So is Felipe Pena best no-gi in the world and Buchecha best gi?

Evenflow80

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Simple question:

I know Gordon Ryan is killing it in no-go but truth is Pena has two wins over him and not that far apart/long ago. Would you argue that Pena is the best no-gi guy in the world and that Buchecha is the best at gi? Or would you say its Roger Gracie?

I know Roger's resume in impressive, but Buchecha is just so much more active (and winning) in what is arguably the toughest crop of BB's the world has ever seen.

Thoughts?

And here is a bonus question: would Marcelo Garcia at his prime beat current prime Pena in no-gi?
 
Pena is the best no gi current competitor
Buchecha is the best current gi competitor
Roger spanked buchechas ass, and he is still far from Rogers accomplishments.
Pena is too big for marcelo to deal with.
 
Pena is the best no gi current competitor
Buchecha is the best current gi competitor
Roger spanked buchechas ass, and he is still far from Rogers accomplishments.
Pena is too big for marcelo to deal with.

Pretty much, though I think Gordon deserves some shine for being far more active on the no-gi circuit than Pena. And I think he's improved enough in the last 1-2 years that he'd have great chances at beating Felipe today.
 
Pretty much, though I think Gordon deserves some shine for being far more active on the no-gi circuit than Pena. And I think he's improved enough in the last 1-2 years that he'd have great chances at beating Felipe today.

I agree, I dont know who would I put money on if I had to bet in a 3rd match, but till pena loses, hes the king.
 
Buchecha is the best active competitor in the gi, but Roger choked him out in the conditions we already all know (age difference, inactivity from comp etc.). I think he'll always be considered the best one.
 
speaking of roger, its the same thing ive learned about tom brady-never bet against the goat
 
I agree, I dont know who would I put money on if I had to bet in a 3rd match, but till pena loses, hes the king.

I think Gordon vs. Pena has a good chance of being another Rafa vs. Cobrinha, where Pena comes on top in some early battles and then Gordon goes on a long and decisive winning streak. kind-of a shame that Pena will be fighting Galvao in the superfight at the next ADCC instead of facing Gordon in the brackets
 
I think Gordon vs. Pena has a good chance of being another Rafa vs. Cobrinha, where Pena comes on top in some early battles and then Gordon goes on a long and decisive winning streak. kind-of a shame that Pena will be fighting Galvao in the superfight at the next ADCC instead of facing Gordon in the brackets

this super fight thing has to stop. No one gives a fuck about it, its like an exhibition match.
 
The superfights consistently sucked for like 3+ times.
 
I think Gordon vs. Pena has a good chance of being another Rafa vs. Cobrinha, where Pena comes on top in some early battles and then Gordon goes on a long and decisive winning streak

Gordon has to win against Pena before it turns into a rivalry. Currently it's more like Roger vs Drysdale then Rafa vs Cobrinha.
 
this super fight thing has to stop. No one gives a fuck about it, its like an exhibition match.
The superfights consistently sucked for like 3+ times.


It's just honestly the worst; instead of seeing them compete and put their skills on display with everyone else, you've got two of the best guys in the world at any given time effectively sidelined for the year.
 
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It's just honestly the worst; instead of seeing them compete and put their skills on display with everyone else, you've got two of the best guys in the world at any given time effectively sidelined for the year.
If they didn't just mostly do bad wrestling in the super fights it would be cool. The -1 for guard pulling and no real stalling call rules suck.
 
If they didn't just mostly do bad wrestling in the super fights it would be cool. The -1 for guard pulling and no real stalling call rules suck.


This conversation has probably been done before, but if they scored forceouts like in freestyle (even if it's just something like an advantage) that would greatly increase the level of engagement on the feet. Having a shot clock as punishment for stalling calls also like freestyle would also be great. The special rules for guard pulling are weird; it'd be a lot simper to just be logically consistent and score getting on top; applies the same whether it's a takedown or reversal.

