Sexual harassment claims have gone too far.

[MikeMcMann]

Good luck bro.seriously good luck ..if you want a relationship that last past five years I hope you progress more in the male/female dynamics dept.
Please don’t take that as a personal diss,I truly am trying to help you...you are trying to equate sexual aggression as “mind games”..women really do like to be desired and shown through physical aggression that a man wants them..any sociologist worth there weight in salt will back that claim up...he’ll ill help you here.
https://www.bustle.com/articles/724...rdered-around-in-bed-because-yes-you-can-be-a

Article by a sex therapist from San Francisco that further backs our collective claims..don’t take my word for it.take a women’s word.
There in lies the problem I think..

I don’t think you have much experience with women..or you’ve surrounded yourself with people/women/educators who have a skewed perception of common sexual behavior,thereby influencing your idealism’s and out of touch nature..

Simply put.. you don’t know women.

Yup.

First thing I pointed out was that he seemed like a child on this topic with no personal experience and someone who just reads about sex on the internet on too many SJW sites. Sad.

Your post above is a very reasonable one to him and all he can reply with is that 'you sound like rapist'. Everything is black and white with this kid and no grey. Everything should happen at the exact same time with the same interest level and any convincing of the other is basically abuse or rape.

The idea that in a relationship you will from time to time convince your partner or her you, to have sex when they might not have been in the mood prior would not even be controversial to anyone who has been in any relationships. But to him the idea is anathema.

 

[tonni]

You're the one who made the claim of universal morality. Not me.

I asked you where you got the info that it's somehow the wife's duty to please the husband, you cited a French court case. Did you think I meant "just in France" or?

 

[tonni]

For me with my ex wife, simply dancing with her was almost always a sure thing. It was easy foreplay. to you that probably all sounds horrible and abusive as you seem to believe everyone always needs to be in the same place from the onset or sex should never happen.

That's a dumb thing to think and not at all what my point was but okay. Keep making strawmen.

 

[MikeMcMann]

That's a dumb thing to think and not at all what my point was but okay. Keep making strawmen.

it certainly was what your point has been about.

This idea you guys put forth that this topic is 100% black and white and every 'no', 'not now' or other situation where the guy does things to convince his S.O of other is abusive ...and the initial 'no', 'not now' is all that matters period... BS.

As we've pointed out consistently there are all sorts of situations and all sorts of men and women and each one needs to be addressed differently based on the person. Some women want or need to be convinced all of the time, some only occasionally and some only after something like a child birth where she gains weight and does not feel sexy. And some don't need convincing at all as those women can be aggressive instigators of sex. Shock. life and situations are not black and white.

You guys suggesting these situations are black and white and that you can apply a one size fits all answer to every situation ('never try to convince or persuade') are the ridiculous ones.

 

[Metusalemi]

People who keep making this thing black/white need to watch this video. (timestamped and you only need to watch for 1 minute)



I certainly recommend everyone to watch the whole video also.

 

[MilesAbove]

No they have not.

Poor men.... we've been persecuted for so long! A whole bunch of days have gone by and we're still not given all the rights we need. If only someone would champion our cause!

 

[MikeMcMann]

And for the record here were my key points from the other thread and why I started this thread.

And also for the record tonni was attempting to do the same thing in the other thread by telling others what he says they really meant while ignoring what they said.

COnvincing is consent and that is what we are talking about.

My example to you was clear. he or she says 'they are not in the mood' and the other one gets them in the mood through persistence. You seem to not accept that it is ok to even try to change your partners mind without calling rapey. Odd.

I agree and started by wondering if its a generational thing where the younger people now think any sexual aggression is bad. Heck they think the word aggression alone is bad.

Aggression =/= forcing against ones will. it means imposing your desire and self upon someone and having them submit willing because they want to. Because they find that sexy as fuck to know their partner wants them that badly.

 

[MikeMcMann]

People who keep making this thing black/white need to watch this video. (timestamped and you only need to watch for 1 minute)



I certainly recommend everyone to watch the whole video also.

So accurate and apt and so true.

"It's a marker of lack of social ability"

"..you are an awkward neophyte and anyone with any sense should get the hell away from you..."

Wow direct shots directly at tonni and Kframe. Don't debate them, get the hell away from them.

 

[snakedafunky]

it certainly was what your point has been about.

