SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 48 Discussion - Sound of My Voice

[Guestx]

@shadow_priest_x I caught it today.

Was Abigail's mother mentioned at any point? All I remember is a house cleaner and her father but I wasn't paying super close attention. Could Maggie be her mother? That would at least give her intimate experience with Abigail's father if he taught her that.

The ending is the real discussion point for me as well.

I don't remember Abigail's mother being mentioned. Your idea of Maggie being Abigail's mother is an interesting one, though I have two questions:

1. When the DOJ agent is giving the rundown on Maggie's history, this is not mentioned.

2. When Abigail meets Maggie at the end, she asks, "Who was she?" I'd wager that if Abigail was old enough the last time she saw her mother to be doing intricate handshakes, then she would've been old enough to remember her mother's face.

 

[Guestx]

I was actually pissed off at Lam's girl, I forget her name, but he gets kicked out and his woman won't leave with him. I would have filled the room with uppercuts. Sorry but that's too much humility all in one dose, get kicked out of the cult and your woman chooses to stay with out you? Sorry, everyone present is now getting a chair to the head.

LOL, yeah, no shit right? That really sucked for Lam.

The answer that she gives is interesting when she and Peter were sitting and talking. She said she didn't do it because Lam questioned her, but because she knew Lam wasn't with them in the future. I guess it's up to you to decide if you believe that answer.

All in all, low budget, takes place in a basement, no big name actors, they pulled off something worth watching for sure. I enjoy a mystery so 8/10.

Whenever the subject of captivating, high-concept low-budget films comes up, I always go to two movies:

Primer
Sound of My Voice

They are my top examples. It's a strange coincidence that they both deal with time travel.

 

[MusterX]

Niqqa, you're the one who keeps saying we have to talk about the handshake! I'm trying to talk to you about the handshake!



Can you tell me why precisely you thought she seemed fraudulent? Maybe this comes down to an internal feeling some people might have toward cults going into the movie.

I mean, I'm no cultist or anything, but all the way through I think I always leaned slightly in the direction of her being the real deal. It was just a feeling I had.

On that note, let me quote a passage from an article I found that's relevant:

As Sound of My Voice’s co-writers, they intentionally crafted a story that’s like a jigsaw puzzle of modern art — full of odd-shaped pieces and open to interpretation.

“The film is designed like a calculus proof, very carefully,” director Batmanglij said in an interview with Wired. “That X factor, that N — what the value of that N is, you just have to trust your instinct at the end of the experience.”

What he means is that the film gives you the equation and some numbers, but a few key scenes in Sound of My Voice remain open to analysis. Any given audience member can solve the problem differently based on what they determine the values of those Xs to be.



If in fact she is a time traveler, then I agree with the idea that it wasn't really her choice.

It's also possible that she might not be the only one. Again, the Bearded Man--I really need to look up his character's name--went looking for her because, apparently, of something that he had heard. He seemed to know what she was, i.e. a time traveler. Is there a history of people with these anchor tattoos popping up from time to time? Was she just another in a line of travelers who had already come back?

Yea because without that handshake its just a movie about a cult leader who goes to jail for being a con artist and criminal. That handshake though changes everything in an instant. I think guys like @europe1 are just too cynical about being duped by a silly cult and that is why the last scene is genius, because it plays a cult trick on the audience and says see, you didn't believe, well watch this. We can still get an earthly explanation for it if we stretch and assume the watched Abigail and stole her handshake but for what reason? Why would they do that? Seems like a very odd way to try to start a cult.

And yes there were some oddities concerning her main cohort, the guy that discovered her in the streets. He was looking for her specifically. Went around asking people about her. Are we to assume he is actually the cult leader mastermind, and not Maggie? Was he also from another time? The movie is fairly maddening to someone like me whereas to someone like @europe1 , he probably looks at it and says that bitch is crazy, that cult is bullshit.

 

[FierceRedBelt]

I don't remember Abigail's mother being mentioned. Your idea of Maggie being Abigail's mother is an interesting one, though I have two questions:

1. When the DOJ agent is giving the rundown on Maggie's history, this is not mentioned.

2. When Abigail meets Maggie at the end, she asks, "Who was she?" I'd wager that if Abigail was old enough the last time she saw her mother to be doing intricate handshakes, then she would've been old enough to remember her mother's face.

1.) No answer. But if she was never married to Abigail's father, might it fly under the radar?
2.) I'm betting she fled before Abigail was old enough to remember if that's the case. The father had to be the designer or have influenced the hand shake.

But now if we're paying serious attention to Abigail we need to question her character and her actions. Her father medicates her for some reason --- she wrote 'terrorist' on another girl's bag --- possibly abused at home --- pretends/falls asleep several times a day.

