So Jones is greater than DC, but scared to fight in the bigger weightclass DC is champ in?

[Captain Herb]

Not that I have heard. I heard early in his career that he would eventually end up at HW. Not sure why he would need to go to HW when he still has challenges at LHW. He would have cleaned out the LHW division if he hadn't F'd up so much and missed so much time but I want to see him vs Gus again. He never fought Rumble before he retired and became a huge HW. There are a few up and coming LHWs that would be a good test for Jones.

I think Jones enjoys the advantages he has at LHW and is in no hurry to leave for uncharted waters. He's had plenty of exposure to top heavyweights in training like Mir and Overeem and I think that if he truly thought he was a match for them he would be more receptive to fights at HW. I think AO actually sent him to the hospital at one point...

 

[mkess101]

You're stretching.

Not every big man can make it in the NFL. Jones would not beat every HW, you and I both know that. If that was the case, Jones would of went up. Jones would be at a disadvantage fighting at HW. Guys like Miocic, Lewis, Ngannou, JDS, Werdum and Velasquez would give him fits or would knock him the fuck out. There's a difference between getting tagged by Machida, Evans, Gus and DC versus getting tagged by Miocic, Lewis, Ngannou and JDS.

Bader is about to win the Bellator HW championship. DC is unbeaten at HW.

It is just astounding to me the people actually believe a somewhat bulked up Jones wouldn't be favored over any HW on the planet.

**shrug**

Carry on in fantasyland I guess...

 

[mkess101]

I think Jones enjoys the advantages he has at LHW and is in no hurry to leave for uncharted waters. He's had plenty of exposure to top heavyweights in training like Mir and Overeem and I think that if he truly thought he was a match for them he would be more receptive to fights at HW. I think AO actually sent him to the hospital at one point...

Mir is my favorite fighter and has been since he entered the UFC.

He went out of his way to say that Jones would have zero issue wrecking HW's if he ever decided to move up. And while training partners often speak highly of each other, Mir had zero reason to specifically reference Jones at HW.

 

[Lay N Pray 101]

Bader is about to win the Bellator HW championship. DC is unbeaten at HW.

It is just astounding to me the people actually believe a somewhat bulked up Jones wouldn't be favored over any HW on the planet.

**shrug**

Carry on in fantasyland I guess...

Who is talking about Bellator?
Where did I mention Bellator?
I'm pretty sure the HWs I mentioned are all in the UFC. And no, even a bulked up Jones WON'T beat EVERY heavyweight in the UFC. Getting "bulked up" isn't going to help you win fights at HW. I don't Jones can take a flush shot from Lewis like he did against Rashad.

It seems like you have bought property in "Fantasy Land" since you believe Jones would walk through every HW in the UFC.

 

[Captain Herb]

My suspicion is his fear stems from getting his ass kicked by his brothers his whole life.

Totally. Jon Jones is not the most clever person when it comes to concealing his motivations, fears, and anxieties and the fact that he repeatedly points to getting beat up by his larger brothers tells the story of why he has never tried himself at HW. Also, the only time I can recall that he expressed any confidence in fighting at HW was during his hit and run suspension when he was powerlifting, and clearly on the juice.

 

[Oooxente]

Doesnt really make sense does it?
If he was that good
- he wouldnt be affraid to fight an actual heavyweight
- he wouldnt need to he steroided
- he is 10 years younger

All in all, Jones just has DC's number although unknown what would happen at HW without needles.
But Jones admission he is scared to fight a true hw means he admits he knows he cant compete at that level

Compare with Cormier a guy who will fight anyone, drug free, at age 40 and the current baddest SOB on the planet.

Unless Jones is willing to fight anyone at heavyweight, he is admitting he is not the GOAT. He is admitting he cant accomplish what DC is able to do in the higher weightclass. He will always be no.2 to DC
He will be the guy who ruled lhw on drugs, but couldnt make it in the upper weightclass.

The “logic”behind is the fact that Pokes beat DC twice.
If he got USADAd once one fight after their first fight and then USADAd AGAIN when they fought a second time?
That doesn’t matter...
<{CMPALM}>

He beat DC so whatever Cormier did before or after is irrelevant.

 

[DesiredUserName]

Jones is basically living off of a fight he won practically .... FOUR years ago. Hasn't done much since. How do we know what he could do now?

 

[Captain Herb]

Mir is my favorite fighter and has been since he entered the UFC.

He went out of his way to say that Jones would have zero issue wrecking HW's if he ever decided to move up. And while training partners often speak highly of each other, Mir had zero reason to specifically reference Jones at HW.

