SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: WEEK 114: Coherence

Discussion in 'Mayberry Lounge' started by europe1, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. MusterX

    MusterX Steel Belt

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    If he works with physics stuff and likes this sort of thing, and knows that its a quantum mechanics puzzle then he may love it.
     
  2. MusterX

    MusterX Steel Belt

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    Bruh, I don't know, about any of it. All I know is this film is a tremendous illustration of the actual weirdness that we are living within every day. Our reality is mind bending once you introduce quantum mechanics into it. Not that anyone would besides my dumb ass but if you start reading and watching videos about quantum mechanics, superposition, quantum entanglement, the double slit experiment, atoms being 99.9% air, then it just gets weirder and weirder as you go. The only thing that might be "real" is the energy keeping all this stuff going, you, me, the planets, the stars, everything is just energy.

    We don't even know where the energy comes from. How does an electron hold its charge for eons? How does a proton appear in two places at once? The list of questions wold just go on forever it seems. Your consciousness, and your free will, may be a part of that energy system. Infinite maybe. Perhaps this cycle on the material plane where a universe is spawned and slowly dies over billions of years has already happened infinite times.

    Maybe you were a part of that over and over, a part of the energy system that we know for a fact exists but we can't figure out where the energy comes from. Some call it God, others look for answers in science, but I'm not sure we are even close to explaining how reality is constructed. That is how physics, and then quantum physics began, as a way to understand how reality is constructed at the base level. Well, we finally got the tech to start getting down to the base level and what we see is mind boggling and makes no sense.
     
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  3. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre Steel Belt

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    That could make sense. Amir sees Hugh go around a corner at the house, then come out of the house and put a box down, then go back inside(?), Amir grabs the box out of curiosity, then Hugh emerges from back around the corner with a bump on his head (all freaked out so they run). This "I thought I saw you put the box down" was pretty vague. Not sure the particular sequence adds up. Like you said, lots to digest.

    Hugh deserved to get cucked in all universes.
     
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  4. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre Steel Belt

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    When I mentioned Scrotumdinger's Theory he seemed psyched. So there's that.


    In all sincerity, you're a real asset to the club.
     
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  5. MusterX

    MusterX Steel Belt

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    One of the decor changes was the broken glass scene and then in another scene the glass wasn't broken.

    There was also the conversation where Emily realized she was in the wrong house.

    The group now finds out that Beth had given Lee the drops. Emily1 and the group wonder about the drug in the food. After the discussion in the kitchen with the drops, Lee asks Beth about her vase.
    [​IMG]

    ... a conversation that Emily realizes the two characters already had much before the dinner party started (in House1):
    [​IMG]

    So I don't know how many little clues there are but even after seeing the movie three times I'm thinking I probably missed stuff.
     
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  6. MusterX

    MusterX Steel Belt

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    He did get cucked lol. Mike is all up in his shit when he gets drunk. "If I banged your wife I did it in every single reality." Mike pays though because Hugh roughs him up and is dragged away and then right at that moment another Mike busts in carrying a green glow stick and beats the shit out of himself right after Hugh did. Was this some kind of karma playing out here where Mike was punishing himself? He took two ass kickings for it though.
     
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  7. sickc0d3r

    sickc0d3r Black Belt

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    No shit. I am blown away by actual science all the time. GPS satellites have to account for the fact that time passes AT A DIFFERENT RATE on Earth than in orbit. FFS. And yes, solid objects are mostly energy, and the solid sensation is the reaction of particles in proximity. One could turn to weed to cope with all this if one were so inclined.

    Let me preface by saying I'm just a dumbass sherdogger spitballing this movie, ok?

    But I don't think it mean different choices were actually made, ever. It means different choices were possible, and here's Laurie13, the shiny new slut who would have made those choices!
     
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  8. sickc0d3r

    sickc0d3r Black Belt

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    I noticed the glass because it was the focus in a couple of shots.

    Pretty sure I missed the vase conversation.

    I was thinking about the wall art and pictures and such. There were a lot of paintings. I want to see if they ever come into focus and what they contain.
     
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  9. MusterX

    MusterX Steel Belt

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    That and also the authentication items like oven mitt, stapler, ping pong paddle, etc. If you can spot which item is on the table you will know what house you are in.
     
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  10. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre Steel Belt

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    Yeah, pussy ain't free. It hasn't been clear though on the 12 years thing. Was that to write the sin off due to age or to absolve it by being pre-Hugh? It's a kick in the balls either way, but it sure changes the group's culpability.