 

[MusterX]

@shadow_priest_x I caught it today.

Was Abigail's mother mentioned at any point? All I remember is a house cleaner and her father but I wasn't paying super close attention. Could Maggie be her mother? That would at least give her intimate experience with Abigail's father if he taught her that.

The ending is the real discussion point for me as well.

The big reveal was unexpected. I was thinking why does she need to meet this little girl who she claims is her mother? I fully expect that she is just a con artist and has bad intentions and they get into the room and the handshake breaks out.

What...the....fuck.....

All we have to do is kidnap Brit Marling and make her talk.

 

[the muntjac]

I always take movies at face value so I really didn't see it coming. Twists always get me because I believe the filmmaker when they tell me something.



First off, Brit as an actress has a ton of charisma, at least in my opinion.

Second, Maggie is the architect of the apple scene, which I certainly can't say I found boring or unmemorable.



Do we even know she was really DOJ?

While I conclude that she probably is, I think it's open question. She may have been an impostor.



I took two things from it:

1. It gives us a glimpse into the kind of future that Maggie is telling everyone they need to prepare for.

2. It shows us that Lorna is starting to be swayed by the cult and get sucked in. This of course ended up being something of a fake out, but it worked on me because, like I said, I always take narratives at face value.



These are fair criticisms, though I personally like the atmosphere of mystery these elements create.



I think it's just another clue, which is largely what this film is: A series of clues that are sprinkled about and that surround a question: If she from the future or isn't she?



Yes, exactly.



Well that's just it, by the end of this movie you don't really know the secret. It reminds me of a (much) less complex version of Primer, in that with repeated viewings you understand more about the story.

Consider this excerpt from the film's Wikipedia entry:

In his round-up of 2012's cinematic standouts, Variety film critic Peter Debruge admitted to having watched Sound of My Voice four times and called it an "ingenious low-budget puzzler."

There's a reason he watched the film over and over, trying to piece it together.



As mentioned in the trivia, this was originally meant to be a trilogy, so that might also factor into it.



Most student films don't even approach this level of quality.



If you feel like you could go out and make a movie of this quality tomorrow, then I can't for the life of me understand why you're not doing it.

Equipment? It was shot on the Canon 7D. You can get a used 7D for under $500.

My camera is a $100 piece of crap. I could afford something a little nicer, but I've kinda fallen out of love of actually shooting and directing stuff awhile back. I do some YouTube quality stuff here and there, but it's only when I find time and nothing that costs me money to do. My job takes up most of my time, and when I have down time, working on a video doesn't sound super appealing because it actually takes time and effort. But sometimes I get motivated.

As for what I meant about it being college level is that it's very point and shoot. There was never a time when a shot stood out to me.

As for the ambiguity of the film, if it works for you, then that's great. I'm certainly not stewing over the idea of somebody enjoying a movie.

I believe it was Muster who brought up the thought that the handshake at the end is the movie challenging our expectations and wanting to question ourselves if we believe she's really from the future despite the improbability. Here's my problem - the film was left too vague for me to care.

Scenes where a killer corners his victim, we're not shown the killer, we see a shadow draping over the victim as the killer approaches, but then there's a cut to outside with the victim heard screaming. Then it's left up to "my imagination". No. I want to see what happens. I want to see the filmmakers' imagination since I've decided to watch a work of their imagination. I know how my imagination works, but I've decided to commit time, money, or both to see somebody else's imagination for a little while. I want to see the special effects person's craft. The same goes for SoMV. It would have been nice to see more of the thought process behind why some scenes were the way they were, rather than leaving it so open ended in the manner that it is. I want more of their imagination inserted, and less of me having to sleuth and put the pieces together. I'm totally not against movies with open endings (The Wrestler, The Thing, Total Recall, The Grey, Blade Runner, just some that come to mind right now), but if I'm to be left with something to reflect upon, I prefer it being about why the protagonists made the choices they did based on circumstances provided. With SoMV, when those circumstances are comprised of scenes that are seeming to establish something, but never given any kind of resolution, then I'm not left with much context. Therefor, I'm not going to give it much thought.

This movie didn't work for me. If it did for others, than that's just dandy. I know I like movies that a lot of people turn their nose up to, such as Scorsese's Bringing Out the Dead, but it is what it is.

 

[FierceRedBelt]

I know I like movies that a lot of people turn their nose up to, such as Scorsese's Bringing Out the Dead, but it is what it is.

I tried to get a few of my classmates to watch that after I caught it. It's one of my favorite Nick Cage movies.