I'm sure he could wreck some heavyweights but he also knows that on the wrong night, he could get flat-lined by a journeyman. It's just a different game and he doesn't show any interest in it

 

[mkess101]

Who is talking about Bellator?
Where did I mention Bellator?
I'm pretty sure the HWs I mentioned are all in the UFC. And no, even a bulked up Jones WON'T beat EVERY heavyweight in the UFC. Getting "bulked up" isn't going to help you win fights at HW. I don't Jones can take a flush shot from Lewis like he did against Rashad.

It seems like you have bought property in "Fantasy Land" since you believe Jones would walk through every HW in the UFC.

Bader was a LHW. He just wrecked Matt Mitrione at HW right? Completely dominated him. Mitrione KO'd Black Beast stiff in the UFC. See how Bader in Bellator has some relevance now? I sure hope i don't need to explain it more clearly than this...

The reality is that Jones (assuming he beats Gus somewhat clearly) would be a betting favorite vs EVERY HW in the UFC if he then chose to move up.

My point wasn't that I absolutely KNOW that Jones would beat them all. My point is you assuming he couldn't handle their power and would surely lose fights to some of them is idiotic. He'd be favored over them all, so him making a run and dominating at HW is way less far fetched than him falling flat there.

So...it's still you in fantasyland. You are welcome back to reality anytime though.

 

[mkess101]

I'm sure he could wreck some hevyweights but he also knows that on the wrong night, he could get flat-lined by a journeyman. It's just a different game and he doesn't show any interest in it

Possibly sure. But DC has never lost at HW. Jones would have the same grappling and cardio advantages at HW that DC has (if not more). He still has a longer reach than anyone at HW.

Most of these huge punchers at HW have other glaring holes that a fighting savant like Jones could exploit.

 

[Lay N Pray 101]

Bader was a LHW. He just wrecked Matt Mitrione at HW right? Completely dominated him. Mitrione KO'd Black Beast stiff in the UFC. See how Bader in Bellator has some relevance now? I sure hope i don't need to explain it more clearly than this...

The reality is that Jones (assuming he beats Gus somewhat clearly) would be a betting favorite vs EVERY HW in the UFC if he then chose to move up.

My point wasn't that I absolutely KNOW that Jones would beat them all. My point is you assuming he couldn't handle their power and would surely lose fights to some of them is idiotic. He'd be favored over them all, so him making a run and dominating at HW is way less far fetched than him falling flat there.

So...it's still you in fantasyland. You are welcome back to reality anytime though.

Now you're doing this MMA cross organization bullshit. It clear that Mitrione is not the same fighter he was back then and neither is Lewis. Fighters do progress, you do know that, right? You bringing up Bader and Bellator is completely irrelevant to what we were talking about. Bellator itself is fucking shallow. So shallow that they had to use LHWs and MWs to compete in their fucking HW tournament.

You can be favored all you want. I'm not talking about the numbers and lines. I'm talking about you saying "Jones would beat every single HW. Every...last...one". And then you use MMA math, Bellator and Ryan Fucking Bader as a logical explanation, like deadass?!?!

There's a reason why Jones hasn't stepped foot in the HW division, because he knows what will happen.

 

[mkess101]

Now you're doing this MMA cross organization bullshit. It clear that Mitrione is not the same fighter he was back then and neither is Lewis. Fighters do progress, you do know that, right? You bringing up Bader and Bellator is completely irrelevant to what we were talking about. Bellator itself is fucking shallow. So shallow that they had to use LHWs and MWs to compete in their fucking HW tournament.

You can be favored all you want. I'm not talking about the numbers and lines. I'm talking about you saying "Jones would beat every single HW. Every...last...one". And then you use MMA math, Bellator and Ryan Fucking Bader as a logical explanation, like deadass?!?!

There's a reason why Jones hasn't stepped foot in the HW division, because he knows what will happen.

Mitrione isn't any worse, his grappling has always been shit. Same as Black Beast and most of the UFC HW roster. The point with Bader is that he can completely negate a bigger HW like Mitrione's power advantage by just using superior grappling skills to dominate him on the mat. We just saw DC do it to BB too. Jones has proven to be a superior MMA wrestler and grappler to both of them. How the hell do you not see him using a similar gameplan to wear out all these big hitters you think he's scared of?

I actually WAS talking about lines and stuff to give us an idea of how the experts would view Jones' chances at HW. Now you're making up things I didn't even say? Seriously? Please show me where I said "Jones would beat every single HW. Every. Last. One." You can't because I never said it. I said he'd be favored over them all, and he would be. And there's a REASON he would be.

