SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: WEEK 119: The Pope Of Greenwich Village

[europe1]

NOTE to NON-MEMBERS: Interested in joining the SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB? Shoot me a PM for more info!

Here's a quick list of all movies watched by the SMC. Or if you prefer, here's a more detailed examination.

Our Director

(that's the mustach that directed Cool Hand Luke, people)

Stuart Rosenberg was born on August 11, 1927 in Brooklyn, New York City, New York, USA. He was a director and producer, known for Cool Hands Luke (1967), Question 7 (1961) and The Defenders (1961). He was married to Margot Pohoryles. He died on March 15, 2007 in Beverly Hills, Los Angeles, California, USA.​

Our Stars
Eric Roberts

Mickey Rourke

​

Film Overview

Premise: Two cousins unknowingly rob the mob and face the dangerous consequences.

Budget: $8 million
Box Office: $6.8 million

Trivia
(courtesy of IMDB)
​

* Michael Cimino was asked to direct this film but didn't think it was a good film for him. As a favor to the producers, who were on a deadline, he went to New York and did all the preproduction. When they were set to begin shooting, the producers again tried to get Cimino to direct but he told them he thought, considering the budget, they needed someone who could work faster than he was used to working and so they hired Rosenberg.

* According to author' Christopher Heard', the movie was originally planned to feature the first on-screen pairing of Robert De Niro and Al Pacino, with the duo set to play Charlie and Paulie respectively. In the end, Charlie and Paulie were cast with Mickey Rourke and Eric Roberts respectively.

* The movie did actually utilize the "Greenwich Village" of the film's The Pope Of Greenwich Village (1984) title, situated in Lower Manhattan, New York City, as a filming location.

* A number of film directors have been attached or associated with the production of this picture. These have included Ulu Grosbard, Michael Cimino, Ron Maxwell, and finally, Stuart Rosenberg was the film's director.

Members: @europe1 @MusterX @Scott Parker 27 @the muntjac @Cubo de Sangre @sickc0d3r @FrontNakedChoke @AndersonsFoot @Tufts @Coolthulu @Yotsuya @jei @LHWBelt @Deus Ex Machina @ArtemV @Bullitt68

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

To me this one's at best so-so. Hoped I'd like it more now than back in the day but the film just doesn't resonate with me at all. The only likable character is Barney. Not sure when Roberts is supposed to be dramatic and when I'm supposed to laugh. The ending was almost slapstick and didn't really resolve much. We're to just assume Burt bites the big one and nobody else comes collecting? I wouldn't call it boring, but I can't think of any reason I'd ever recommend it to someone.

 

[Bullitt68]

* According to author' Christopher Heard', the movie was originally planned to feature the first on-screen pairing of Robert De Niro and Al Pacino, with the duo set to play Charlie and Paulie respectively. In the end, Charlie and Paulie were cast with Mickey Rourke and Eric Roberts respectively.

Ten years earlier, that would've been cool, but by 1984, no fucking way. And besides, De Niro already did this movie ten years earlier. It was called Mean Streets. I'll come back to this when I have time to contribute properly to this thread, but The Pope of Greenwich Village is basically Mean Streets with Mickey Rourke playing the Harvey Keitel character and Eric Roberts playing the De Niro character.

 

[Yotsuya]

Damn, I thought this would be on Amazon Prime, but it is not. YouTube version seems unwatchable.

 

[europe1]

I have to steal to Simpsons reference before that scoundrel muntjac gets to it first

Yeah I really liked this movie!

Some scatterbrained, one-note thoughts before going into the jist of it.

* Good to get with the ethnics after Over the Edge. I even stated in that discussion that it's not a proper neighborhood until someone threatens to pounce their cousins on you. Here it was brothers, but hey, close enough!

* Funniest part was Paulie talking about horse cock while preparing a baguet.

* Damit! Seeing Micky Rourke walking around all these scenic New York environments is giving me Year of the Dragon flashbacks!

* Ah yes, aerobics. Instant 80's eroticism in a movie. I miss when they would just randomly insert that. Like in Wargames, when Broody calls his girlfriend, and she's all sweaty and panting from a stretching-routine

* Mope. Gompa. Mostly I'm just sad that we got no Mooks.

