Shadowboxing w/ weights issue again

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by ImTechn9que, May 29, 2006.

  1. ImTechn9que

    ImTechn9que Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    0
    ok, so the majority opinion here from other posts i've seen is that shadowboxing with weights will actually slow down your hands and shouldn't be done

    so far in videos i've seen fedor, aleks, royce, john wayne parr (k-1), de la hoya, tyson and other boxers i can't remember right now doing it

    i was just wondering if there is actual evidence that is will slow down your hand speed over time or is it all just based on your personal preference
     
  2. Centaur

    Centaur Black Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    6,608
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    On the Excalibur.
    I've never seen the one with Fedor do it. If you have a link that would be cool if you could post it.

    IMO, when you shadow box, your hands/arms are moving out(abbduction) in whats known as the transverse plane. Dumbells only really work when acting in accordance to gravity, so it doesn't seem they'd help, at least not much anyhow.

    Basically, dumbells = up/down, boxing = in/out. A better way would be to us tension bands.
    Just my 2 cents
     
  3. xinster

    xinster Guest

    yes, this is just basic physics i dont think its good for your shoulder joints at all, not to mention your wrists.

    i disagree about the tension bands though... i would stick to weights for strength and heavy bag for core punch training.
     
  4. Centaur

    Centaur Black Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    6,608
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    On the Excalibur.

    Can't argue the weights/heavy bag thing. But with the tension bands, have you ever tried them? Wrap them around a post, get the middle behind you and do straights against some pads? I defintly notices an improvement in my hand speed ater just a few weeks of doing this. Just 1 or 2 2-minutes rounds a couple times a week.

    I've also training vids at Fairtex in Thailand doing it aswell.
    Give it a shot sometime (if you haven't already), let me know what you think.

    peace
     
  5. xinster

    xinster Guest

    i would, but i dont have any bands.
     
  6. majmun

    majmun Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,078
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    USA
    I've been using weights when I shadow box. Doesn't it strengthen the muscles in your arms and shoulders that you use to punch? Another reason I do it is because it makes me sweat a lot more than without the weights.
     
  7. Matt Thornton

    Matt Thornton Amateur Fighter

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,890
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    It's a good idea, as long as you do it right.

    You need to find a weight that barely slows your hands down. Somewhere in the 1-3 pound range. And don't just jump for the 3 pounds.

    Use small, small weights, so that if you put in a lot of effort, you can get your hand speed to how it normally is with your hands unweighted. Throw the punches in short bursts, take a couple seconds' rest in between, and throw another short burst. Throw 20 punches total before taking a 2-3 minute break.

    The problem is, people use the weights to induce fatigue. THAT is what slows your hands down. If you want to fatigue yourself more, throw more punches, faster, and harder. Bands and weights are not for endurance training. Building speed through plyos or plyo-type exercises CANNOT be done to fatigue.

    So, use 1-2 pound weights (3 if you have very fast hands), and throw 1-2-1-2 as fast as you can. Whip your arms out there, and keep your hands high. Take 5 seconds off, and repeat the 1-2-1-2. Do a total of 5 sets. After 2-3 minutes' rest, if you can throw your hands as fast as before, do another set. Stop doing any kind of hand speed exercise when your hands start to slow down.

    You can use heavier weights for uppercuts. But the trick is, if you're throwing a normal effort punch (75 to 80%?) without weights, then the weight that you use must be light enough that if you use max effort, you can throw your hands as fast as they normally are.

    And remember, of course, with any hand speed program, you need to also integrate timing and accuracy exercises (focus mitts and sparring), because hand speed is nothing if you can't connect clean.
     