 

[AlwaysWonder]

Doesnt really make sense does it?
If he was that good
- he wouldnt be affraid to fight an actual heavyweight
- he wouldnt need to he steroided
- he is 10 years younger

All in all, Jones just has DC's number although unknown what would happen at HW without needles.
But Jones admission he is scared to fight a true hw means he admits he knows he cant compete at that level

Compare with Cormier a guy who will fight anyone, drug free, at age 40 and the current baddest SOB on the planet.

Unless Jones is willing to fight anyone at heavyweight, he is admitting he is not the GOAT. He is admitting he cant accomplish what DC is able to do in the higher weightclass. He will always be no.2 to DC
He will be the guy who ruled lhw on drugs, but couldnt make it in the upper weightclass.

I swear DC fans are becoming as pathetic and cringe as Ronda Fraud Rousey fans.

Let me get this straight...

Jon Jones the guy who absolutely destroyed prime DC not once but TWICE...last time coming off a TWO YEAR LAYOFF...is scared of the paper champ cry me a river DC?

The guy he made cry like a mark in front of millions of people? Yea...he is scared of THAT guy.

 

[TalibaN]

Jones is cheater. Period !

 

[Dbreiden83080]

I don't think Jon Jones is scared to fight DC at HW, I just think he is being strategic in the fights he takes. He knows HW is a different animal and he doesn't have at least one of the necessary tools to thrive there which is power in his hands. He has a chin at LHW but it's untested against heavier hitters. A fight with Rumble could have shed some light on that. Otherwise he has the size and skill to do well there with the exception that his reach advantage will diminish.

He knocked out DC in that last contest, so he has power. And DC just went about cherry picking a opponent. He was injured until Lewis suddenly became available and the UFC obviously offered him the right amount of money to take it. Every fighter plays a degree of gamesmanship with certain fights or opponents. I can’t think of one example of anyone that did not. Other than maybe some of the classic Mexican warriors that were boxers. But the best face the best, and Jones has always done that.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Move up to the weakest division in mma? Lol

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Jones is cheater. Period !

DC cheated to make weight, equally bad

 

[Captain Herb]

Possibly sure. But DC has never lost at HW. Jones would have the same grappling and cardio advantages at HW that DC has (if not more). He still has a longer reach than anyone at HW.

Most of these huge punchers at HW have other glaring holes that a fighting savant like Jones could exploit.

The two prerequisites for success at HW are power and chin and DC has both. Whether Jon's chin would translate to HW or if he could develop power are unknown. If Jon can't develop HW power, they will walk through his defenses and engage him in the clinch or in the pocket. Although Jon is good at this range at LHW, this is where anything can happen at HW, even against a less skilled opponent. My guess is that if he can't knock out LHWs despite being one of the largest LHW, He will have problems at HW. Sure, he caught DC with a headkick but DC is unusually short and even then, he ducked into it. I don't see him going Crocop on the entire division of guys his size or larger. I think he could well have some success based on matchups there but I don't think he would be a dominant champ, or even champ at all. I hope we find out and he transitions toward the latter end of his career.

 

[mkess101]

The two prerequisites for success at HW are power and chin and DC has both. Whether Jon's chin would translate to HW or if he could develop power are unknown. If Jon can't develop HW power, they will walk through his defenses and engage him in the clinch or in the pocket. Although Jon is good at this range at LHW, this is where anything can happen at HW, even against a less skilled opponent. My guess is that if he can't knock out LHWs despite being one of the largest LHW, He will have problems at HW. Sure, he caught DC with a headkick but DC is unusually short and even then, he ducked into it. I don't see him going Crocop on the entire division of guys his size or larger. I think he could well have some success based on matchups there but I don't think he would be a dominant champ, or even champ at all. I hope we find out and he transitions toward the latter end of his career.

DC landed cleanly on Jones a lot. Jones ate them. DC obviously has power to KO guys like Stipe, right?

We can say DC just has way more power when he's bigger (likely true), but then why would we assume a bigger version of Jones wouldn't also pack a lot more power?

I agree that I hope we get to find out.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

I think Jones enjoys the advantages he has at LHW and is in no hurry to leave for uncharted waters. He's had plenty of exposure to top heavyweights in training like Mir and Overeem and I think that if he truly thought he was a match for them he would be more receptive to fights at HW. I think AO actually sent him to the hospital at one point...

I agree with this for sure. I am certain he would fight either Brock or DC at HW but no reason for him to chase after anyone else.