* So here we have Rourke sitting alone against the wall of a ruined apartment in New York after being abandoned by his loved one. Didn't we see this exact same moment in Light Sleeper, which was also a Coolthulu nomination? Does he have some sort of strange fascination going on?

* Also, Rocky's brother in another movie, that's a two-in-a-row with Convoy!

* I really liked the use of music in this movie, excellent use of both ambient sound and songs. Really enchants the moments. Like how the train noisily goes by as a violent thought runs through Paulie's mind. Got a laugh when they started playing Irish tunes as the cops were introduced, though.

* Second best scene of the movie. Geraldine Page acted her heart out there.

Maybe I don't want to change...

That was the best scene in the movie for me, the linchpin that tied it together. It brought to the surface the protagonists underlying characteristics and motivations. Charlie wants to remain tribal, even if it damns him. It's habitus, that feeling of belonging -- being stuck even -- to some group in society, and for Charlie it's very intrinsic.

Charlie wants it both ways. He wants Paulie and he wants Diane. But they're from two different worlds, not compatible. There are too many clashes for things to fit. WASP Diane probably represents his wish to be a big shot, to own a restaurant.

But when he has to choose, he chooses Paulie and his tribe. I think this is underscored through the narrative. Charlie seems more affectionate towards Paulie than he does Diane (even though he has great affection for her too). When Diane becomes livid, sheds tears before his face, and eventually slaps him in rage, he responds by smirking sardonically. Paulie he might get angry at, but when Paulie sheds tears in front of him (when his thumb got cut off), Charlie sheds tears back. There is an intimacy between them that's based on common-ground that doesn't exist with Diane. Charlie takes out his bitterness on Diane piecemeal, offhandedly throwing out insults like "you can't cook" at her. But Paulie? Paulie he has lived with his entire life, the kids wrongness is second nature to him, just having him around feels natural. No matter how insulting Paulie gets or how much he fucks up, they're on common-ground, tied-together. No sardonic smiles for him.

Speaking about Paulie, man what an ugly animal. He's obsessed about status like some psychopath, completely materialistic save for whatever (bendable) tribal loyalties has been rubbed into him. The best summary about his character is that he's the kind of guys that swallow all the pills in the box at once. Eric Roberts went full "Last Exit to Brooklyn" on that performance.


Frankly, I thought the worst part was the ending. Paulie has just fucked up... again. Bed Bug Eddie is going to shit concrete for hours -- but revenge is undoubtedly coming. But Charlie acts completely cool about it. He has no outbursts or outrages, despite probably having been handed a death-sentence that not even his tape can save him from. Where's the climax here? It feels like we're being driven towards an inevitable endpoint, a cataclysm of all their decisions. What about the consequences? But no, just smile about it. Is it all just some galactic joke? Does it all really just fix itself, like Charlie mumbled? I wanted grimness and consequences, damit!!!


EDIT: I thought the stuff Paulie poured in Big Bugs coffee was the same stuff he gave the cop, but it isn't (I just naturally assumed this was foreshadowing). It's lye. Checking wikipedia tells me that lye can be fatal (but the wording gives me the impression it's merely harmful in most occasions). But even if Bugs dies of that stuff, the tone of the ending is still off. Why are they so cool about it? And Bugs is going to be revenged so they're still not out of the shit.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Frankly, I thought the worst part was the ending.

It makes no sense to me that Burt pulls the info about Mickey out of Eric and then apparently just sits on it while those two have a good time out at the track and then the bar.

 

[MusterX]

I had a dinner date with the wife and some friends tonight but I did watch the movie. I'll post my thoughts on it tomorrow. AHHHH THEY TOOK MY THUMB! scene is the best thing I've ever seen.

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

Hey guys!
Sorry I'm late.
Took a few notes because I'm forgetful:

Opening song is rad. Love it.

I really thought Charlie was going to punch Paulie when he said 'what do you need a suit for, you don't got no job' for a second time.

I liked when Kick boxer chick cracked Charlie w/ gloves on leading to sexy time


Another good song. Down w/ this soundtrack.

Front kick for getting offered a job as a waiter! Reminded me of Werdum kicking Edmund lol.

Paulie has some funny facial expressions at times, but it's moving a little slow.

Starting to pick up a bit. Cool interlude and background music.