 

[FierceRedBelt]

The big reveal was unexpected. I was thinking why does she need to meet this little girl who she claims is her mother? I fully expect that she is just a con artist and has bad intentions and they get into the room and the handshake breaks out.

What...the....fuck.....

All we have to do is kidnap Brit Marling and make her talk.

Sounds like a plan!

I was expecting a kid napping to be honest.

My big problem with films like this is it's easy to craft a story with completely mixed signals that are just vague enough to go either way. Then you're left with endless amounts of debate for naught.

Assuming she was a time traveler and the 'bearded man' knew what to look for. Then she might not of been the first and the 'bearded man' could of been involved with the previous travelers. If the previous travelers follow the same pattern maybe that's how the officer knew what was happening. That officer, why did she search her room like that? Did anyone look for tattoos on her?

 

[MusterX]

Sounds like a plan!

I was expecting a kid napping to be honest.

My big problem with films like this is it's easy to craft a story with completely mixed signals that are just vague enough to go either way. Then you're left with endless amounts of debate for naught.

Assuming she was a time traveler and the 'bearded man' knew what to look for. Then she might not of been the first and the 'bearded man' could of been involved with the previous travelers. If the previous travelers follow the same pattern maybe that's how the officer knew what was happening. That officer, why did she search her room like that? Did anyone look for tattoos on her?

Yea the detective was weird. She appeared to be in a hotel room, turned on all the water to make noise and she searches the room for bugs, even though she isn't talking to anyone, and opens an envelope. I'm like, what agency did you say you were with? She did act a bit like a time cop.

 

[Guestx]

I think guys like @europe1 are just too cynical about being duped by a silly cult and that is why the last scene is genius, because it plays a cult trick on the audience and says see, you didn't believe, well watch this.

You know, it's interesting, I've seen a few different things with cult leaders, but never something where they throw a twist in that makes the cult leader out to actually be legitimate. That like you say, ha ha, the joke is on the people who doubted. It's almost like there's a rule that says you can't do that.

We can still get an earthly explanation for it if we stretch and assume the watched Abigail and stole her handshake but for what reason? Why would they do that? Seems like a very odd way to try to start a cult.

Yeah, that's another reason why the "surveillance hypothesis" doesn't seem strong to me. In any criminal case, cops always look for a motive. What's the motive to steal Abigail's handshake and then meet up with her? I can't come up with anything.

The movie is fairly maddening to someone like me whereas to someone like @europe1 , he probably looks at it and says that bitch is crazy, that cult is bullshit.

I think with a movie like this a key element is whether or not it captures your imagination. Without that, you won't appreciate it.

But I love movies like this. They're the kinds of movies I'll watch four . . . five . . . six times trying to piece together.

Plus, as I've said, I just love what they've done with such limited resources. That's a huge part of the film for me, telling an interesting story with so little.

 

[Guestx]

1.) No answer. But if she was never married to Abigail's father, might it fly under the radar?

If they were never married and Maggie was NOT Abigail's mother, then maybe. But if the DOJ is investigating this strenuously, then I would have to think they would have made it their business to know who Abigail's mother was. Or to put it another way, they would know if Maggie had any children.

2.) I'm betting she fled before Abigail was old enough to remember if that's the case. The father had to be the designer or have influenced the hand shake.

Indeed. It seems like a child's handshake--something a child would have come up with and then taught to others. But your idea is obviously not impossible.

But now if we're paying serious attention to Abigail we need to question her character and her actions. Her father medicates her for some reason --- she wrote 'terrorist' on another girl's bag --- possibly abused at home --- pretends/falls asleep several times a day.

Well like I said to Muster, I got the sense that she was autistic or something along those lines. The scene with the building blocks really sold me on that, as well as the fact that she just doesn't seem to connect well with others.

As for the "terrorist" part . . . I don't know . . . I've been puzzling over that. Terrorist on a backpack . . . building a tall tower with blocks . . . 9/11? . . . that's my stream of consciousness.

I'm sure it means SOMETHING. In the article I quoted to Muster earlier, it's obvious that every element is carefully placed. So it has to mean something. But what?

I'm going to watch the movie again!

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

This movie started out very fascinating....and I was actually very intrigued...

the ending torpedoed the film for me.

I was reading some IMDB reviews and this one guy said it best,

"...I understand sometimes filmmakers will want the audience to do some of the heavy lifting but this ending puts the entire onus on the audience. it was a lazy ending."

I felt the same way as well..

It was very inconclusive.

I give it a 6/10.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

Didn't this filmmaker also do a movie called "the east" or something like that?

it has the girl from Juno in it...about environmental terrorism and with the same blonde actress from this film.

That movie too started out very well, but quickly declined into garbage.

