Socialism's Growing Popularity Among Democrats (Sanders Affect)

[Metusalemi]

 

[TheStruggle]

Alot of Pro Socialists ITT. Point proven I guess

 

[TheStruggle]

"Sometimes the state has to step in" No, what you mean is, giving government control to sectors you don't think are 'fair enough' to the point where government is controlling every aspect of your life because you don't believe people can police themselves. And when government or 'the state' controls everything to healthcare, education, gun control, taxes, food, etc suddenly the differences between socialism and communism aren't that big.

 

[Deleted member 196663]

I think socialist policies are better fit for small, culturally homogeneous societies.

 

[44nutman]

It's a natural progression due to less earning power of the middle class compared to more growth from the top 1%. People are frustrated because there are elected officials are more concerned with their donors.
Same reason Louis XVI lost his head.

 

[Space]

America is a very nationalistic country though. So lets promote Nationalistic Socialism. Actually, lets go one step further. Bernie supports workers rights and has called immigration a scheme of the Kock brothers so lets have a Nationalist Socialist Workers Party. Let's go after the undesirables who hoard the wealth. These international capitalists.

 

[luckyshot]

You people think all Hitler did was kill jews, wasn't like the Nazi state didn't promise jobs to all citizens by government, government-run education, Nationalized Healthcare, and gun control.

Sounds like you got a D in history.

No. You just get an A for quotes out of context. Hitler said that during a speech to try to broaden the Nazis support by appealing to the base of one of his main political rivals, the actual Left wing socialists (the guys he later rounded up and threw into concentration camps). It would be like a Republican today saying, "The Republican Party is the party of social justice."
http://historyandpolitics77.blogspot.com/2011/03/we-are-socialists-debunked.html

 

[Limbo Pete]

Democratic Socialism not the same thing as socialism. Regulating companies and markets is the only thing that keeps us from being a neofeudal society. With the rise of neoliberalism in the last 35 years we're barely hanging on as it is. Depending on how this administration goes, the American dream could be wrapping up soon. Also, TS is a known idiot.

Correct on all points lol

 

[TheStruggle]

No. You just get an A for quotes out of context. Hitler said that during a speech to try to broaden the Nazis support by appealing to the base of one of his main political rivals, the actual Left wing socialists (the guys he later rounded up and threw into concentration camps). It would be like a Republican today saying, "The Republican Party is the party of social justice."
http://historyandpolitics77.blogspot.com/2011/03/we-are-socialists-debunked.html

Well if Blogspot says so, then clearly the Nazis didn't support jobs to all citizens by government, government-run education, Nationalized Healthcare, and gun control.

 

[Thunderflash500]

Right, because socialism was the defining factor of nazism.

Even though "Among the earliest victims of discrimination and persecution in nazi Germany were political opponents including Communists, Socialists, social democrats and trade union leaders."
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007329

But hey, Nazi had social in the name, so I guess that trumps reality.

#alternativefacts

First, it was meant to be somewhat of a joke. Second, another poster pointed out that Hitler was a socialist in some regards. Really it's not that much different then the road America is headed down. State and Corporations mix.

Explain how central banking the way it is run in practice isn't a few individuals trying to micro manage a nation. Or since every western nation has a central bank, we have a handful of individuals running the western world. That's not exactly capitalism. This is more of a rant, I'm not saying you said anything about Central Banking.

 

[luckyshot]

Well if Blogspot says so, then clearly the Nazis didn't support jobs to all citizens by government, government-run education, Nationalized Healthcare, and gun control.

Sorry I posted a link to someone who had actually read the whole speech and talked about that quote in context rather than just an awesome meme.

Also, the Nazis made a lot of promises. Those promises aren't what made the Nazis bad. It was the whole killing Jews thing.

If the Nazis had just delivered on free education and healthcare and skipped the genocide, very different conversation about them today, guaranteed.

 

[Raiman]

Most people that support socialist ideology seem to not remember history or what the countries that established socialism did to their populace. Regardless of the social hierarchy prior to revolution, eventually in a socialist society what happens is a new hierarchy is established which enforces the new ideology at the barrel of a gun and destroys those that oppose it or even those that don't simply aren't loyal enough or question too much. I'm reading the Gulag Archipelago and the shit in there is beyond belief and from what I understand China under Mao was worse.