    [​IMG]

    Then we're on equal footing.

    <28>


    Let's simplfy things right here. When there was all that catty talk about Laurie in tight dresses, weren't you imagining something more like this?

    [​IMG]

    And look what we got instead. Nevermind. We already saw. It was...

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. sickc0d3r

    sickc0d3r Black Belt

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    [​IMG]

    Laurie looked like a vampire, practically glowing white and not super attractive. I was hoping for a hotty with some light spanking to follow. Em was waaaaaayyyy hotter, and Kevin was a dumbass.
     
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  12. sickc0d3r

    sickc0d3r Black Belt

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    Yeah, the box is another major aspect (presumably symbolizing Schrodinger's box). You can pick something to focus on and rewatch a dozen times. Really just a cool movie. I appreciate you for bringing it to the club. Now I need to look out for similar movies like Primer, which I've never seen.
     
  13. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre Steel Belt

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    Now we're talkin' some fuckin' movie.


    [​IMG]


    Kevin was the hot blonde's dude? Yeah, he should have been out roulette'ing those options. In the outtakes would be the shot of him stealing Hugh's dick pills.

    Had a theme in mind that could include this film. I'm pegging you as a supporter. :D

    [​IMG]


    Or is that a bit too much?
     
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  14. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre Steel Belt

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    [​IMG]
     
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  15. europe1

    europe1 It´s a nice peninsula to Asia

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    Again, that seems more like a statement against the movie than for it. If it is fundamentally incomprehensible -- why talk about a movie about the subject as if it makes any rational sense? :D

    I know I'm shooting the shit here. Big if we're going to talk about this movie having any meaning or conclusion -- then it has to make sense, no?

    What I'm saying is, it kind of sounds like you're stating it's inherently unexplainable... and then trying to explain it anyways.:D

    So it's like a Limit in Math.

    The blue line approaches x (0 in this instant) yet never actually reaches Zero, since you can always say it is 0.00000...0000....0000 and then add a 1 in the end, you can always add another 0, hence there are an infinate amount of growth.

    [​IMG]

    Umm... what are you trying to say here?

    The ring still just seems like an arbitrary token for me. Quantum physics should not describe such importance to it.

    So why wasn't she Entangled with the girl on the phone, seeing as they were observable (well, not observable in the visual sense of course) when they boyfriend interacted with the both of them.

    Alright, but that doesn't account for the original inquiry.

    We know that the sea of possibility extends to all of their life and not just up-until the Meteor hits.

    There is still a possibility for Amir to have become President and fired the nukes. Or to take it more plainly, for Amir to have not show up for the dinner party at all. Or for the short-haired woman not to house a dinner party at all.

    Had the "possibilities" only started branching out after the Meteor hits, then relative consistency would have been expected. But since the "sea of possibilities" extends to before the event occurred as well, (like the woman not recognizing the actor in one TV-show, because in that possibility he was never on the TV-show at all, which happened before the Dinner Party), we would expect very drastic differences between the possibilities.

    Which also births the inquiry. If reality exists independent on the possibilities (as quantum physics postulates... and we as observers only have an observable reality when we nail one possibility down by observing it... I think?), how can the events of the past -- before the meteor hit -- have been altered, since different previous possibilities would have impacted reality and thus changed reality as well?:confused:
     
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  16. MusterX

    MusterX Steel Belt

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    I did not even think of the box symbolizing Schrodinger's box.

    <TheWire1>

    Primer is an excellent film, tough to get a timeline nailed down on as well. The interesting thing is its also low budget like Coherence. Another weird one that, as it turns out, provided a ton of good club discussion is the movie Pi (1998). That one is much deeper that you might expect and our discussion was off the chain on that movie. Now that I think about it, there are some damn good low budget films. Its hard to do but when done right that can be as good as a large Hollywood production with millions.

    I can tell you I have probably had more enjoyment out of Coherence ($50,000 budget), Primer (made for a mind boggling $7,000), and Pi ($60,000) than all sorts of big budget films that cost millions to make. In fact if you watch Primer or Pi, you really should check out our discussions on those movies, especially Pi (1998) but I can't remember which week where were off the top of my head.

    My trusty Sherdog IMDb will tell me though. I can't remember who keeps this up to date but great job on that whoever.
    https://www.imdb.com/list/ls060610430/

    Primer was week 8 and Pi was week 16. I'm not even sure if those discussions are part of the archive yet, they may not even still be around.
     
