Similarities between Thai's and African American fighters?

[Julius_Caesar]

I know race can be a touchy subject and not trying to offend anyone. Just a question for personal research. Does anyone think there are similarities between Thai's in MT/boxing and African Americans/Cubans in boxing. Especially some of the Thai's from North East Thailand. Obviously MuayThai and Boxing are 2 different sports but I'm talking more about the way they fight rather than the actual style of fighting. Like the reflexes, distance, movement, rhythm, speed and timing.

Watching Saenchai in his prime or watching Petpanomrung back when he was fighting 126 or lower really reminds me of a young Floyd Mayweather back when he was fighting at 130-135. That cat like reflexes but also the rhythm and a smoothness to the way they fight. I've heard timing and reflexes comes with experience which is true but do you think there is more to it? Like genetics? Some fighters have been fighting for years and have horrible reflexes and some seem to have it straight away.

Genetically eastern Europeans like Dzhabar Askerov and Gennady Golovkin tend to be very heavy handed and powerful whilst Thai's (and other southeast Asians like Filipinos) and black fighters have really good speed and reflexes. Obviously not all but still a lot.

Shakur Stevenson (Blue) at the last Olympics:


Somjit Jongjohor (Blue) at the 2008 Olympics:

 

[Snubnoze707]

 

[Yodsanan]

 

[Julius_Caesar]

LOL what?

 

[shiftyguy]

A common belief held among cambodians is that the, darker skin, farmer type south east asians are much more tougher and athletic than the east asian derived cambodians. From personal anecdotes I find the darker skin khmers/native to be more muscular, stocky and athletic especially when they have adequate nutrition and protein

 

[Julius_Caesar]

A common belief held among cambodians is that the, darker skin, farmer type south east asians are much more tougher and athletic than the east asian derived cambodians. From personal anecdotes I find the darker skin khmers/native to be more muscular, stocky and athletic especially when they have adequate nutrition and protein

Yeah I've noticed this also. Some great Thai fighters are darker skinned like Kongsak, Saenchai, all the Kiatmoo9 guys, Buakaw, Samkor etc and tough as nails. Samkor is a great example. Loved the way he moved. Some great lighter skinned Thai fighters as well but mostly the darker North Eastern Thai's. Where do you think this comes from?

 

[shiftyguy]

Yeah I've noticed this also. Some great Thai fighters are darker skinned like Kongsak, Saenchai, all the Kiatmoo9 guys, Buakaw, Samkor etc and tough as nails. Samkor is a great example. Loved the way he moved. Some great lighter skinned Thai fighters as well but mostly the darker North Eastern Thai's. Where do you think this comes from?

I believe it is a mixture of genes, poverty, lack of opportunities and strenuous farm work. Also can never underestimate the power of motivation, determination to get out of poverty. In this aspect issan and african americans show parallels

 

[Julius_Caesar]

I believe it is a mixture of genes, poverty, lack of opportunities and strenuous farm work. Also can never underestimate the power of motivation, determination to get out of poverty. In this aspect issan and african americans show parallels

Great answer

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

I know race can be a touchy subject and not trying to offend anyone. Just a question for personal research. Does anyone think there are similarities between Thai's in MT/boxing and African Americans/Cubans in boxing. Especially some of the Thai's from North East Thailand. Obviously MuayThai and Boxing are 2 different sports but I'm talking more about the way they fight rather than the actual style of fighting. Like the reflexes, distance, movement, rhythm, speed and timing.

Watching Saenchai in his prime or watching Petpanomrung back when he was fighting 126 or lower really reminds me of a young Floyd Mayweather back when he was fighting at 130-135. That cat like reflexes but also the rhythm and a smoothness to the way they fight. I've heard timing and reflexes comes with experience which is true but do you think there is more to it? Like genetics? Some fighters have been fighting for years and have horrible reflexes and some seem to have it straight away.

Genetically eastern Europeans like Dzhabar Askerov and Gennady Golovkin tend to be very heavy handed and powerful whilst Thai's (and other southeast Asians like Filipinos) and black fighters have really good speed and reflexes. Obviously not all but still a lot.

Shakur Stevenson (Blue) at the last Olympics:


Somjit Jongjohor (Blue) at the 2008 Olympics:

Not to give credence to a otherwise stupid post...but. Doesn't the North East of Thailand produce the vast majority of it's fighters anyway? So it stands to reason that some great, slick fighters are going to come out of there. Moreover, I once read Anorak say something to the effect that, during the Golden era, the South had a reputation for producing slick fighters: Put, Jaroethong, Samranthong, Hippy, Ole, etc. While fighters from Isan had a reputation for being tough.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

Not to give credence to a otherwise stupid post...but. Doesn't the North East of Thailand produce the vast majority of it's fighters anyway? So it stands to reason that some great, slick fighters are going to come out of there. Moreover, I once read something Anorak said to the effect that, during the Golden era, the South had a reputation for producing slick fighters: Put, Jaroethong, Samranthong, Hippy, Ole, etc. While fighters from Isan had a reputation for being tough.

