Shady Sparring Story

[Swoliosis]

maybe the 200lb guy had been talking some shit, who knows. there are plenty of noobs who deserve it

There might be a backstory. Who knows. I trained at a gym that held conditioning classes for local high school and college athletes (mostly baseball and football guys) and my BJJ instructor would encourage some of them to try grappling.

There was a guy who I believe played baseball for one of the local community colleges and was beating up on some of the other noobs in class and my instructor didn’t like it too much. I think he told him to cool down a couple of times too. The guy must have been 6’1 around 210 pounds pretty athletic and my coach pairs me with him for live grappling. I’m about Frankie Edgar’s size give or take and right away could tell the guy was going 100.

My coach pulls me aside and tells me to not take it easy on him and show him ‘what’s up’ It was pretty fun throwing this dude around and submitting him. I was novice at BJJ but had about 4 years of HS/JUCO wrestling and a green belt in Judo at the time. I don’t think I saw the dude come back after that class.

 

[randomg1t]

I think that's too soft. They need to be shocked a little, the realism needs to be there as they train or else they are going to freeze paralyzed and get almost literally murdered IRL or in their first fight otherwise.

People think that their mind already knows how to analyze and act during a fight. That's not true at all. A real fight (sanctioned or otherwise) is nasty in ways that no one would be able to predict, the kinds of things you feel and think, the problems you have, the absolute madness of dynamics-- nothing can prepare you for that unless you've been in it to a decent extent. Mere touching is lying (that's what McDojo's do and the reason they have their typical McDojo results) and setting them up for something much much worse in life.

If it's not injuring them so they have to heal instead of come to class, but still hurts and is very unpleasant when you make mistakes, that's how it needs to be, somewhere along those lines. Anything else is kidding oneself.

It also needs to be said that even in fraud McDojo classes, the possibility of injury is still there.

There is such a thing as sparring too early, but when it is time to spar, the sparring needs to be real.

There are more fake places that offer to "teach" than real. If people are uncomfortable with the truth, they can always find and take their pick of fraudulent places nearby like one of these.

no one suggested that sparring should never be hard.

we were talking about beginners sparring for the first time, with experienced people. and when we say hit them lightly, we don't mean give them a hug. but there's a lot of room between karate no contact bullshit and knocking someone out. even getting touched up is uncomfortable, but it does not concuss you, or give you a black eye. those are counter productive with someone who has no tools to handle the situation. you need at least elementary technique, a semi-decent physical shape, and some understanding about what's going on. otherwise you're a bag getting wailed on, and do nothing but shell up and panic. an experience like that will drive people away, when they could become quite good if brought up correctly.

with time, people who want it will get to spar harder and harder. when they themselves have some control, things can get a lot more intense with other experienced guys at the gym, but a complete noob is in no position to either make that call or handle what's coming.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

no one suggested that sparring should never be hard.

we were talking about beginners sparring for the first time, with experienced people. and when we say hit them lightly, we don't mean give them a hug. but there's a lot of room between karate no contact bullshit and knocking someone out. even getting touched up is uncomfortable, but it does not concuss you, or give you a black eye. those are counter productive with someone who has no tools to handle the situation. you need at least elementary technique, a semi-decent physical shape, and some understanding about what's going on. otherwise you're a bag getting wailed on, and do nothing but shell up and panic. an experience like that will drive people away, when they could become quite good if brought up correctly.

with time, people who want it will get to spar harder and harder. when they themselves have some control, things can get a lot more intense with other experienced guys at the gym, but a complete noob is in no position to either make that call or handle what's coming.

I somewhat agree. A complete noob should not be sparring at all. Drills, maybe. But even in drills you can get a black eye or split lip, I don't think those are that bad. A serious concussion is where I draw the line, unless you did it to yourself. If you dash into someone's jab you can KO yourself.

If the noob thinks he's hot stuff or is trying to injure other students he needs a dose of reality though. I see nothing wrong in that case with him roughed up significantly.

My coach was pretty rough on people, he would go full speed and intensity, at a significant 70% power to help people lose their misconceptions about fighting, and he wouldn't let up either if you got yourself in a corner or froze, because you it doesn't work that way in the ring or elsewhere. He wasn't being competitive, he was being realistic. He wouldn't up his effort if they started winning or doing things that worked. He was an awesome coach and taught the technical stuff, but sparred like something you'd meet in an alley (on purpose).

Sometimes it lost new students. No one got overly hurt though, except their egos.

 

[jm0b]

Everyone that is condoning, or creating, the fictitious backstories whereby this completely untrained grown man has been "dissing" a 16 year old are being totally ridiculous lol

On the nuances of how to prepare a novice for their first fight through some hard sparring - sure. But only after they've given indication they want to compete.

Otherwise you're just feeding your ego and enjoying beating on someone who is untrained and unaware.

"They got out of line so I beat them up"

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Everyone that is condoning, or creating, the fictitious backstories whereby this completely untrained grown man has been "dissing" a 16 year old are being totally ridiculous lol

On the nuances of how to prepare a novice for their first fight through some hard sparring - sure. But only after they've given indication they want to compete.

Otherwise you're just feeding your ego and enjoying beating on someone who is untrained and unaware.

