So you think you know all about karate??

surfer dude said:
I love kickboxing, but I get things from karate it did not provide. E.G. Open hand strikes, the ability to grab/grapple since we do not wear gloves, and the hand conditioning necessary for it. You can condition intelligently so as not to end up with mangled arthritic claws too. I started kickboxing contiguously with karate so I have no idea what one would be like without the other. But I do know I have gotten value from both; a Venn diagram sums it up.
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^^^ Venn Diagram...? maybe you should spend more time in NuclearLandMine's.... biohazard suit.... ehr, not the two of you together the way he preferssss...

^^^ Yes, traditional karate is always developmental.... but there's always someone ready to re-open the Cobra-Kai Institution for the Self-Inflicted Destruction....

KarateStylist
 
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DivineComedy said:
Clinching? Elbows? Knees? I am not as familiar with Goju-Ryu as I am with the other Karate styles.
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the higher belts do elbows and knees to the body (brown and black)
I think its more of an insurance thing.
I only spar with kicks and punches and sweeps
the higher belts also sometimes spar with takedowns and throws (our school also trains Jiu Jitsu although its mostly the Japanese variety).
 
MarcoW said:
I think its more of an insurance thing.
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It might be some places, but I think this is more of an instructor personality thing. I didn't look into the random crappy underwriters on Google that offer martial arts insurance, but if you go through a big company they don't provide ANY rules or guidelines about martial arts training other than that they won't cover your advice about diet or tournaments you host without prior approval. The big companies just provide liability and you can have people train and spar anyway you want (though you still want it to be professional and typical, if you are doing weird shit you will look bad in court - negligent / whatever).
 
Nihon kempo karate.
Using a variation of Bogu kumite. (bogu= armoured, and the same term used for kendo armour) that is continuous (ie, they do not break after every hit)

(also edited into the opening post)
 
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Irikumi Ju
Having mentioned the Goju kumite format Irikumi Go (Go=hard contact), I might aswell mention Irikumi ju (Ju=soft contact)
Light contact only, continuous fighting.

(also edited into the first post)
 
shameless bump, since someone in a recent thread asked about how many types of karate there was.
 
shinkyoku said:
Freestyle karate.
A new karate sport-system in Japan. Looks like knockdown karate with much more throws&takedowns.
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new vid since the old one has been removed


I guess it really is just a minor variation on knockdown karate.
 
shinkyoku said:
Nihon kempo karate.
Using a variation of Bogu kumite. (bogu= armoured, and the same term used for kendo armour) that is continuous (ie, they do not break after every hit)

(also edited into the opening post)
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You'd mentioned in the first post that KOs are rare in bogu kumite because of the armor involved.

Do the Kendo/fencing masks really reduce the impact significantly more than top-of-the-line boxing headgear?
 
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Cross_Trainer said:
You'd mentioned in the first post that KOs are rare in bogu kumite because of the armor involved.

Do the Kendo/fencing masks really reduce the impact significantly more than top-of-the-line boxing headgear?
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I am a kyokushin guy, and have not done Bogu kumite, so I have not tried the kendo helmets. Actually, when I talked by armor, I was talking more of the body armor preventing almost all body KO
 
Uchi Mata said:
What's the advantage of doing any of these instead of simply using K-1 or Muay Thai rules? It seems like they're all artificially restrictive (or at least most). It's an interesting write up, but it seems like if you want to fight you should probably just do one of the kickboxing styles.
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The styles that don't allow as much contact are great for learning how to kickbox or strike without at much risk to your health. You can do these styles for your whole life without risk to mental health from getting hit in the head. For example.

Sparring using Muay Thai rules or K-1 rules for 10 years by the average person means you will get hit in the head 1000's of times. You learn spacing, all the kicks and punches, and learn how to dodge and block. That is your gain. However, getting hit in the head and other areas can result in more injury to your body, arthritis, Parkinson's, etc. That is your loss.

Sparring using point rules with only light contact for 10 years by the average person means you will get hit in the head every now and then. You learn spacing, all the kicks and punches, and learn how to dodge and block. Your gain is almost as good as tougher fighting rules. However, getting hit with significantly less shots to the head and body results in a healthier body long term. Your loss is much less.

What I was told by my instructors is to start off in a traditional style and stay there for 5 years. Then if you decide you want to fight professionally you will have all the tools without the injuries. You will get hit a lot less if you do Muay Thai rules and kickboxing rules later because of your kicking, spacing, and dodging and blocking learned from the traditional art.

Greatest gain with the least amount of risk possible. That is the point of Traditional Martial Arts and point fighting.
 
Nicslagan said:
The styles that don't allow as much contact are great for learning how to kickbox or strike without at much risk to your health. You can do these styles for your whole life without risk to mental health from getting hit in the head. For example.

Sparring using Muay Thai rules or K-1 rules for 10 years by the average person means you will get hit in the head 1000's of times. You learn spacing, all the kicks and punches, and learn how to dodge and block. That is your gain. However, getting hit in the head and other areas can result in more injury to your body, arthritis, Parkinson's, etc. That is your loss.

Sparring using point rules with only light contact for 10 years by the average person means you will get hit in the head every now and then. You learn spacing, all the kicks and punches, and learn how to dodge and block. Your gain is almost as good as tougher fighting rules. However, getting hit with significantly less shots to the head and body results in a healthier body long term. Your loss is much less.

What I was told by my instructors is to start off in a traditional style and stay there for 5 years. Then if you decide you want to fight professionally you will have all the tools without the injuries. You will get hit a lot less if you do Muay Thai rules and kickboxing rules later because of your kicking, spacing, and dodging and blocking learned from the traditional art.

Greatest gain with the least amount of risk possible. That is the point of Traditional Martial Arts and point fighting.
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I have to agree with you even though I do believe fighting full contact at some point is important to gain that experience of fighting against someone trying to knock you out, controlling the adrenaline and pressure that goes with it and being able to take a few hits full blast. I don't think you can get that experience from just point fighting.
But you're also right about the risks of brain damage from fighting in rules with full contact punches to the head (Boxing, Muay Thai, Kickboxing, MMA, etc.)

That's why I found something in between with Kyokushin Karate which has tournaments with continuous point scoring rules and head punches, and tournaments with full contact knockdown rules (bare knuckle punches only below the neck, kicks and knees allowed everywhere). Gives you the experience of using distance and head punches with the point scoring, and the experience of fighting bare fists and taking and giving hits full force with the knockdown rules.
That should limit the damage to the brain and hopefully not be punch drunk in later life :)
 
Tayski said:
I have to agree with you even though I do believe fighting full contact at some point is important to gain that experience of fighting against someone trying to knock you out, controlling the adrenaline and pressure that goes with it and being able to take a few hits full blast. I don't think you can get that experience from just point fighting.
But you're also right about the risks of brain damage from fighting in rules with full contact punches to the head (Boxing, Muay Thai, Kickboxing, MMA, etc.)

That's why I found something in between with Kyokushin Karate which has tournaments with continuous point scoring rules and head punches, and tournaments with full contact knockdown rules (bare knuckle punches only below the neck, kicks and knees allowed everywhere). Gives you the experience of using distance and head punches with the point scoring, and the experience of fighting bare fists and taking and giving hits full force with the knockdown rules.
That should limit the damage to the brain and hopefully not be punch drunk in later life :)
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To each his own. Sounds like you practice a good martial art. You're right it will make you better if you do a little full contact but some average dude picking a fight won't ever be ready for someone who punches and kicks 3 times as hard and faster than him. I am overweight and out of shape but every couple of years I will go to a class and spar with boxing rules to see what I'm made of. I don't practice any more but I more than hold my own because I used to practice a little point fighting and have drilled so much. I don't ever go all out but I always surprise people because I look like a wimp. I still punch very hard and fast and my spacing is good. Lol....It's always a treat to box with a young in shape dude bigger than you and surprise the hell out of them. It's good every once in a while to take that risk but since I am not gonna make money at it and going to work with a black eye is frowned upon I will just do the heavy stuff rarely.
 
Enshin karate may also be worthy of mention:

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Knockdown rules plus a limited sort of clinching with sweeps, throws and knees. You're not allowed to take grips on both the left and right side of your opponent's body simultaneously, God only knows why. Permits knockouts, but has a point system such that a certain number of throws/sweeps will immediately win the match. Throws/sweeps immediately followed up by a controlled attack to the grounded opponent are awarded more points.

More popular in Europe and America than Japan: the honbu is in Denver. An offshoot of Ashihara karate, which I believe is rather similar in terms of technical syllabus but doesn't have standardized competition rules.
 
Ooogooman said:
Enshin karate may also be worthy of mention:


Knockdown rules plus a limited sort of clinching with sweeps, throws and knees. You're not allowed to take grips on both the left and right side of your opponent's body simultaneously, God only knows why. Permits knockouts, but has a point system such that a certain number of throws/sweeps will immediately win the match. Throws/sweeps immediately followed up by a controlled attack to the grounded opponent are awarded more points.

More popular in Europe and America than Japan: the honbu is in Denver. An offshoot of Ashihara karate, which I believe is rather similar in terms of technical syllabus but doesn't have standardized competition rules.
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As much as I like Enshin and Ashihara, they are pretty much just minor variations on knockdown. I was thinking about posting an ashihara or enshin video in knockdown section in the OP, but I could not find any vid that seemed to be suitable. I didnt really think they were distinct enough to warrant a separate mention, any more than shidokan, byakuren or world oyama or any of the other organizations using minor variations. Knockdown karate is just knockdown karate.
And, especially when talking to uninitiated (like this thread was intended for), delving too deep into the subtleties just confuses things, and I tried to show more generalized groupings.
After all, there are several variations of each competition format, as each sport organization seems to feel compelled to make minor adaptation to their rule versions. Even the different kyokushin factions have slight variations in their knockdown rules.
 
French contact karate.
One of the fighters is Karim Ghajji, who is fighting in the reserve fight of the Glory Welterweight tournament on Glory 13 next month.

(edited into OP)
 
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