This idea you guys put forth that this topic is 100% black and white and every 'no', 'not now' or other situation where the guy does things to convince his S.O of other is abusive ...and the initial 'no', 'not now' is all that matters period... BS.

As we've pointed out consistently there are all sorts of situations and all sorts of men and women and each one needs to be addressed differently based on the person. Some women want or need to be convinced all of the time, some only occasionally and some only after something like a child birth where she gains weight and does not feel sexy. And some don't need convincing at all as those women can be aggressive instigators of sex. Shock. life and situations are not black and white.

You guys suggesting these situations are black and white and that you can apply a one size fits all answer to every situation ('never try to convince or persuade') are the ridiculous ones.

I don't think you understand what people try to tell you. You are obviously worried about being accused of sexual harassment or rape because of your sexual approach.
Because you say that one girl likes it and the other doesn't. If a girl accuses you of sexual assault because you didn't stop when she said no. You are at fault.
Just because other women liked it that doesn't change the fact that the one women didn't.

I never had that concern with my sexual approach. I never worried about sexual harassment or catching a rape charge.
I might have missed out on a few girls, but my common sense told me that it's not worth being accused of sexual harassment or catching a rape charge.

That's what makes the issue black and white. The fact that some women liked it when you kept going. Doesn't make you any less guilty if there is one that didn't.

 

[MikeMcMann]

I don't think you understand what people try to tell you. You are obviously worried about being accused of sexual harassment or rape because of your sexual approach.
Because you say that one girl likes it and the other doesn't. If a girl accuses you of sexual assault because you didn't stop when she said no. You are at fault.
Just because other women liked it that doesn't change the fact that the one women didn't.

I never had that concern with my sexual approach. I never worried about sexual harassment or catching a rape charge.
I might have missed out on a few girls, but my common sense told me that it's not worth being accused of sexual harassment or catching a rape charge.

That's what makes the issue black and white. The fact that some women liked it when you kept going. Doesn't make you any less guilty if there is one that didn't.

You could be funny if you weren't so stupid.

I am not worried about any such thing. Dancing sexily with a woman and getting her to a yes or cooking her a meal and getting her to a yes are all the types of non verbal communications most normal people can navigate fine and never have an issue. I do not physically impose myself on anyone nor do I ever force anyone. Using persuasion is not force but I get that guys with zero game would think it might be.

There is no guilt if a woman does not like it with me as nothing then happens and that is what you don't understand in your black and white world.


But haha, man you do write some stupid shit.

 

[snakedafunky]

You could be funny if you weren't so stupid.

I am not worried about any such thing. Dancing sexily with a woman and getting her to a yes or cooking her a meal and getting her to a yes are all the types of non verbal communications most normal people can navigate fine and never have an issue. I do not physically impose myself on anyone nor do I ever force anyone. Using persuasion is not force but I get that guys with zero game would think it might be.

There is no guilt if a woman does not like it with me as nothing then happens and that is what you don't understand in your black and white world.


But haha, man you do write some stupid shit.

If you are not worried about those things why are posting about it all the time and makes topics about it?
Anyway like your first example. You start touching a girl she say's no. You try it again a woman might consider that sexual harassment or assault.
Just because the other 10 women before her liked it that way. Didn't make you any less guilty in regards to the one woman that doesnt like it.
The excuse it's a "sexual dance" or whatever won't change the fact. You are just making a gamble that the women doesn't see it that way.
But if she does it's your fault. I am not sure what is so difficult to understand on that.

 

[MikeMcMann]

If you are not worried about those things why are posting about it all the time and makes topics about it?
Anyway like your first example. You start touching a girl she say's no. You try it again a woman might consider that sexual harassment or assault.
Just because the other 10 women before her liked it that way. Didn't make you any less guilty in regards to the one woman that doesnt like it.
The excuse it's a "sexual dance" or whatever won't change the fact. You are just making a gamble that the women doesn't see it that way.
But if she does it's your fault. I am not sure what is so difficult to understand on that.

you struggling to understand why in this post Weinstein world these topics come up just shows how dumb you are. I did not create this thread but I did engage in the discussions here. SHOCK. To you that equals worry but to everyone else that is normal.

Did you watch the video above because you really need to as you are the poster child for it.

You seem to think that you just reach out and touch your S.O or partner with no non verbal signs or prior interaction. That seems to be because you are horribly inept with the opposite sex and assume others are just like you.

