So, Big John McCarthy Stated That...

[12ga.]

Nah, Dropping bombs on an unconscious opponent is a dick move. This is a martial arts competition not a fight to the death.

Hendos not qualified to judge that. Did you see MD after his name? I think not.

 

[Karelinator]

1 - knees to the top of a head, if fighters are in north/south and the fighter on top throws knees, can do irreversible damage to the neck/spin

Fighters had been throwing knees from North/South trough the entire PRIDE history, and I can't really recall any 'irreversible damage', hell there weren't that many KOs from that position.

It does offer some dangerous possibilities, but in reality, fighters have to scramble/raise their whole body in order to not scratch the mat with them, let alone land something good.

And opponent is moving and scrambling up the entire time.

Worst, scariest beatdowns in PRIDE came from punches, funnily enough.

2 - if a downed fighter has their head up against (or even close to the cage) the cage, a kick to the face/head can do serious damage if the head being kicked just gets crushed against the cage when it gets kicked.

I don't think it would be really possible, cage has a lot of give

 

[Irishwhiskey119]

You are wrong.

I was stated on MULTIPLE occasions that I DO NOT support the "downed opponent rule." The first rule of fighting is "protect yourself at all times."

If you are down you should protect yourself from any type of blow coming towards you, if you can't, then the fight should be called.

For me the down opponent rule is STUPID. Knees and kicks to the front or side of the head should be allowed. A down fighter should be using his hands to defend himself, not to touch the mat so he doesn't get hit.

I am just challenging John McCarthy's reason for the down opponent rule, and showing why that reason is kind of stupid.

I am never wrong. It's the referees job to stop the fight which they did not do until after Henderson hit those "late' shots. Always fight until the referee stops the fight because opponents have woken up immediately from knocked out state.

Go watch something safe and protected because this is the sport where the entire point of the contest is to hit your opponent as hard as you can to damage them or knock them out. Those that can't handle the violence need to get the steppin.

 

[Just Creed]

Bisping was winding Dan up the whole of tuf. He deserved the extra shots.

 

[Hoof Hearted]

Much butthurt I sense in this one..

Dan Henderson is a dirty fighter?? Because he Ko'd Bisping and Fedor legally?
He is revered for that. That KO of Bisping is HOF worthy. And the follow up
flying punch was even better.



Fedor could care less..

He didn't follow up after the Fedor KO. So it seems he doesn't need to do this. The follow up on Bisping was probably very satisfying though, considering all the shit talking Bisping was doing in the build up to the fight.

 

[tru3f4n]

The reason for "no knees and kicks to the head of a downed opponent" is to protect the fighter from extra shots when he is KO.

I thought, "ok, that is a reasonable rule," and then I saw a gif of Dan Henderson (one of the DIRTIEST fighters I have ever seen) getting extra shots on Hector Lombard, and he can't forget Michael Bisping and Fedor.

All these cases the opponents were out, and Dan Henderson squeezed in some DEVASTATING blows to the head of a downed opponent.

So, for the rule of the "downed opponent" to make sense, they need to say "No blows whatsoever" to the head of a downed opponent.

Brain damage is brain damage. The opponent's eyes are rolled back and Dan Henderson is squeezing in extra shots with his elbows and fists, you can tell me that, "because he is using his arms it is less dangerous than using his legs, and that's why we have the rule."

It is STUPID. haha. Trauma to the brain is trauma to the brain. If the rule was really to protect the fighters, then fighters should NOT be hit on the head with ANY type of strike when they are considered "down."

Thoughts.

PS

To some of you who are going to make it a Dan Henderson "is only following the rules" argument (1) This is not an argument about Dan Henderson, I am just using him as an example because he is the best case of showing why the downed opponent rule is stupid as it stands (2) If Mark Hunt can see that his opponent's eyes have rolled back, and walk away, so should Dan Henderson, because he doesn't, it makes him dirty.

Wanderlei vs Kondo Baroni vs Minowa

 

[Zorrox]

Hendos not qualified to judge that. Did you see MD after his name? I think not.

You don't have to be an MD to tell you just knocked someone the fuck out. He knew exactly what he was doing, but didn't care about giving his opponents brain damage.

Furthermore, the brain damage is increased exponentially when someone gets extra trauma to the head after they already been concussed/knocked out. It's true these fighters sign up to get hurt, however they have the expectation the fight will be ended before their most important organ is ruined while they are incapable of defending.

Hendo is an OG all American badass so people love him, but it doesn't excuse him from trying to cause extra damage when the fight is clearly done. He's a dick

 

[linvillegorge]

Bisping was winding Dan up the whole of tuf. He deserved the extra shots.

Yep. Bisping's mouth wrote a check his ass couldn't cash.

 

[Thaijitsu612]

Mark Hunt doesn't follow up because he has no ground game and doesn't want to gas out

Is that he went into werdum and struves guard?

 

[P0NYBOY]

He didn't follow up after the Fedor KO. So it seems he doesn't need to do this. The follow up on Bisping was probably very satisfying though, considering all the shit talking Bisping was doing in the build up to the fight.

Watch the video......henderson punches under the arm to stun Fedor and then punches to the back of the head.

 

[welcometohavoc]

The reason for "no knees and kicks to the head of a downed opponent" is to protect the fighter from extra shots when he is KO.

I thought, "ok, that is a reasonable rule," and then I saw a gif of Dan Henderson (one of the DIRTIEST fighters I have ever seen) getting extra shots on Hector Lombard, and he can't forget Michael Bisping and Fedor.

All these cases the opponents were out, and Dan Henderson squeezed in some DEVASTATING blows to the head of a downed opponent.

So, for the rule of the "downed opponent" to make sense, they need to say "No blows whatsoever" to the head of a downed opponent.