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  17. MusterX

    MusterX Steel Belt

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    It does make sense, but only under a set of rules related to quantum mechanics. I'm not saying its incomprehensible. I'm saying that nobody understands why it works the way it does. If you wanted a strong layman's grasp of it you could probably read about it for a few weeks and watch videos and get that layman's grasp. If you wanted university level grasp of quantum mechanics it would take years of your life, and then at the very apex there are only a few men i the world truly on the cutting edge of quantum mechanics.

    We know a proton can remain motionless, and be in motion, simultaneously. Can you even attempt to explain that? Nobody can explain how quantum entanglement works regardless of distance, instantly. Even at a distance of 1,000 light years away, one effects the other instantaneously.

    Ummm, yes in some way I'm sure that is a good comparison. Its the same as you sitting on your chair. You aren't actually touching the chair. You are extremely close to touching the chair but you are hovering due to the electric field of the chair coming into proximity with the electric field of your body.

    In the world of "Atoms". When you sit in a chair, you are not actually sitting on it, but levitating above it at the height of one angstrom, your electrons and its electrons oppose any closer contact. The negatively charged fields of you and of the chair repel each other.

    An angtrom is 10 the the WTF power.

    The ångström or angstrom is a unit of length equal to 10⁻¹⁰ m (one ten-billionth of a metre) or 0.1 nm. Its symbol is Å, a letter in the Swedish alphabet.

    [​IMG]

    So you get close to the chair but you can never actually sit on it. We live in a weird weird place. If not for the electrical fields of the atoms in the chair and the atoms in your body you would pass right through the chair. Makes you wonder, its almost as if nothing is there.

    Ok, its not a perfect illustration of quantum mechanics, its a movie that is trying to give a basic lesson in quantum mechanics. Its just the film's way of saying that the two Emily's have become entangled. The ring is a symbolic gesture, both in real life and in this film. Its a way of conveying a message about a more complex topic.

    They are not literally entangled like two protons at the subatomic level. Its just a way to explain the fundamentals of this really freaky science. Entanglement at the subatomic level almost like the two become a mirror image but in the film its a way to say that Emily1 and Emily2 ended up in the same place when they shouldn't have.

    I wouldn't expect things to be drastically different because most people are going to be basically the same. Meaning the odds of you encountering the one that became Adolf Hitler is slim, there was only one Adolf. Some of the difference in possibility was pretty extreme though. Emily in the base reality had her life stolen by an understudy who became famous and she wanted the other branch of the tree where that never happened.

    I feel like it was really set up well with the original dinner party. Laurie the new girl comes in and basically emasculates Emily in front of all her friends. It was a very uncomfortable scene that the other characters tried to quickly smooth over by saying yea but she is nothing compared to you and then with Laurie saying, so she basically stole your whole life.

    @sickc0d3r and @Cubo de Sangre while getting this clip for Europe1 I noticed something in the dinner scene that never occurred to be me before. Starting at 0:58 Emily tells the story of how a woman calls the police and says this is not my husband and the police say how do you know, he's standing right there, and she says, "because I killed him yesterday." Maybe this explains why Emily1 tried to kill Emily2 and it didn't work.

    <TheWire1>



    @europe1 I couldn't find a clip of the part where Emily gets gutted but I really felt it was done well and it also explains at the end why she desperately wants to find that place where that event never happened.

    I don't think reality exists independently of the possibilities, they are somehow woven together as one, like time and space being connected as one. I'm not even sure exactly what you are saying. I would need a lot more coffee and time to think about it what you might possibly mean or how that actually might be worked out.
     
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  18. MusterX

    MusterX Steel Belt

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    Yea that is also mind blowing stuff. The faster you travel, the slower time goes and we've tested that theory by placing an atomic clock in space traveling at 17,000mph that is synchronized with an atomic clock on Earth and when we bring the space clock down its no longer synchronized with the Earth clock. Einstein was way ahead of his time on these things. Time and space are relative. At near the speed of light time slows almost to a stop. That means people on a fast moving spacecraft could survive hundreds of years, not aging. This stuff is so weird you couldn't make it up.

    We are talking about what scientists call time dilation.

    According to the theory of relativity, time dilation is a difference in the elapsed time measured by two observers, either due to a velocity difference relative to each other, or by being differently situated relative to a gravitational field. As a result of the nature of spacetime,[2] a clock that is moving relative to an observer will be measured to tick slower than a clock that is at rest in the observer's own frame of reference. A clock that is under the influence of a stronger gravitational field than an observer's will also be measured to tick slower than the observer's own clock.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation


    Funny, there is that word gravity popping up again. Strange thing about time dilation is we may have seen that in Coherence as well when Kevin asked Mike where have you been and Mike says I went to leave the note. Kevin says you were only gone 5 minutes and Mike says no, I was gone 45 minutes. That is time dilation as Mike was passing through the dark zone.
     