  8. Senshi

    Senshi Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    4,095
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Motoyoshi, Japan

    at about two minutes into this one you can see him and his partners shadowboxing, they look like 1lb weights. there was another where you see him shadowboxing by himself and he's doing it for so long that when he throws a punch the sweat is literally flying off his arm as he throws is. i have that one and i'll see if i can find it on my computer. but for now there is this one and....
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5944010850998227230&q=fedor

    this ons is a HL and i think it has a clip of the part i was talking about
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2668600716337301664&q=fedor+and+training
     
  9. majmun

    majmun Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,078
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    USA
    I shadow box with 5lb. weights. Should I not do that, and if not, why?
     
  10. Senshi

    Senshi Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    4,095
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Motoyoshi, Japan
    i use 3 lbs but then again i am no expert, i've heard that you shouldn't overthrow your punches in running the risk of damaging your shoulder.
     
  11. majmun

    majmun Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,078
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Well, I started with 2lb weights, but it didn't feel much different than without weights, so I moved up to 5lb.
     
  12. Senshi

    Senshi Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    4,095
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Motoyoshi, Japan
    i bet kabuki would have a better advice on this than i
     
  13. Senshi

    Senshi Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    4,095
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Motoyoshi, Japan
    here is that fedor training video i was looking for from before. towards the end you can see him throwing sweat bombs. even if you guys dont box check this out to see how much of a madman this guy is.

    http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0R66WODJ
     
  14. SnowBlynd

    SnowBlynd Red Belt

    Joined:
    May 15, 2006
    Messages:
    9,917
    Likes Received:
    493
    Location:
    florida 561
    Instead of using weights I like to train in the ocean (or deep end of a pool). I don't know if it has any scientific merit, but I like to think it improves speed and form.
     
  15. xinster

    xinster Guest

    jus cause fedor does it doesnt make it physically logical thing to do.
     
  16. krait

    krait Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,077
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Dallas

    Man thats a lot of weight. Are you a really big guy. Its not a matter of feeling the weights. If they feel heavy then they might be to much. You can really jack up joints. Force equals speed X mass. If you have a heavy weight and are trying to shadow box to improve your hand speed your going to to be throwing your hands put as fast as you can. That puts a lot of stress on your joints when you extend. Especially when you get tired and over extend.

    Now I've known some people that say they hae never had a problem with weights when Shadw boxing. But I've meet others that the weights wreaked havoc on their shoulders and wrists.

    I don't use weights personally but the people that I know do rarely go over 3 pounds. and these are big guys also.
     
  17. majmun

    majmun Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,078
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    USA
    No, I'm practically a midget. 5' 6" and 145-148 pounds. I don't go hard with the weights, so I don't over extend, and I only do it for 3-6 minutes at a time.
     
  18. krait

    krait Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,077
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Dallas

    Well if your going slow with a lot of weight your actually slowing yourself down. You have two kinds of muscles, Fast twich for speed and slow twitch for endurance. If your using more weight at slower speeds for longer times you'll build the endurance but not any hand speed. Think of it like this. If you where training to be a sprinter would you train by running long distnces at a jog or practice by doing sprints and such. You want to do things that will train the your muscles to explode to get the hand speed, not jog. Endurance is still a good thing for latter in a fight when your tired and can't keep your hands up. But if speed is what your looking for, 5 pounds and having to go slow isn't going to get you there. it all depends on what your goal is.

    Not saying that weights while shadow boxing is bad. It seems to work for some people. But I'd move down in weight some. Remeber the whole point of Shadow boxing is to keep your form correct. If you have sloppy form becuase your carrying too much weight your hurting your training not helping.
     
  19. lena

    lena Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    692
    Likes Received:
    288
    Location:
    East Asia
    Not good for the shoulders, sounds like a great way to get a rotator cuff injury.
     
  20. gotHEARTfighter

    gotHEARTfighter Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2006
    Messages:
    588
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Plano, TX
    people that say it will slow you down either dont train, dont fight, or are stupid. use 2-3lb (ish) weights. alternate between weighted and not every other round. its the same thing as getting real heavy glove. if your just a weighlifter please dont act like you know what your talking about here.


    normally if you train at a gym, youll shadowbox before skill work... which wont involve weights. s
     

Share This Page