This country will never be socialist. It is against everything we say we are or believe in. Eventually these ideologies will be exposed for what they are.

 

[Raiman]

Right, because socialism was the defining factor of nazism.

Even though "Among the earliest victims of discrimination and persecution in nazi Germany were political opponents including Communists, Socialists, social democrats and trade union leaders."
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007329

But hey, Nazi had social in the name, so...

Social in the name has little to do with it and more of the substance of what the party did and preached. Not implementing it is besides the point, it's what they said to gain favor.

 

[luckyshot]

I think socialist policies are better fit for small, culturally homogeneous societies.

Probably true, but it doesn't mean we couldn't provide a much better social safety net.

 

[luckyshot]

Social in the name has little to do with it and more of the substance of what the party did and preached. Not implementing it is besides the point, it's what they said to gain favor.

Right, but that doesn't make those socialistic promises inherently bad.

That would be like saying candy is bad because it's what pedos use to get little boys in the van.

 

[Deleted member 196663]

Probably true, but it doesn't mean we couldn't provide a much better social safety net.

That safety net (or a large component of it) arguably caused more problems than it solved...

 

[panamaican]

I used to think that socialism had no real future in this country but the constant demands from both sides for various forms of government intervention to preserve their individual standards of living via regulation of production and the free market have convinced me otherwise.

With that in mind, the public-private partnerships that run this country are hardly new and new regulations for the evolving economy are inevitable. So long as we pursue paths that benefit everyone or no one, we'll be fine.

 

[luckyshot]

That safety net (or a large component of it) arguably caused more problems than it solved...

Yeah, it's a tricky thing. A bigger safety net is not necessarily a smarter safety net. But economists predict an ever increasing percentage of jobs are going to be low wage jobs. By 2030 some economists predict that half of all available jobs will be in service industries. This was certainly played out over the last 20 years. We have got to figure out a system that allows everyone who works hard to enjoy some basic security.

Don't forget, Marx didn't predict socialist revolution for moral reasons-- because it was nicer to share. He predicted it for economic reasons. As the industrial revolution occurred and intensified, he saw the means of production (i.e. Machines) becoming increasingly important to the economy and labor becoming increasingly less important (alienated). Fast forward to today and this dynamic is playing out towards its logical end.

 

[Prutfis]

For David Green, head of the Detroit chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), Donald Trump's victory in November was both distressing and cause for optimism in his quest to pull the Democratic Party to the left.

"We need a party that’s open to progressive forces, and that’s why we have to elect progressive leadership within the party," Green said, while attending the Michigan Democratic Party's spring convention in Detroit earlier this month.

Membership in the DSA, founded in 1982, has surged since Trump's election on Nov. 8, putting the movement in a position to make inroads on the Democratic Party's energized left. The membership gains are fueled by supporters of Bernie Sanders, the U.S. Senator from Vermont who sought the Democratic presidential nomination last year.

The DSA is not a political party, but it supports many of the same short-term policy positions as the Sanders wing of the Democratic Party: a $15 minimum wage, single-payer healthcare, free college, and opposition to free-trade deals.

But unlike most mainstream Democrats, the DSA also has a long-term vision of a democratic socialist society in the vein of countries like Sweden and Denmark, where workers have a more direct say in how their jobs and the economy are run, alongside a more robust public sector.

Since November, national membership has almost tripled to about 17,000. Its leaders have said meetings are packed and new chapters are cropping up nationwide, including in Rust Belt states such as Michigan, Wisconsin and Ohio, where Trump scored upset wins over Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton to take the White House.


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-politics-demsocialists-idUSKBN16014M


No matter how many times socialism has failed in history, socialists always believe that socialism just hasn't been implemented "the right way"

Where has democratic socialism failed? They are some of the best countries in the world. The US has many socialist policies and measures.

 

[Ultrashogun]

See how that pendulum swings to and fro.