 

[Guestx]

This movie started out very fascinating....and I was actually very intrigued...

the ending torpedoed the film for me.

I was reading some IMDB reviews and this one guy said it best,

"...I understand sometimes filmmakers will want the audience to do some of the heavy lifting but this ending puts the entire onus on the audience. it was a lazy ending."

I felt the same way as well..

It was very inconclusive.

I give it a 6/10.

Hmm, it's interesting that you say the ending torpedoed the film and then you have guys like @MusterX saying the ending is what MAKES the film.

Different strokes, I suppose. But I love the ending. It was a big, "Holy shit!" moment for me the first time I saw it.

Didn't this filmmaker also do a movie called "the east" or something like that?

it has the girl from Juno in it...about environmental terrorism and with the same blonde actress from this film.

That movie too started out very well, but quickly declined into garbage.

Yes, it was the same team: Zal Batmanglij and Brit Marling.

I thought The East was okay. Not great, not terrible, but decent. It could've been better.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

edit

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

Hmm, it's interesting that you say the ending torpedoed the film and then you have guys like @MusterX saying the ending is what MAKES the film.

Different strokes, I suppose. But I love the ending. It was a big, "Holy shit!" moment for me the first time I saw it.



Yes, it was the same team: Zal Batmanglij and Brit Marling.

I thought The East was okay. Not great, not terrible, but decent. It could've been better.

No, I love the hand shake part at the very end with the little girl, I was like...is this for real? I mean, I was like, " holy shit, this has elements of brilliance like Hitchcock's Vertigo!!"

and then it was ....."THE END."

I was like WTF!?!?!?!?

This ending was as bad as the ending for Source Code.

Source Code (maybe for next movie club thread)

absolutely brilliant first 98% of the film.


the last 2 percent killed the movie

 

[Guestx]

No, I love the hand shake part at the very end with the little girl, I was like...is this for real? I mean, I was like, " holy shit, this has elements of brilliance like Hitchcock's Vertigo!!"

and then it was ....."THE END."

I was like WTF!?!?!?!?

This ending was as bad as the ending for Source Code.

Source Code (maybe for next movie club thread)

absolutely brilliant first 98% of the film.


the last 2 percent killed the movie

It sounds like you don't care for open-ended movies where it's left up to you to determine what the film means or what it's trying to say. That is, where it's a responsibility of the viewer to interpret the film and draw their own conclusions.

 

[the muntjac]

Plus, as I've said, I just love what they've done with such limited resources. That's a huge part of the film for me, telling an interesting story with so little.

In that case, if you haven't seen it, may I suggest the movie Lo.

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt1047490/

It's also made on a very small budget that was still able to be captivating enough. I don't love the movie by any means, but I was happily surprised by it. You might like it.

 

[chickenluver]

* Brit Marling and Zal Batmanglij both refuse to discuss the true "meaning" of the film; i.e. Maggie's true identity, the significance of Abigail to the cult or the Justice Deparment's true interest in Maggie. Both have said there are subtle clues in the film that answer some of these lingering questions, but that even they don't know if Maggie is really a time traveler.

Damnit. I'd be curious to see the sequels made, or at least hear about what they had in mind for the continuing narrative.

This movie was a trip. When the little girl knew the handshake, that was a true wtf moment. The highlight of the film for me.

I found this in the sci-fi section of the local video store, while on wiki the film is described as a psychological thriller, and I was wondering if it being in that section was a giveaway that she really is from the future. At the start of the film I was leaning towards some type of reveal like that, with the man being so sure she was a con and him believing she was going to make the cult members all kill themselves. Then as the movie went on I became positive she really was a con, especially after that scene of her singing the cranberries song claiming it was future music. I haven't read the thread yet, I'm looking forward to reading everyone's thoughts, but as far as I'm concerned the little girl knowing the handshake confirms that she was truly from the future.

The cult scenes were very effective. Her speeches were very cryptic and foreboding, as I'd expect those of a cult leader to be. Brit Marling looks very similar to a friend of mine, and her voice is also similar. That's just a coincidence, but it made watching her on screen rather odd because I felt as if I know her.

I guess I'm not really sure how I feel about the film or how to evaluate it. Something that frustrates me is that if she was from the future, what exactly was she preparing her followers for? What was the point of everything she did?

Anyway, interesting movie that piqued my interest enough to check out the rest of Batman and Marling's collaborations.

 

[chickenluver]

* I got a hearty laugh at the guy asking if we still had CD's and MP3 players in the future.

I had a good laugh when the Justice Department lady asked Lorna what Maggie said she wanted to kid for, Lorna says Maggie claims the kid is her mother, and the Justice Department lady laughs out loud.