SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: WEEK 118: Over the Edge and Convoy

[the muntjac]

Why does it need to? Maybe there aren't any. Sometimes people just observe shit.

It just seems like it has a whole lot to say without actually having much to say.

Would be surprised if that ever happened anywhere in America. Never once occured to me to hold that to the standard of believability. That's what makes it fun. Because as a frustrated kid that'd be an awesome thing to do. This ain't a documentary.

Maybe if the film carried a more humorous tone, I'd be quicker to say, "Yeah, this is silly and fun. Whatever," but being that it had a more serious mood and situations (a kid being killed and all) and seeming to invoke some sort of earnest feeling out of me, then I guess my critique is in kind.

In junior high I never ran credit checks on my friend's parents. If you say that's how you chose up friends I'll take your word for it. At my school at least there was a range of poor to upper-middle class. Next you'll be telling me us white kids didn't hang out with the Mexican kids either (even though I did). By your thinking though you should find it least believable that Carl would be hanging out at the rec center. Rich kids would have better shit to do like play a sport or learn an instrument.

Hey now, let me set the record straight here. I was a poor kid, and even though I experienced punching down from the richer kids, there was also a lot of misguided animosity from the poorer kids towards the richer kids. It swung both ways. The terms "scrub" and "preppy" were thrown joylessly at each other. I played sports, so I did have friends from both sides of the equation. I was always friendly with everyone, even to the chagrin of friends who didn't like who I associated with. I'd be insulted as being a jock, preppy kid one day, then insulted by a football player for being a soccer f** another day, and then called poor for the way I dressed the next day. I took shit from all sides. My school had a very clique mentality.

I didn't see what the population was. Looking at the size of the school it's fair to say more than a couple dozen kids are in the town. And most of 'em weren't really causing harm. Most of that was just vandalism, and kids are the exact demographic you'd expect to vandalize.

I think it's fair to say this went beyond vandalism. When I think of vandalism, I think breaking windows, graffiti, and overturning a sign or something, but this was exploding cars and gunfire. Also, every kid there was an accomplice to false imprisonment. They knew what was up.

And yeah, it's reasonable to think that of the school's student population, majority of them weren't there bringing about the inferno, but the film made it feel like the town's child-deviancy problem was rippled all through town. Being that it was so bad, they couldn't attract outside investors to develop and expand. I'm just saying I felt the scope of it was a little too large.

As for the ending, sorry you didn't like it. All I can say is I've no reason to believe mob mentality doesn't exist in kids. I'm pretty sure it does.

Of course mob mentality exists among kids. Given the situations of this story, I just don't think they'd form literal mobs like we saw.

And as a reminder, the only gun was Spano with the shotgun and he was clearly the most troubled kid. I got the impression he lived out there unsupervised where he was riding his motorcycle around.

I thought there were other kids who pulled guns out of the cop car. Were there not?

Btw, I know I poked fun at this film for the way cars exploded, but the original Walking Tall might hold the title for most ridiculous car explosion meant to be in a serious manner.

It just blows up in mid-air. I die every time I see it.<45>

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I thought there were other kids who pulled guns out of the cop car. Were there not?

Maybe. But the only person I recall firing any shots was Spano's character. Most of the kids didn't really do shit other than be around when others were doing shit. Well, maybe some cheering on.

I guess why the movie is fun to me is because it represents reality in the trials and tribulations of growing up and delinquency, but then veers off into a bit of a fantasy when it comes to how the kids choose to react. Maybe the end ain't so fun when reality creeps back in after shit gets out of control, someone dies, and kids are sent to spend a little time with the state. But to me what wins out is his friends on the bridge letting him know he's not alone. That's a happy ending in my book and a positive message to boot. This movie is about the importance of friendship in a way. When you're a kid this nothing more important than your buddies.

The criticism was brought up earlier of this film offering no solutions. The film being from the kids' perspective, it's not necessarily fair to expect that since adults are supposed to be fixing the problems and leading the way. The kids can't change shit and have nothing but rules coming at them from all angles. So their solution reaction was to lock 'em all in the same Hell the kids were forced into each day (i.e. the school), break a bunch of shit, do a little taunting, then scatter when they realized the jig is up.

 

[the muntjac]

Over the Edge seemed like a lot of normal shit kids used to do. Not all of it obviously but things have really changed over the years. My kids can't even imagine what kind of shit I did growing up. We used to fill plastic bags with creamed corn and throw them over a wall into traffic and listen for which ones hit and which ones didn't and occasionally the screeching of locked tires. Getting stoned with your friends at age 14 or 15, not unusual. The first time I met a Cuban named Jose he was with my friend Randy and within 10 minutes we were behind a 7-11 taking the license plate off the car and then running out carrying cases of beer.

