. The problem is there is no structure to get rid of sandbaggers and there is no way to get rid of sandbaggers. Some assholes on this forum are going to come on this thread and say mma and no-gi is different than gi. And they will say that wrestling for 6 years and hitting a flying triangle 5 years ago in no-gi mma is different. They will bring up Diego sanchez and say these guys never trained with a gi so they did right competing as whitebelts. ( don't laugh someone will probably argue this with you)

Just think I am going to pay for a plane ticket to go to mundials, spend my time to compete and go up against one of these sandbagging cocksuckers. That is why I am done for competition for now. I lost to a sandbagger at the Naga and will never compete at that tournament again.

 

[stu3ufc**]

hey that heath guy is 11-0 to in mma!!

 

[pittelp]

I say do what your heart desires...

Many fighters enter the UFC without a BB in BJJ.

 

[ItsArun]

that makes me nervous about starting to compete..

i don't want to run into a sandbagger.

Just think I am going to pay for a plane ticket to go to mundials, spend my time to compete and go up against one of these sandbagging cocksuckers. That is why I am done for competition for now. I lost to a sandbagger at the Naga and will never compete at that tournament again.

THIS is exactly the issue that bothers me - people get discouraged from competing. Some white belts might have a better chance at placing in the BLUE BELT division than the WHITE BELT division. Atleast in the blue belt division you know that most of the guys center around a certain range of skill (though obviously we all know a blue belt whose been a blue for 10 years).

The problem is there is no structure to get rid of sandbaggers and there is no way to get rid of sandbaggers.

I agree, there ought to be some way placing people in their appropriate categories. I mean, it's not so much of a big deal for local and smaller tournaments, but for national and world level competition, you'd think there would be some sort of method of preventing these kinds of things. I mean honestly, what honor, pride and respect is there in winning a novice division if you're clearly an advanced fighter?

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

Not shocked at all.

 

[Fozzy1]

Not everyone can be belted, you cant just say 'I am a bluebelt, self ranked' and enter. Though i don't agree with sandbagging either.

~Foz

 

[Nagster5]

Not everyone can be belted, you cant just say 'I am a bluebelt, self ranked' and enter. Though i don't agree with sandbagging either.

~Foz

My team is not affiliated with someone who can give us belts, so a guy on my team enters the blue belt division and just wears his white. Not sure if the mundials would allow this though...

 

[Flexwave2003]

Why should I worry about running into a sandbagger? Whats the worst that can happen? I get submitted, or made to look like a fool? Well, win or lose, the way I see it; its still experience. So what Im a highlight reel for somebody who was sandbaggin, in their hearts they know the truth. And thats all that matters. You cant worry about what others are going to do, just concentrate on doing your thing.

I personally would rather get tapped a 100 times by a black belt, then get tapped a 100 times by a white belt. The better competition I face, the more experience Im going to get. And hopefully, in return, the better I will be come. So let the experts throw flying triangles at you, you're going to see some crazy shit eventually one way or the other.

I understand your point, and I do see it as a problem as well. But the reality is, you're not going to stomp this fire out. So its time to flow with the go lol.

 

[Nagster5]

Why should I worry about running into a sandbagger? Whats the worst that can happen? I get submitted, or made to look like a fool? Well, win or lose, the way I see it; its still experience. So what Im a highlight reel for somebody who was sandbaggin, in their hearts they know the truth. And thats all that matters. You cant worry about what others are going to do, just concentrate on doing your thing.

I personally would rather get tapped a 100 times by a black belt, then get tapped a 100 times by a white belt. The better competition I face, the more experience Im going to get. And hopefully, in return, the better I will be come. So let the experts throw flying triangles at you, you're going to see some crazy shit eventually one way or the other.

I understand your point, and I do see it as a problem as well. But the reality is, you're not going to stomp this fire out. So its time to flow with the go lol.

I would be pissed if I traveled a long way and payed a bunch of money only to get beat by a guy who has no legitimate reason to be competing in my skill division in the first round.

 

[yoder]

at the abu dhabai american trials in florida jeremy may entered the white belt division.