"They got out of line so I beat them up"

being ridiculous? You ever heard of Charlie Z? There's people like him everywhere, they just don't have a youtube following and video camera. Not saying that is the case with OP's story, but still there are plenty of gym stories where the guy deserved it

 

[jm0b]

being ridiculous? You ever heard of Charlie Z? There's people like him everywhere, they just don't have a youtube following and video camera. Not saying that is the case with OP's story, but still there are plenty of gym stories where the guy deserved it

I'm not saying they don't exist either, I never said that at all. I'm talking about this instance - just like I was in the OP.

It's just funny seeing guys stroke their ego with "well if it was me!" attitudes over something that isn't the case here at all.

 

[BluntTrauma21]

I'm not saying they don't exist either, I never said that at all. I'm talking about this instance - just like I was in the OP.

It's just funny seeing guys stroke their ego with "well if it was me!" attitudes over something that isn't the case here at all.

Have you seen the big guy back yet?How have the trainers treated you since you've joined. Do they want to throw you into spar already with guys who are better and been there longer? Wondering if this was a onetime deal or they do this too most of the new guys.

I know Manny Steward did this type of thing to Hearns back in the day and Hearns was just a child at the time.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

I'm not saying they don't exist either, I never said that at all. I'm talking about this instance - just like I was in the OP.

It's just funny seeing guys stroke their ego with "well if it was me!" attitudes over something that isn't the case here at all.

i dont think there is ego stroking here, i forgot you were OP, but most people just spinned off your post to describe other unrelated possibilities/gym stories

 

[PeakyBlinder]

Sound like a bunch of divs

 

[Woldog]

Joined a new gym recently.

Walked in last night to see a competent, ~126lb 16yo completely light up a ~200lb much taller novice. And when I say novice, I mean it looked like his first night in a sparring session.

The trainers were encouraging it. The novice just wouldn't throw punches and was getting hurt to the body because he was totally unprepared mentally or physically for the punishment. I don't care who you are, even weak liver shots hurt.

There was a lot of laughing and taunting going on. They were building the kid up I guess... But I think it's shameful to mismatch so poorly.

I think it's pretty shady practice. Wondering what your opinions are?

Mate, I'm 64kg my first sparring session at the gym was against a 88kg professional who detonated a bomb in my liver. My 2nd was against a 124kg Fijian who beat the breaks off me. It toughens you up, they show you boxing is a real sport straight of the bat so you can decide if you're here to stay or just here to say "I go to a boxing gym"

 

[Shoemaker]

Walked in last night to see a competent, ~126lb 16yo completely light up a ~200lb much taller novice. And when I say novice, I mean it looked like his first night in a sparring session.

I'm a little confused. You said you walked in to see them sparring. But when people suggested that something happened before you showed up, you seem pretty sure it didn't.

Not trying to be an ass, but my initial thought was "maybe he had it coming." A gym I used to go to was frequented by tough guys pretty regularly. They would come in looking for the hardest person they could find. We had a pro that they got fed to ever time. Part of it was so they'd learn they weren't actually as good as they thought (not a bad lesson to learn), but it was also because the pro had a really hard time finding good work in our area. So if someone came in saying they could give him a run for his money, it was at least worth finding out. They never were any good, though.

 

[nastyleft]

I think that's too soft. They need to be shocked a little, the realism needs to be there as they train or else they are going to freeze paralyzed and get almost literally murdered IRL or in their first fight otherwise.

People think that their mind already knows how to analyze and act during a fight. That's not true at all. A real fight (sanctioned or otherwise) is nasty in ways that no one would be able to predict, the kinds of things you feel and think, the problems you have, the absolute madness of dynamics-- nothing can prepare you for that unless you've been in it to a decent extent. Mere touching is lying (that's what McDojo's do and the reason they have their typical McDojo results) and setting them up for something much much worse in life.

If it's not injuring them so they have to heal instead of come to class, but still hurts and is very unpleasant when you make mistakes, that's how it needs to be, somewhere along those lines. Anything else is kidding oneself.

It also needs to be said that even in fraud McDojo classes, the possibility of injury is still there.

There is such a thing as sparring too early, but when it is time to spar, the sparring needs to be real.

There are more fake places that offer to "teach" than real. If people are uncomfortable with the truth, they can always find and take their pick of fraudulent places nearby like one of these.

Well Im referring to stinging the guy but not knocking him out. Thats what I refer to as "touching" his openings.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

Well Im referring to stinging the guy but not knocking him out. Thats what I refer to as "touching" his openings.

Yeah okay. "Touching" is the wrong word haha. 'Stinging' is much more accurate

--

Gym mates shouldn't be "chasing the KO" but if they do, then they deserve to get the tables turned on them. It happens A LOT, especially with new guys. It's not uncommon in the least in gyms, dunno why TS thinks it is when he just joined.

Trying to actively KO a gym mate is wrong but wailing on them pretty good is not if they're leaving the openings-- they actually need it for accurate feedback. People will get wobbled in sparring sometimes, especially during a counter, that's just what a counter does.

After the person is obviously wobbled, it's wrong to go in for the KO-- it's better to start tapping them really soft but high volume so you don't shut them off but it still leaves the pressure on and is scary as hell to the guy who's feeling shaky, gives them a chance to figure a way out, like they would need to in a more serious situation. They can always call it off if they want, if it's that bad for them at that point, which even the toughest guy will- quit with his body language or verbally if he can't take any more. No shame in that.

 

[nastyleft]

being ridiculous? You ever heard of Charlie Z? There's people like him everywhere, they just don't have a youtube following and video camera. Not saying that is the case with OP's story, but still there are plenty of gym stories where the guy deserved it

Well a Charlie Z gets KO'd or the shit beat out of him like this video: