Should knee kicks be legal in mma?

[Chungungo]

Let's list off all the methods used in this fight:
1) Lots of lateral movement to deny push kick opportunities
2) Step back out of range
3) Side step around the kick
4) Step in and jam
5) Raise leg to check
6) Brace leg into direction of kick
7) Counter kick with lead leg


Valentina's counters were just posted above, so here's Rose defending against Waterson. She bounces back to open the range and take some power off the kick and braces her lead leg into it so that it can't be bent backwards. It's not hard.

Also the only way I can see a knee breaking scenario is if you stand up ultra straight.

 

[eternaldarkness]

i see, i had no idea who he was or that was even happening. MMA tends to attract douches, like that guy for example. Hop into the MMA/UFC discussion of sherdog and it will further prove my douche point.

i frequent the ufc forum when i'm feeling frisky and what a bit of a scrap. had some idiot even pretending to be gaston bolanos the other week.

 

[shincheckin]

Also the only way I can see a knee breaking scenario is if you stand up ultra straight.

if its timed correclty and lands clean, it will break. catch a guy when hes stepping forward and bingo. Trick a guy to check your R low kick, and instead knee stomp his other leg, break. quick google search of knee kick shows nothing but "self defense" for the most part.

 

[shincheckin]

i frequent the ufc forum when i'm feeling frisky and what a bit of a scrap. had some idiot even pretending to be gaston bolanos the other week.

filled with spacetimes im sure.

 

[Chungungo]

if its timed correclty and lands clean, it will break. catch a guy when hes stepping forward and bingo. Trick a guy to check your R low kick, and instead knee stomp his other leg, break. quick google search of knee kick shows nothing but "self defense" for the most part.

Self defense but like someone said before, in Savate is common kick, I am all into integral learning but between pros this won´t be so easy or Dalton from Road House would be champion of the UFC with his bouncer knee kick while I repeat that for self defense is great.

 

[eternaldarkness]

filled with spacetimes im sure.
he's busy trolling the grappling forum, not really sure why. i guess the stand forum members just give him to much grief. andymabobs will be glad to see that boycott is starting to take effect.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

if its timed correclty and lands clean, it will break.

Then why does it never happen? I'm going to keep harping on this - because it doesn't happen, I literally can't think of an example of it ever happening.

 

[shincheckin]

Then why does it never happen? I'm going to keep harping on this - because it doesn't happen, I literally can't think of an example of it ever happening.

no worries dude, i consider you a friend and i know we can both make our view points heard without resorting to insults unlike others here.

ok maybe not instantly snapping it in half but enough to cause injury.

WinkleJohns argument is bullshit. everyone is always comparing it with strikes to the head stating getting your knee blown out is safer. Its like hey choose one or the other, how about neither? I have already made several comparisons to this argument but I would like to make some more.

"I rather have dinner with a retired fighter who limps than a retired fighter who cant remember his own name"

How about we have dinner with a fighter than CAN walk and CAN remember his own name?

name one MMA fighter that cant remember his name?

Name one fighter whos knee is destroyed from this move: Wonderboy

Lets take a look at American Football and its tackling rules:

-"To protect players from potentially catastrophic injury, there are some restrictions on tackles and blocks."
- Blocks that occur in the back of the legs and below the knees, initiated below the waist, or clotheslines are also generally prohibited and players who use them are subject to much more severe penalties than other illegal tackles.

But hey lets allow tackles to knees because getting tackled in the head is more dangerous and I rather have dinner with a guy who limps than a guy that cant remember his own name.

If we were that concerned about our NFL players safety, we would just remove tackling all together! what a valid comparison/argument I have with this statement a?

I like the word to protect from potential catastrophic injury. How often does it happen, rarely, but the potential for catastrophic injury is there. Thats why it should be removed. But the potential for catastrophic injury is there with every strike! yes it is. but you cant remove strikes in a striking sport. You can however remove any potential catastrophic strikes, such as the knee to the head while the opponent is down or the knee stomp.

 

[shincheckin]

Self defense but like someone said before, in Savate is common kick, I am all into integral learning but between pros this won´t be so easy or Dalton from Road House would be champion of the UFC with his bouncer knee kick while I repeat that for self defense is great.

walking around knee stomping everyone as much as possible isnt going to make you champion, although Im sure youll end a few guys careers along the way. But theres much more to it to become champion than that. It is common in savate which is something I was unaware of. So that did open my eyes more so to others view points. However in savate, the target is the thigh, not the knee. savate was created for street fighting originally or something along those lines as well.

 

[MaxMMA]

Retarded to even consider banning "oblique" kicks.

Heel hooks are legal. The heelhook is far more dangerous than oblique kicks could ever be, and has destroyed more knees than the oblique kick ever will.

 

[shincheckin]

savate oblique kick to the thigh, not knee, notice how much higher up this kick is aimed compared to the injury one below.

oblique kick to the knee timed correctly. notice how low it landed. aimed directly at the knee, not the thigh.

just a little more force and same thing would have happened in all the examples below

this is not a defense, the kick did not land clean, and glanced off

this is not a defense either, he just backed up quickly when he saw him come in, this is a very general movement that most likely would have been done if he came in with any form of attack. Yeah it was defended against, unintentionally.

the only people I see that are pro knee stomp, are not the people in there risking their knees.

Can anyone provide any information regarding active fighters that are pro knee stomp outside of Jon Jones? I dont mean guys that use it. I mean guys that have had this discussion that are active fighters, and are like yeah, lets keep it legal.

 

[shincheckin]

Retarded to even consider banning "oblique" kicks.

Heel hooks are legal. The heelhook is far more dangerous than oblique kicks could ever be, and has destroyed more knees than the oblique kick ever will.

with the heel hook, you have the option of tapping out before injury. I understand this can be difficult to tap in time as guys will resist the tap, and also during a fight, things will happen quickly, but the option of tapping before breaking is there.

with a strike to the knee, there is no tapping out.

grappling:
You can stretch a rubber band to its max before breaking and stop, or continue to stretch and break it if you want. Lets say it broke at 50 lbs

striking:
take that same rubber band, tie one end to a bridge, tie 50 lbs to the other end, and throw it over the bridge. Theres no stopping the falling weight before the rubber band snaps.

 

[aerius]

Then why does it never happen? I'm going to keep harping on this - because it doesn't happen, I literally can't think of an example of it ever happening.

AKA has broken more of their own fighters' knees and messed up more careers than all the knee stomps in UFC history put together. I'm not even joking.

 

[MaxMMA]

with the heel hook, you have the option of tapping out before injury. I understand this can be difficult to tap in time as guys will resist the tap, and also during a fight, things will happen quickly, but the option of tapping before breaking is there.

with a strike to the knee, there is no tapping out.

grappling:
You can stretch a rubber band to its max before breaking and stop, or continue to stretch and break it if you want. Lets say it broke at 50 lbs

striking:
take that same rubber band, tie one end to a bridge, tie 50 lbs to the other end, and throw it over the bridge. Theres no stopping the falling weight before the rubber band snaps.

Not to be an ass because you are a great poster, but I'm assuming your grappling experience is limited based on this post.

The heelhook is unique in that as a submission, the time you have to tapout before ligaments in your knee begin to shred, is very limited.

By the time you begin to feel pressure in your knee when the heelhook is applied, it's already to late and damage is being done. The technique goes from zero pain to breaking pain as soon as the finish is applied.

There's good reason why this technique is illegal in most lower belt grappling tournaments.

 

[shincheckin]

Disclaimer: I am a physical therapist with a Masters of Science Degree and will be beginning Doctoral work this summer ... So I see ALLOT of wrecked knees.

Oblique kicks are dangerous for the same reason that a low tackle in football is. If the impact lands on the distal end of the femur (slighlty above the joint line) then the fighters ACL is stressed ... If the kick lands on the top of the tibia (just underneath the joint line) then the PCL ligament takes the stress. Not to mention the articular cartilage that is damaged in the patellofemoral joint from the direction impact (kneecap doesn't like getting slammed into the femur) or the meniscus which can also be damaged with hyper-extension injuries.

A regular round kick is likely to bruise the ever loving crap out of your lateral quads and MAYBE stretch your MCL from the valgus stress on the knee (the best ligament in the body to injure as it heals very effectivley in most cases).

This is a technique I'd be happy to never see used in MMA again to be honest.

 

[shincheckin]

Not to be an ass because you are a great poster, but I'm assuming your grappling experience is limited based on this post.

The heelhook is unique in that as a submission, the time you have to tapout before ligaments in your knee begin to shred, is very limited.

By the time you begin to feel pressure in your knee when the heelhook is applied, it's already to late and damage is being done. The technique goes from zero pain to breaking pain as soon as the finish is applied.

There's good reason why this technique is illegal in most lower belt grappling tournaments.

no worries dude, you are correct my grappling exp and knowledge is very limited.

Take what you just said, the time to tap out is very limited right?

Well there is no time in a strike.

You could take everything you just said and apply it to the knee stomp, only difference being there is no time vs very limited time, which is worse?

 

[shincheckin]

AKA has broken more of their own fighters' knees and messed up more careers than all the knee stomps in UFC history put together. I'm not even joking.

whats aka?

 

[MaxMMA]

no worries dude, you are correct my grappling exp and knowledge is very limited.

Take what you just said, the time to tap out is very limited right?

Well there is no time in a strike.

You could take everything you just said and apply it to the knee stomp, only difference being there is no time vs very limited time, which is worse?

Basically you have to tap when someone immobilizes you in any one of the various "heelhook positions" if you wait to tap when they apply the actual finish, then yeah it's too late.

I would personally rather be blasted in the knee with a kick than have a heelhook assassin latch onto one of my legs, but that's just my experience lol

 

[MaxMMA]

whats aka?

I believe he is referring to American Kickboxing Academy, which is notorious for their fighters sustaining knee injuries during camp.

 

[aerius]

whats aka?

American Kickboxing Academy. MMA camp that's infamous for caveman training methods which wreck all of their fighters' knees.