Another thing is the fact that the criteria for what 'counts' as a takedown or not itself is so restrictive; if forcing a guy to turn into turtle to avoid getting put on his back counted as a takedown like it does in pretty much any other scoring ruleset ever, a lot of these matches that were going into double overtimes would be over after just the first period.

I think the 'no points for first X minutes' rule is an interesting idea that works, lets people get too the positions they want to get too before scoring starts; but then the problem is that they swerve themselves suddenly and get rid of it for the finals for some reason, so you have these exciting matches as people move up through the brackets, then in the final match it's a stinker.
 
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This conversation has probably been done before, but if they scored forceouts like in freestyle (even if it's just something like an advantage) that would greatly increase the level of engagement on the feet. Having a shot clock as punishment for stalling calls also like freestyle would also be great. The special rules for guard pulling are weird; it'd be a lot simper to just be logically consistent and score getting on top; applies the same whether it's a takedown or reversal.

Another thing is the fact that the criteria for what 'counts' as a takedown or not itself is so restrictive; if forcing a guy to turn into turtle to avoid getting put on his back counted as a takedown like it does in pretty much any other scoring ruleset ever, a lot of these matches that were going into double overtimes would be over after just the first period.

I think the 'no points for first X minutes' rule is an interesting idea that works, lets people get too the positions they want to get too before scoring starts; but then the problem is that they swerve themselves suddenly and get rid of it for the finals for some reason, so you have these exciting matches as people move up through the brackets, then in the final match it's a stinker.
They don't get rid of the special rule in the finals the first half still doesn't give you points if you pull guard you get -1 but if you get taken down it's still 0-0.
 
The superfights consistently sucked for like 3+ times.
The only really fun ones in my training lifespan have been Andre vs Braulio and Jacare vs Braulio.

The rest have been pretty lackluster.

I think a big problem is the current superfight champ faces the previous absolute winner, and it ends up being 4 years since a defending superfight champion has won their bracket. So if Pena wins the superfight next year, then by the time he defends the superfight title in 2021 it will have been 4 years since his bracket run in the absolute in 2017. People just forget in 4 years and/or lose some interest.

Also besides it being for money it doesn't seem like much else is on the line.
 
They don't get rid of the special rule in the finals the first half still doesn't give you points if you pull guard you get -1 but if you get taken down it's still 0-0.


Yeah that's the problem, it should be one or the other, but they just end up with the worst of both worlds.
 
Hey neeed call for more standing stalling calls it’s really disgusting to watch 2 guys bitch slap for 10 minutes straight
 
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We definitely need better stalling calls. I see people on the internet(and I'm not slagging off any particular Sherdoggers here) make fun of judo and how newer rules make it "less effective". And then I see discussions like in this thread, about boring matches and stalling in BJJ/sub wrestling.

The reality is, you'll find stalling and exploiting rules(or lack thereof) in any sport. At some point, we have to come to terms with the idea that some rules just make a sport better to watch.

Having said that... Bring back leg grabs in IJF judo!
 
We definitely need better stalling calls. I see people on the internet(and I'm not slagging off any particular Sherdoggers here) make fun of judo and how newer rules make it "less effective". And then I see discussions like in this thread, about boring matches and stalling in BJJ/sub wrestling.

The reality is, you'll find stalling and exploiting rules(or lack thereof) in any sport. At some point, we have to come to terms with the idea that some rules just make a sport better to watch.

Having said that... Bring back leg grabs in IJF judo!

The problem is even worst imho when there’s nothing to grab on, you could literally Orlando sanchez your wAy to gold by being huge stocky and stall on your feet...if you don’t get stalling calls standing, then at least do not penalized guard pulls, and viceversa, if you do penalize guard pulls, then introduce more stalling calls...
 
It is like ultra hw gi competition...

You train bjj for 10 years.... do shit judo for 10 min...
 
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