In fact, I did so much shit growing up if I were to tell you some of it you would think I was trolling. We used to crack open coke machines and steal all the quarters and this was back when the local newspaper still had machines and you could throw those in the trunk and break them open somewhere else. Later on I had a friend that worked at a Red Coleman's liquor store and he would let us in the back at night and we would take bottles of liquor, cartons of cigarettes, whatever we could carry. Once the store did inventory and was $15,000 short we couldn't rob that place anymore.

Anyway, did a lot of shit and it just seemed normal to us. The first time I was taken into custody by the police was when I was 13 and it was for carrying a small knife the same way Matt Dillon was in Over the Edge. I once got arrested at the Dept. of Motor Vehicles trying to get my drivers license renewed but I had a warrant out for my arrest and the bitch waited until it was time to pay, took my $20 and said she was going to get change and she came back with a State Trooper who arrested me. Bitch kept my $20.

I think I found Muster's mugshot.

Spoiler

When the boys are in school and one of them says he took speed but he thinks it was actually acid, they were looking at slides of an artist named Hieronymous Bosch. The slide was the right panel of this painting.

Bosch is well known for his paintings having to do with good and evil and religious themes. Particularly striking were his depictions of hell. I guess this was the films subtle wink and nod toward the paths that the boys were walking.

You don't need the acid when looking at that painting. I think I feel a trip coming on.

I loved the music in this film, the cigarette smoking kids, the house parties, etc. I wouldn't want to live like that now....

I hear ya. This film definitely resonates feelings of the times back then. Now when I drink, it's usually by myself like that George Thorogood song. I did spot Carl's dad pouring some J&B, and then I started feeling like an old man.

This film was dark and it took and it progressively took turns for the worst. Maybe I Iiked it because it was as dark as my childhood lol. One thing I liked about the way the film was made is that some films will take an incident, like a shooting, and place it at the beginning of the film then build the film around that incident but in the case of Over the Edge, we build to the point when the incident occurs which is not until over half way through the movie when Richie is shot by the police.

Yeah, it gave us a chance to know the Richie character first, which then makes his death more profound. Richie was a misbehaving kid, perhaps even a bad kid, but he wasn't completely irredeemable or anything of that sort. Raise your hand if you ever stole your mom's car before you were legally able to drive...*slowly raises hand*...so yeah...it's not something I'm proud of, and I look shamefully back on it, so I can't be quick to condemn young Richie as some immoral degenerate. Granted, I never pointed a gun at a cop, so I got that going for me.

 

[Tufts]

To me this movie was about an ecosystem that was out of balance, and we all know what happens when that happens. It is important to note that the movie took place in a planned community built by adults who only thought about adults in the planning of the space. This is evident by the fact that the kids only had a crappy metal building to hang out in, while the wealthy adults in town were living in large, manicured town houses and homes. Yes there was a poorer area. That is because someone had to be available to clean those houses and mow those lawns. The kids would all hang out together because there was only one school and only so many people to hang out with. When they built this new town, it was supposed to get them away from the chaos of cities. It was in the middle of nowhere. The investor calls them out on this by saying they had turned their kids into the kids they had been trying to get away from. There were many wide open spaces seen in a variety of shots, representing the emptiness in the lives of the kids. Twice we saw kids staring at the end of the night stars on the television. They had nothing to do! All that space with nothing to do, to a certain degree it can be expected they would turn to drugs and alcohol as a way to escape the mundanity and emptiness of their lives. Add to that how easily they were judged and harrasssed by the adults, it is not surprising they lived up to the adults expectations.

The kids are treated as the OTHER in this entire movie. We see it at the beginning when Carl's father warns him not to stress out his mother, and afterwards when we see his mom telling him not to stress out his father. Nobody gave a shit about whether Carl was stressed, until it was too late. Even after Carl was beaten up by the bullies, his family did nothing to support him but give him money. When he mouthed off to his father, his father took his stress out on his kid by hitting him, proving that he was no better than the bullies who had already attacked Carl. He was an only child, and he sure as hell was a lonely child. It is no wonder he fell hard for Cory, the girl he saw as being demonized and ostracized by everyone else's insistence in labeling her as a druggie.

The adults in the film were concerned with control. They wanted to control the kids so that they could control their property values. When they were not able to do this, they sought retribution. Meanwhile their kids are pushing limits out of sheer boredom and frustration.

Other examples of how the kids are ostracized is in the tones used by the teachers, in the video on vandalism they were forced to watch, in the way they were treated by the cops. Even at the end, Doberman (you think his name was a coincidence?!) says: I did not come to apologize. I'm sorry. Sorry that he was carrying a handgun. Sorry that he was on drugs. and then he proceeds to straight up lie about Richie being on PCP. All of this while there is the huge looming picture of JFK Jr in the background in his little outfit during his father's funeral. At one point an adult says something about discussing the problems with YOU PEOPLE. The only person who gave a shit about he kids and saw them as humans of value was the rec teacher. Note she had no trouble getting Johnny to cooperate and bring her the phone.

When you treat people like animals or criminals, they will often live up to your expectations. But in the end, they were just children. We see this when Carl says: I've had enough and Cory says: I just want to go home. By the time Carl's dad pulls his head out of his ass and says: My son and his friends are a part of this goddamn town it is too late. Because the truth of the matter is that while Doberman weakly says I can assure you everything is under control, the behavior of the town answered the question: Is the problem with the kids or is the problem with resale values?

I see the ending as somewhat of a triumph. I am sure there was much more for these kids to do on the hill than at home. I believe it is true that in their case Oooo Child things are gonna get easier someday when the world is much brighter..... is QFMFT

It just won't be in a shitty town called New Granada....old Granada would be shaking their head at that travesty of a community!

 

[Tufts]

Grr. My picture of the real Granada didn't post and now it won't let me edit it out.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Grr. My picture of the real Granada didn't post and now it won't let me edit it out.

Operator error.

 

[moreorless87]

Honestly that does pretty much fit my memory of Convoy europe1, even aged 10 I kind of knew it wasn't a very good film rather an extended case of action secenes and macho posturing. In retrospect really it does kind of come across as a vastly less interesting reworking of Vanishing Point to me.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Convoy, man that was a disappointing movie for me. It was okay I guess, but for some reason I had high expectations - especially for a movie written around a song. I think I had some expectations for Burt Young, but this was sort of the beginning of a string of movies not in the Rocky series where he suddenly stopped delivering memorable and interesting supporting characters. Which sucked, because he delivered in the 70s, even in smaller roles than this.

 

[Yotsuya]

Convoy is a problematic movie for sure. I love the first half that introduces the tight knit community of truckers and the idea of convoy and how it’s all glued together by the theme song. Latter half is a drag. The wild and spontaneous rebellion developes into a movement and a media event and rest of the movie sucks. I get it though. Duck was a reluctant hero who would have nothing to do with all that attention and the story is told from his perspective. I usually like it, when the traditional three act story telling (introduction, part where it all sucks, uplifting final) is dumped, but this time it resulted in disappointing watching experience. Regardless I think that Convoy is a good and worthwhile movie. ¨

 

[the muntjac]

Maybe. But the only person I recall firing any shots was Spano's character. Most of the kids didn't really do shit other than be around when others were doing shit. Well, maybe some cheering on.

I remember there being a kid who shot a revolver at a car, blew its trunk off, and then the car just exploded.

I guess why the movie is fun to me is because it represents reality in the trials and tribulations of growing up and delinquency, but then veers off into a bit of a fantasy when it comes to how the kids choose to react. Maybe the end ain't so fun when reality creeps back in after shit gets out of control, someone dies, and kids are sent to spend a little time with the state. But to me what wins out is his friends on the bridge letting him know he's not alone. That's a happy ending in my book and a positive message to boot. This movie is about the importance of friendship in a way. When you're a kid this nothing more important than your buddies.

New Grenada kids never say die! Cue Simple Minds - "Don't You Forget About Me"

The criticism was brought up earlier of this film offering no solutions. The film being from the kids' perspective, it's not necessarily fair to expect that since adults are supposed to be fixing the problems and leading the way. The kids can't change shit and have nothing but rules coming at them from all angles. So their solution reaction was to lock 'em all in the same Hell the kids were forced into each day (i.e. the school), break a bunch of shit, do a little taunting, then scatter when they realized the jig is up.

Well, yeah. The kid's actions at the end were childish and born from immaturity because well, they're children. I was referring to the message that the filmmakers were trying to convey. For as much pontificating as the film does, I guess I was expecting it to present some sort of practical solution. We get quick remarks about the adults not listening to the kids during the town meeting (strangely from a character who showed no growth to reach that discovery), and if the takeaway is that parents shouldn't neglect their kids, then fine. But I've lived in the real world in a dull, meager town, and I know that even with the bowling alleys, drive-ins, and what-not, kids are still going to get themselves into trouble. So I rolled my eyes at this notion when brought up in the movie. Perhaps the lack of any substantial solution provided is a way to say there is no easy solution. Parents do what they can and hope for the best. But I also feel the filmmakers initially envisioned a scene of teenagers trashing a school and blowing up cars, and then shoehorned in a story to reach that point. I feel I must reiterate that I did like the movie despite my problems with it.

Although, I think the real cause of alarm is that the one kids was selling hash for 12 bucks a gram. What?! That's $43 in today's money. There's no way that kid had the good stuff. What a swindler!

 

[the muntjac]

But of course, the GOAT movie about the snowball-effect is...

A small part of me wants to believe that George Lucas watched this movie and based his stormtroopers off the troopers in the chemical suits. Their cadence is also very similar. I know it's a stretch to believe though.

 

[the muntjac]

Convoy is kinda a mess. Most of the time the movie wants you to take it as serious as a Dukes of Hazzard episode with its tongue-in-cheek moments of big rigs smashing around cop cars, which I don't dislike because what's not fun about watching semi-trucks smash into things? But then the movie hits a drab lull moment when they get hounded by the press and the governor, and then things bluntly take a more sincere turn with Spider Mike getting arrested and beaten in prison by the cops. Then Sheriff Cabbie goes all Rambo on Duck's rig. After this jarring shift in tone, we come right back to a jocular conclusion as the truckers fire up another convoy, and Sheriff Cabbie laughs it up. The movie felt disjointed, but I guess that should be expected when it's really all strung together with set pieces of semi-trucks rolling down highways and crashing into cop cars. I don't hate it, but I really wasn't looking forward to rewatching this. I think I've watched it enough for a lifetime.

I thought Over the Edge was the clear better picture between the two.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I remember there being a kid who shot a revolver at a car, blew its trunk off, and then the car just exploded.

You're probably right. Point still stands that most of the heavy lifting (in terms of delinquency) was done by two characters. Most just piled on when mob mentality kicked in. And that volatility was set up in the scene with Claude getting busted and all the kids started rocking the police car (after Richie showed up the cop who couldn't catch him).

For as much pontificating as the film does, I guess I was expecting it to present some sort of practical solution.

Not sure what you consider to be pontificating, but you should read @Tufts' review. She sure managed to pull out some "solutions" that the movie was none too subtle with (but apparently doesn't beat you over the head enough with ).

Glad you liked it and hash sucks.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

After this jarring shift in tone, we come right back to a jocular conclusion as the truckers fire up another convoy, and Sheriff Cabbie laughs it up.

What did you take from Lyle laughing?

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I see the ending as somewhat of a triumph. I am sure there was much more for these kids to do on the hill than at home. I believe it is true that in their case Oooo Child things are gonna get easier someday when the world is much brighter..... is QFMFT

Thanks by the way. Every time I woke up in the middle of the night (and all the way to work today) this song has been stuck in my head.

 

[the muntjac]

What did you take from Lyle laughing?

His exasperation that Duck was still alive. It’s one of those moments when you’re so angry at something, but you can’t help but laugh at the situation. It was there for comedic effect though.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

His exasperation that Duck was still alive. It’s one of those moments when you’re so angry at something, but you can’t help but laugh at the situation. It was there for comedic effect though.

I thought the laugh was him letting go of his anger.

Don't see how it added a comedic effect. It's hardly laugh-inducing on its own.

 

[the muntjac]

I thought the laugh was him letting go of his anger.

That’s a good way to look at it. Perhaps he keeps it to himself that he saw Duck, or at least thinks he saw Duck, and just lets the grudge go.

Don't see how it added a comedic effect. It's hardly laugh-inducing on its own.

Well, a lot of stuff was supposed to be funny in the film, but really wasn’t. His laugh was more for us to laugh at him since he was the baddie and now has egg on his face, at least from the audience’s perspective.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

That’s a good way to look at it. Perhaps he keeps it to himself that he saw Duck, or at least thinks he saw Duck, and just lets the grudge go.

Maybe like how in the fight game bitter rivals can develop a bond. Happens in other movies too.

 

[Tufts]

Thanks by the way. Every time I woke up in the middle of the night (and all the way to work today) this song has been stuck in my head.

Thank you! I felt there was a lot to discuss about this particular movie but have had zero to no reactions to my post. To me it sure said a lot about society trying to reinvent itself in a safe one dimensional manner. I feel that the plight of those kids occurs universally in the US and honestly, the movie left me heartbroken and bereft.