There is no question between the ladies i've been with and myself with regards to them doing anything they did not want or consent to. If my ex wife/gf/date said 'no I am sorry I had a shitty day and am not in the mood" and I can change that mood and convince her otherwise that is consensual. if I make her dinner, give her a massage, dance with her, kiss her after and she is ok with that and that changes her mind you call it horrid abuse, but to anyone else who is not a social misfit that is how the world works.

In this debate and listening to the video above I have come to the conclusion that there are social misfits who simply think all natural human dynamic is wrong. They can only see secual relationships in pure black and white terms despite the FACT that anyone with a brain will tell you that things are always grey as people are so different. The video stating it is pointless to try and convince people like you of anything and to 'run' was funny but sobering.

 

[snakedafunky]

you struggling to understand why in this post Weinstein world these topics come up just shows how dumb you are. I did not create this thread but I did engage in the discussions here. SHOCK. To you that equals worry but to everyone else that is normal.

Did you watch the video above because you really need to as you are the poster child for it.

You seem to think that you just reach out and touch your S.O or partner with no non verbal signs or prior interaction. That seems to be because you are horribly inept with the opposite sex and assume others are just like you.

There is no question between the ladies i've been with and myself with regards to them doing anything they did not want or consent to. If my ex wife/gf/date said 'no I am sorry I had a shitty day and am not in the mood" and I can change that mood and convince her otherwise that is consensual. if I make her dinner, give her a massage, dance with her, kiss her after and she is ok with that and that changes her mind you call it horrid abuse, but to anyone else who is not a social misfit that is how the world works.

In this debate and listening to the video above I have come to the conclusion that there are social misfits who simply think all natural human dynamic is wrong. They can only see secual relationships in pure black and white terms despite the FACT that anyone with a brain will tell you that things are always grey as people are so different. The video stating it is pointless to try and convince people like you of anything and to 'run' was funny but sobering.

No, I didn't watch the video.
Anyway, I never talked about a partner or wife. That would obviously be different, why even bring that up? Not sure how you call that in English but there some sort of "excepted intimacy."
But again going back to your first example when you said first time making out with a new girl.
You touch her ass or whatever thing you touch when making out she says no. You do it again its sexual assault or harassment.
You might just be doing something you have time 50 times before, and the girls didn't consider it wrong or sexual assault.
But if this one did she is on the right side (probably not on the common sense logical side but on the right side of the law). It's a very black and white issue. Touching someone inappropriately after they told you not to is a sexual harassment or aussault (not sure which one).

I mean if you don't understand that I am not sure how to make that any clearer.
Or are you American. Because it seems like you don't have common sense. And you don't seem to be on native English speaker level and quickly can only help yourself with insults.
That indicates typically you are American.
Because the US has successfully removed common sense from their society.
That's why you need all those stupid rules. Like the issue, you have with sexual harrasment at the moment.
People can't even figure out how to make out anymore. And of course, it is always the other person fault.
You blame the feminist etc. the feminist played straight white males etc.

 

[funcrusher2007]

Yup.

First thing I pointed out was that he seemed like a child on this topic with no personal experience and someone who just reads about sex on the internet on too many SJW sites. Sad.

Your post above is a very reasonable one to him and all he can reply with is that 'you sound like rapist'. Everything is black and white with this kid and no grey. Everything should happen at the exact same time with the same interest level and any convincing of the other is basically abuse or rape.

The idea that in a relationship you will from time to time convince your partner or her you, to have sex when they might not have been in the mood prior would not even be controversial to anyone who has been in any relationships. But to him the idea is anathema.

Yeah, you can lead a horse to water......

But seriously..that time stamped vid nailed it (pun intended) on a more intellectual level..bottom line.

These guys have no social skills..they lack the ability to read body language/verbal or physical cues and now with the advent of sjw/uber feminist talking points/agendas ...now have a convenient excuse for there short comings.

I picture them walking around hacky sack circles with a sexual engagement disclaimer form...seriously,that is what it will come to at the rate they’re going.....

as more men are indoctrinated with this way of thinking, the Sad reality is that the very definition of actual sexual harassment and rape will be diluted to the point in which the meaning will be washed out and in turn become meaningless..

Call enough human interaction rape and we have a society that will learn to just tune out...