Brain damage is brain damage. The opponent's eyes are rolled back and Dan Henderson is squeezing in extra shots with his elbows and fists, you can tell me that, "because he is using his arms it is less dangerous than using his legs, and that's why we have the rule."

It is STUPID. haha. Trauma to the brain is trauma to the brain. If the rule was really to protect the fighters, then fighters should NOT be hit on the head with ANY type of strike when they are considered "down."

Thoughts.

PS

To some of you who are going to make it a Dan Henderson "is only following the rules" argument (1) This is not an argument about Dan Henderson, I am just using him as an example because he is the best case of showing why the downed opponent rule is stupid as it stands (2) If Mark Hunt can see that his opponent's eyes have rolled back, and walk away, so should Dan Henderson, because he doesn't, it makes him dirty.

Everyone always says Dan is classy and humble but I've never seen it. Guy comes off as the typical douche jock from high school.

 

[Deleted member 499399]

thinly veiled hendo hatemeeting

hendo is the fucking man, all you pussies can get rekt

What kind of mma fan doesn't like Henderson? He's a mw that fights hws by standing in front of them lobbing bombs and going for the ko.

 

[Just Creed]

Yep. Bisping's mouth wrote a check his ass couldn't cash.

He's always mouthing off at his opponents and when they mouth back at him, he gets angry lol. We all know someone like that. He wanted Hendo mad, well he got it

 

[Lockard The GOAT]

The argument is not about refs or fighters. It is about John McCarthy stating that "the down opponent rule is to protect a fighter from unnecessary shots when he is out." I think that rationale is silly, because a fist or elbow to an opponent who is already out is also devastating.

Now, some people will argue that a fist or elbow is not as bad as a knee or foot. That is also silly.

Here is why? If the pass rate for an exam is 70% and you get 60% and your stud ymate gets 50%. You both failed. So, arguing about who failed the worse is just silly.

Strikes to the head of a defenseless person are bad regardless of whether they are fists/elbows or knees/foot. If you are making a rule to protect down fighters, then no strikes to the head should be allowed.

if you are going to be selective, then you can just easily remove the rule, especially when the rules is so complicated even the officials and fighters and commissioners are not clear about it.

So you're basically refusing to acknowledge that there's different levels of risk, and that there's no logic in admitting that some things are too risky or hazardous in general to be allowed to happen?

 

[flairleguccijoints]

A hit to the head while conscious is very different from a hit when you are not.

This is why MMA is more dangerous than boxing.

I'm sure some winy MMA fan is going to read that and have a tantrum, crying that his feelings are just as valid as facts and science, because of feels.

So the sport you compete in determines the danger of the blow to the head , based on the consciousness of the person struck?

Interesting...

Realize plenty of boxers have been out on their feet and caught tons of blows, Morrison v Mercer for one.

 

[kenetics]

Knees and kicks are worse than punches.

So we stop kicks altogether?

 

[kenetics]

So you're basically refusing to acknowledge that there's different levels of risk, and that there's no logic in admitting that some things are too risky or hazardous in general to be allowed to happen?

Well pride allowed stomps and kicks to a down opponent and no one was seriously hurt.

 

[Jehannum]

I think Mark Hunt is a POS for walking away from his opponents after he drops them, and if I was the ref I'd DQ him for refusing to fight. Most fighters prepare for the incoming GNP when they get dropped and don't expect to be given time to get up, so they lay there ready to pull guard. How can it be determined that the fighter is unable to defend themselves if they aren't being attacked and are still conscious? Mark Hunt is tricking referees into stopping fights that might not be over yet, and they need to get wise to it.

 

[Lockard The GOAT]

Well pride allowed stomps and kicks to a down opponent and no one was seriously hurt.

A lot of people who text and drive don't get into car wrecks either; That doesn't mean it isn't foolish to do so.

 

[Mikey Palangio]

So you're basically refusing to acknowledge that there's different levels of risk, and that there's no logic in admitting that some things are too risky or hazardous in general to be allowed to happen?

So, launching yourself in the air and dropping a thunderous elbow on an unconscious opponent is less risky than kneeing an opponent in the head, when he is FULLY conscious on one knee, and can easily use his hands to block the knee or the kick.

How does anybody come to that conclusion?

Dustin Poirier was fully conscious on one knee, and in stead of playing a game, he could have used his hands to block the knees, grapple and get himself in a better position, but he chose not to do that because of a stupid rule that gives him a pass and a way out of a bad position.

In comparison, Michael Bisping was out cold with his arms stiff in the air (a sign of trauma to the nervous system), and it is was perfectly legally for his opponent to launch himself in the air and drop an unnecessary elbow from hell into his head.

Logically, which situation had the eyes level of risk for the fighter? Obviously hitting an unconscious fighter is the riskier situation.

Fists and elbows can KO a fighter, which is a sign of excessive trauma to the head. So, a fighter who is getting KO probably already has significant brain damage, and that is why his brain is shutting down for self-preservation.

So, having a rule that states "we will accept brain trauma when it comes to fists and elbows, but not when it comes to knees and kicks, and only in this specific position of the fight" seems kind of ridiculous to me, if the rationale is to "protect the fighter when he is KO and can't defend himself" as John McCarthy has stated.

A fighter intentionally putting his knee and hands down on the mat is NOT KO, and should be expected to "defend himself at ALL TIMES." He should not be given a pass by the rules.

Another stupid thing about that rules is that it gives grapplers even more advantages over strikers. Case in point, Ryan Hall vs Grey Maynard.

So, Ryan Hall can sit all day when Grey Maynard tries to strike, and because of a stupid rule, Grey can't kick Ryan in the face, so Grey has to get closer to throw punches and get tangled in a grappling exchange where he doesn't have the advantage.

It is a joke. hahaha