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  19. MusterX

    MusterX Steel Belt

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    Its always easier when you can say, "yea but that was a long time ago." It did seem Mike was facing some karma from his alcoholic days because after Hugh kicked his ass, he kicked his own ass. Only a drunk would think to write a note blackmailing himself about banging his friends wife in the past.
     
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  20. the muntjac

    the muntjac Black Belt

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    Are you in belief that whichever reality a particular character winds up in, that is the reality that they will now continue existing in once the comet's effects are over? We see the Blue Lights Em end up in a reality where she's trying to delete another Em, so do you also think the reality that had two Mikes tied to chairs will continue being a reality in and of itself?

    I actually put the text over the photo. I just took what you wrote to make you sound like a brainiac like Lisa, while I was Homer reacting in stunned bewilderment. Basically, just making a joke.

    Here's the actual clip.



    As you can see, what Lisa said went over Homer's head, and then Homer was condescending by talking to her like a child, even though Lisa is way smarter than him. This is why this show is hilarious...or was hilarious. Fuck it, in my reality, there weren't any seasons past 10.

    Okay, I get what you're saying about all of the possible realities and such within the "cloud", which is when we see the characters stumble around in dark zones and different houses, but at the end when it's now morning and the comet's effects are seemingly over, we're left with seeing more than one Em in that reality. So, this is because her proton being is split where she's now simultaneously at two places at the same time, and as she slowly melds back together, she's feeling the effects that she inflicted on the other Em? Then that begs to ask, the Em that makes the phone call to Kevin, where the heck was she? Obviously, their meld hasn't happened yet because this other Em is still existing in another spot separate from her to be able to pick up a phone and call somebody. If we're saying that Em still exists because of the proton diagram, then if we use that illustration above, if Blue Lights Em is the proton being sent through the metal slits, then that Em, murderous intent and all, is what's being split through two separate yet coexisting planes. So Em on the phone would have had the same evil personality, right? Assuming their from the same proton source. Otherwise, why would they have deviant personalities?

    Yeah, I caught that there were two Mikes tied to chairs, and in red here where you say, "when things go back to normal," are you saying that when the reality that had two Mikes goes back to normal, will that be separate from the reality that had an Em trying to delete another Em, or do they all come back to one coherent reality? And if they do all come back to one coherent reality, how would that work since the Mike in the "two Ems" reality had no interaction with the "Tied-up Mikes" reality? And if not that, then it seems like we're dealing with multiverses, which I'm not sure why we're being so quick to dismiss.

    Going in line with the thinking of multiverses, every possibility becomes a reality. For example, when the characters roll the dice, every possible outcome they could have rolled becomes a reality, hence why a lot of the characters' numbers don't match up with the number they rolled when Em is asking them what their numbers were because they had been leaving the house and walking into the dark zone roulette machine and being sent to different houses/different realities. Mike even says something at one point referring to a movie about a subway train collapsing or not collapsing on a girl's hand, and he specifically says that possible realities are happening every second, which is what we're seeing in this movie. Alternate realities are existing through all possible outcomes, and these alternate realities deviate from each other because of their possible outcomes. Hence why the Murdering Invading Em's behavior is deviant from the Cheerful, Peaceful Em.

    I think early on, the Schrodinger's Cat theory was in the movie to first explain why there were two separate realities, that being the Blue Light Group and the Red Light Group. But later we learn that there are more than two realities and seemingly an infinite amount of realities, so it became Schrodinger's Car times infinity since alternate realities were branching off every second due to the possible outcomes of the characters' actions.

    [​IMG]

    The quantum-mechanical "Schrödinger's cat" theorem according to the many-worlds interpretation. In this interpretation, every event is a branch point; the cat is both alive and dead, even before the box is opened, but the "alive" and "dead" cats are in different branches of the universe, both of which are equally real, but which do not interact with each other.[1]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation

    I just found this on google about how a Many-Worlds Theory interprets the Schrodinger Cat's idea. Apparently, the Many-Worlds Interpretation is also known as the Multiverse Theory, and it states "Many-worlds, however, views historical reality as a many-branched tree, wherein every possible quantum outcome is realised." I think we're dealing with multiverses in this movie.
     
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