The part when they got rolled on while opening the safe, and the cop immediately dies. I liked that.

Tense argument between the two cousins. A little hard to stay into. Could just be my short attention span or lack of sleep. Music is the best part but there's not enough of it.

80's Dance Class woke me TF up. Damn! I should go to some dance classes


Maybe I don't want to change. 3 Open hand strikes this time from sexy kickboxing dancer lady, but no follow up sex this time.


Despite that, I agree with @europe1
that's the best scene in the movie (besides the dance class).

Paulie kinda reminds me of:

I did like Paulie's leather jackets though.
Might get one this winter.


Fat gangster had a cool way of eating cantaloupe with a knife. Definitely stealing that.

Paulie sure has to pee a lot. Being on a cleanse, I can relate.
Seems to be just when he's nervous perhaps? Always at a bad time at least.

I laughed at Barney's Irish music escape through the floor.

Charlie now going full Wanderlei Silva on his apartment.

Paulie talking about beating women. Real tough guy.



"How did you let this happen to you?"
"Well, I let me whole life happen to me."
I thought that was a great line from Barney.
@Cubo de Sangre definitely the only likable character.

Wow Paulie the snitch.
Women beaters and Snitches get their thumbs removed
(and people who steal from the mob)

Confusing ending
Overall I thought it was just okay.
They just walk off into more dumb decisions I suppose?

 

[MC Paul Barman]

Burt Young was very convincing as a tough guy. Legitimately intimidating when he was the sit down with Eric Roberts.

 

[Coolthulu]

Aces man, fucking aces.....

 

[Coolthulu]

I have to steal to Simpsons reference before that scoundrel muntjac gets to it first

Yeah I really liked this movie!

Some scatterbrained, one-note thoughts before going into the jist of it.

* Good to get with the ethnics after Over the Edge. I even stated in that discussion that it's not a proper neighborhood until someone threatens to pounce their cousins on you. Here it was brothers, but hey, close enough!

* Funniest part was Paulie talking about horse cock while preparing a baguet.

* Damit! Seeing Micky Rourke walking around all these scenic New York environments is giving me Year of the Dragon flashbacks!

* Ah yes, aerobics. Instant 80's eroticism in a movie. I miss when they would just randomly insert that. Like in Wargames, when Broody calls his girlfriend, and she's all sweaty and panting from a stretching-routine

* Mope. Gompa. Mostly I'm just sad that we got no Mooks.

* So here we have Rourke sitting alone against the wall of a ruined apartment in New York after being abandoned by his loved one. Didn't we see this exact same moment in Light Sleeper, which was also a Coolthulu nomination? Does he have some sort of strange fascination going on?

* Also, Rocky's brother in another movie, that's a two-in-a-row with Convoy!

* I really liked the use of music in this movie, excellent use of both ambient sound and songs. Really enchants the moments. Like how the train nosily goes by as a violent though runs through Paulie's mind. Got a laugh when they started playing Irish tunes as the cops were introduced, though.

* Second best scene of the movie. Geraldine Page acted her heart out there.

Maybe I don't want to change...

That was the best scene in the movie for me, the linchpin that tied it together. It brought to the surface the protagonists underlying characteristics and motivations. Charlie wants to remain tribal, even if it damns him. It's habitus, that feeling of belonging -- being stuck even -- to some group in society, and for Charlie it's very intrinsic.

Charlie wants it both ways. He wants Paulie and he wants Diane. But they're from two different worlds, not compatible. There are too many clashes for things to fit. WASP Diane probably represents his wish to be a big shot, to own a restaurant.

But when he has to choose, he chooses Paulie and his tribe. I think this is underscored through the narrative. Charlie seems more affectionate towards Paulie than he does Diane (even though he has great affection for her too). When Diane becomes livid, sheds tears before his face, and eventually slaps him in rage, he responds by smirking sardonically. Paulie he might get angry at, but when Paulie sheds tears in front of him (when his thumb got cut off), Charlie sheds tears back. There is an intimacy between them that's based on common-ground that doesn't exist with Diane. Charlie takes out his bitterness on Diane piecemeal, offhandedly throwing out insults like "you can't cook" at her. But Paulie? Paulie he has lived with his entire life, the kids wrongness is second nature to him, just having him around feels natural. No matter how insulting Paulie gets or how much he fucks up, they're on common-ground, tied-together. No sardonic smiles for him.