How is it a stupid post? Especially considering there are Bruce lee vs Saenchai posts in this forum.

And yeah I just realised that. My mistake. I don't think there's much difference with Thai's all over Thailand. Maybe its just the poorer areas in the Northeast which produce harder working and more motivated fighters.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Its the melanin bro, it makes you moooove different.

 

[shiftyguy]

Any one doubting the role of genetics in sports read this


"Asian Indians tend to have more abdominal adipose tissue, less lean body mass (LBM) and higher magnitude of insulin resistance (IR) despite falling in the normal range of body mass index (BMI) [1]. The high value of waist hip ratio in Asian Indians may be due to less lean mass of the hips and greater fat at the levels of waist [2]. Another study showed that Asian Indian men have low muscle mass and 30% more total body fat (BF) than other ethnic groups [3]. Low lean mass is also evident in Asian Indian neonates as compared to white Caucasian neonates [4]"

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0040977


Now tell me if genes affect performance or not? Not saying an indian can never be good at sports just that the likelihood is drastically lower

 

[Yodsanan]

Genetically eastern Europeans like Dzhabar Askerov and Gennady Golovkin tend to be very heavy handed and powerful whilst Thai's (and other southeast Asians like Filipinos) and black fighters have really good speed and reflexes. Obviously not all but still a lot.

Most thai fighters in pro boxing are sluggers. always have been that way.

That cat like reflexes but also the rhythm and a smoothness to the way they fight. I've heard timing and reflexes comes with experience which is true but do you think there is more to it? Like genetics?

no. having 300 more fights then fighters from other nations helps.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

Most thai fighters in pro boxing are sluggers. always have been that way.

Being a slugger is a choice. I'm talking more about their genetic benefits. Floyd at times was a slugger during the early stages of his career.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

no. having 300 more fights then fighters from other nations helps.

Yes it helps obviously but once again I think its a little more complex. Some guys like Gennady Golovkin have had over 300 fights in the amateurs but still shows bad defence and reflexes whilst guys like Victor Nagbe starts training muaythai at 18 and show great reflexes and gives fighters like Buakaw a competitive fight after only 2 years of training.

Genetics plays a big part in sports. No matter how long you've been fighting your not going to get the type of power some of these russians have like GGG. That is pure genetics + training/experience

 

[Julius_Caesar]

 

[Yodsanan]

I like how this thread for once talks about the genetically superiority of asians unlike most part of the mma discussion in here, but that doesn't make it more true.

Yes it helps obviously but once again I think its a little more complex. Some guys like Gennady Golovkin have had over 300 fights in the amateurs but still shows bad defence and reflexes whilst guys like Victor Nagbe starts training muaythai at 18 and yet gives Buakaw a competitive fight after only 2 years of fighting.

that's like the most retarted form of arguing. picking single cases to make people believe the nonsense you're claiming is true.


Fact is there are thousands of thai kids having hundreds of fights before they even turn 18. You're bound to have more slick fighters then fighters from other nations. Has more to do with the prevailing fight culture in thailand, than them having some kind of genetical advantage.

what about it? Should I post a video of a white fighter dodging punches?

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

The style of most thais is going to be determined, in large part, by the camp they're from and their personality and physical attributes. Jockey gym and Sit O produced slick fighters while Muangsurin produced punchers. Same kinds of factors which go into producing fighters of any combat sport and any ethnicity.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

I like how this thread for once talks about the genetically superiority of asians unlike most part of the mma discussion in here

Southeast Asians. Not Asians. Lets make that clear.

genetically superiority

Now your getting defensive. I'm not saying any race in genetically superior. I'm just pointing out certain differences. Did you not see the part where I was talking about the power of Russians. Your an idiot if you think genetics doesn't play a role in sports. I'm sorry if it hurts your feeling but it does!

that's like the most retarted form of arguing. picking single cases to make people believe the nonsense you're claiming is true.

I could use hundreds of more examples if you want about fighters of the same race fighting similar. Its not hard to see.

what about it? Should I post a video of a white fighter dodging punches?

Now your getting defensive. It was just an example bro. This is the problem with writing threads like this. Feelings get hurt and we cant just have a mature conversation.

Fact is there are thousands of thai kids having hundreds of fights before they even turn 18. You're bound to have more slick fighters then fighters from other nations. Has more to do with the prevailing fight culture in thailand, than them having some kind of genetical advantage.

That's exactly why I used Somjit Jongjohor who's a boxer. Not a muaythai fighter. I get that slickness comes with experience but not all the time. Your still going to have MuangThai's and Yodwicha's. But I just felt like Thai fighters even Thai's I've seen out in Thailand who haven't been competing for long have a certain rhythm to the way they fight and that doesn't mean there better than any other race. Thai's dont have the type of power as some eastern Europeans. I think their just better in the speed and movement department.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

The style of most thais is going to be determined, in large part, by the camp they're from and their personality and physical attributes. Jockey gym and Sit O produced slick fighters while Muangsurin produced punchers. Same kinds of factors which go into producing fighters of any combat sport and any ethnicity.

Yes this also