 

[nefti]

in all honesty there is no real way other than public scolding/humiliation to stop sandbaggers. And i mean REAL sandbaggers like pro fighters entering white belt divisions. Not people from schools with high standards.

 

[El_Terrible]

if diego sanchez entered a jiu jitsu tournament 2 years ago when he was still a whitebelt, would he be considered sandbagging?
I mean he had won TUF, competed in ADCC and was fighting world class fighters in the UFC, but he was technically a whitebelt under Saulo at the time.

 

[Envious]

Why should I worry about running into a sandbagger? Whats the worst that can happen? I get submitted, or made to look like a fool? Well, win or lose, the way I see it; its still experience. So what Im a highlight reel for somebody who was sandbaggin, in their hearts they know the truth. And thats all that matters. You cant worry about what others are going to do, just concentrate on doing your thing.

I personally would rather get tapped a 100 times by a black belt, then get tapped a 100 times by a white belt. The better competition I face, the more experience Im going to get. And hopefully, in return, the better I will be come. So let the experts throw flying triangles at you, you're going to see some crazy shit eventually one way or the other.

I understand your point, and I do see it as a problem as well. But the reality is, you're not going to stomp this fire out. So its time to flow with the go lol.

That is a great attitude.

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

Arun, I agree that the MMA fighter was sandbagging, too. However, honestly 6 years of wrestling doesn't make Jeff Cummings a blue belt. I have students with extensive wrestling experience, but they are not blue belts yet. Their previous experience can accelerate the time it takes to get to blue belt; however, they still had much to learn before getting there.

However, I agree that they were still sandbagging Jeff. In 2008, he won 2nd in the Lutador Open gi blue belt and no-gi intermediate divisions, 3rd in the Pan-ams and first place in the Mundials. I'm not a black belt, and nor am I qualified to judge him since I'm not his coach. However with those accomplishments, it is incredible that they didn't promote him to blue belt yet. What does the kid need to do - kill a blue belt and take his belt?

 

[Rukia]

I personally would rather get tapped a 100 times by a black belt, then get tapped a 100 times by a white belt.

I think what you *meant* to say was that you would rather get tapped 100 times by a BB than tap a WB 100 times. Am I right? If so, I agree... at least in training.

 

[jerryseinfeld]

Arun, I agree that the MMA fighter was sandbagging, too. However, honestly 6 years of wrestling doesn't make Jeff Cummings a blue belt. I have students with extensive wrestling experience, but they are not blue belts yet. Their previous experience can accelerate the time it takes to get to blue belt; however, they still had much to learn before getting there.

However, I agree that they were still sandbagging Jeff. In 2008, he won 3rd in the Pan-ams and first place in the Mundials. I'm not a black belt, and nor am I qualified to judge him since I'm not his coach. However with those accomplishments, it is incredible that they didn't promote him to blue belt yet. What does the kid need to do - kill a blue belt and take his belt?

think this says it all really. won at the mundials and is still a white belt, fucking pathetic. who does he train under?

ultimately all it does is show them up to be spineless cowards. instead of taking up the challenge of competing at higher belt ranks where they may lose, they wallow in the white belt division, scoring easy wins to feed their ego. these people are pathetic, they have such a fear of losing they would rather smash up some guy who's been training for 6 months than challenge themselves to take on people they may get submitted by. totally against the spirit of jujitsu if you ask me.

I've seen some dubious cases of sandbagging myself, a guy who was training with us for 6 months (ex wrestler and trained 5 times a week) cakewalked his first comp and we had other teams saying he was an obvious sandbagger, which wasn't the case. however anyone who wins the mundials should be promoted immediately, on the spot and never compete at white belt level again. if jeff loves competition so much maybe he should challenge himself by stepping up the level.

 

[Thrawn33]

Best way to fix this for big competitions (not local/state level):

No belt divisions

Look at Judo for example: There is no Novice olympics, no intermediate World Championships. All your elite, point level comps don't give a shit what belt you are.

 

[jerryseinfeld]

pretty sure you have to be at least shodan to compete in the olympics.