Speaking about Paulie, man what an ugly animal. He's obsessed about status like some psychopath, completely materialistic save for whatever (bendable) tribal loyalties has been rubbed into him. The best summary about his character is that he's the kind of guys that swallow all the pills in the box at once. Eric Roberts went full "Last Exit to Brooklyn" on that performance.


Frankly, I thought the worst part was the ending. Paulie has just fucked up... again. Bed Bug Eddie is going to shit concrete for hours -- but revenge is undoubtedly coming. But Charlie acts completely cool about it. He has no outbursts or outrages, despite probably having been handed a death-sentence that not even his tape can save him from. Where's the climax here? It feels like we're being driven towards an inevitable endpoint, a cataclysm of all their decisions. What about the consequences? But no, just smile about it. Is it all just some galactic joke? Does it all really just fix itself, like Charlie mumbled? I wanted grimness and consequences, damit!!!


EDIT: I thought the stuff Paulie poured in Big Bugs coffee was the same stuff he gave the cop, but it isn't (I just naturally assumed this was foreshadowing). It's lye. Checking wikipedia tells me that lye can be fatal (but the wording gives me the impression it's merely harmful in most occasions). But even if Bugs dies of that stuff, the tone of the ending is still off. Why are they so cool about it? And Bugs is going to be revenged so they're still not out of the shit.

Daryl Hannah in the 80's =

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Aces man, fucking aces.....

You're laughing at their absurd attire?

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

Daryl Hannah in the 80's =

Seriously...

This must have been the inspiration for the 'call on me' video

 

[BisexualMMA]

Mickey Rourke was a great actor that just never picked a great movie to be in during the entire 1980s.

 

[Yotsuya]

Mickey Rourke was a great actor that just never picked a great movie to be in during the entire 1980s.

Year of the Dragon was underwhelming on VHS, but I really liked when I caught it on big screen few years ago.

Does any streaming service in Europe have Pope btw?

 

[BisexualMMA]

Seriously...

This must have been the inspiration for the 'call on me' video

 

[europe1]

The only likable character is Barney

I'd say this is one of those films where the characters are more interesting than likable. Which, IMO, Carlie and Pauline really are.

The only likable character is Barney

@Cubo de Sangre definitely the only likable character.

Well of course you plebians like Barney! That Grand-Duke Vladimir Harkonnen, peasants! His disease is beautiful to you!

AHHHH THEY TOOK MY THUMB! scene is the best thing I've ever seen.

Yeah, it was freaking radical

I really thought Charlie was going to punch Paulie when he said 'what do you need a suit for, you don't got no job' for a second time.

Foreshadowing for just how much he loves the guy.

The part when they got rolled on while opening the safe, and the cop immediately dies. I liked that.

Came out of nowhere. Turns around and falls down an elevator shaft. Almost darkly funny how out of left-field it is.

Seems to be just when he's nervous perhaps? Always at a bad time at least.

Charlie says that he has had a bum bladder ever since he was a kid.

Charlie now going full Wanderlei Silva on his apartment.

That was pretty good, but Micky still has a long way to go if he wants to compete with the GOAT apartment-destroyers.

This must have been the inspiration for the 'call on me' video

According to Wiki, that was Perfect (1985) with Travolta and Jamie Lee Curtis.

GOAT aerobics film is Killer Workout (1987) though. Slasher movie set in an aerobics studio. And yes... one-third of it is just montages.

Mickey Rourke was a great actor that just never picked a great movie to be in during the entire 1980s.

Is this your way of telling us you're not an Angel Heart fan?

Year of the Dragon was underwhelming on VHS, but I really liked when I caught it on big screen few years ago.

Yeah, I really dug Year of the Dragon too. Chimino showing those dynamic cinematic skills he had.

Does any streaming service in Europe have Pope btw?

Never found one myself

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

LOL true. Forgot about this.

 

[MusterX]

Mickey Rourke was a great actor that just never picked a great movie to be in during the entire 1980s.

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

Well of course you plebians like Barney

I liked Charlie too but his faults reminded me of myself, so probably some projecting there...