Example: war coverage.. we’ve heard so much for the last ten years that we are desensitized to the point that we don’t even flinch when a report comes through about a soldier being killed.
Hell ..just look at the sexual harassment witch hunt going on now...men who are accused now aren’t even in the news cycle for more then a day..remember Silvester Stallone allegations? That shit was fucked up what him and his body guard did....but That’s my point,they’ve delegitimized and desensitized the definition.

@Kframe @snakedafunky you guys are directly responsible for the degradation of the terms and when actual rape/sexual Harassment victims are not paid attention to,you have your ideology and skewed/un realistic viewpoints to blame..your part of the problem.


As far as the rapist comment...lol.

I think my wife raped me last night..‘twas beautiful.

 

[snakedafunky]

Yeah, you can lead a horse to water......

But seriously..that time stamped vid nailed it (pun intended) on a more intellectual level..bottom line.

These guys have no social skills..they lack the ability to read body language/verbal or physical cues and now with the advent of sjw/uber feminist talking points/agendas ...now have a convenient excuse for there short comings.

I picture them walking around hacky sack circles with a sexual engagement disclaimer form...seriously,that is what it will come to at the rate they’re going.....

as more men are indoctrinated with this way of thinking, the Sad reality is that the very definition of actual sexual harassment and rape will be diluted to the point in which the meaning will be washed out and in turn become meaningless..

Call enough human interaction rape and we have a society that will learn to just tune out...

Example: war coverage.. we’ve heard so much for the last ten years that we are desensitized to the point that we don’t even flinch when a report comes through about a soldier being killed.
Hell ..just look at the sexual harassment witch hunt going on now...men who are accused now aren’t even in the news cycle for more then a day..remember Silvester Stallone allegations? That shit was fucked up what him and his body guard did....but That’s my point,they’ve delegitimized and desensitized the definition.

@Kframe @snakedafunky you guys are directly responsible for the degradation of the terms and when actual rape/sexual Harassment victims are not paid attention to,you have your ideology and skewed/un realistic viewpoints to blame..your part of the problem.


As far as the rapist comment...lol.

I think my wife raped me last night..‘twas beautiful.

Hhhmm ok so I am responsible for victims not paid attention to.
So if you are making out with a new girl the first time. You touch her she says no, you touch her inappropriate again how can that not be sexual assault or harrasment.
If the girl, in fact, didn't want to be touched and that's why she said no.
I mean if you just read her wrong and thought she was playing hard to get like the ten girls before her. Doesn't matter in this case.
You touched someone innaprobritley after they told you not to.

Just imagine the girl in this position would be your daughter for example. And she tells you some guy touched after she said not to.
Would you still think that is nothing?

I really don't understand why you guys don't get that.

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

No they haven't. When guys start acting like every woman they work with is married to Rex Kwon Do and they are scared of the ass whooping they will get for treating the women they work with like a bar slut, then things will be cool.

 

[funcrusher2007]

Hhhmm ok so I am responsible for victims not paid attention to.
So if you are making out with a new girl the first time. You touch her she says no, you touch her inappropriate again how can that not be sexual assault or harrasment.
If the girl, in fact, didn't want to be touched and that's why she said no.
I mean if you just read her wrong and thought she was playing hard to get like the ten girls before her. Doesn't matter in this case.
You touched someone innaprobritley after they told you not to.

Just imagine the girl in this position would be your daughter for example. And she tells you some guy touched after she said not to.
Would you still think that is nothing?

I really don't understand why you guys don't get that.

I agree with you In This scenario...what you wrote is logical when it’s a first time meet.... my posts are more relevant to a relationship that has past the meet and greet stage. More so specifically to the notion that any type of sexual aggression or coercion is somehow automatically sexual harassment.

If I ever were to have tried to make a move on a girl and she told me no.then yes,I’d back off. If I was dating or had built a relationship with her then ,I’d be more persistent because the relationship has matured and so has the sexual chemistry/connection,..basically I’d know what the girl wanted and didn’t want at different times. The dynamics of a relationship that has mileage vs. a relationship that is new, is entirely different and what me and others are trying to point out is that a black/white answer for the topic is completely ignorant.

 

[snakedafunky]

I agree with you In This scenario...what you wrote is logical when it’s a first time meet.... my posts are more relevant to a relationship that has past the meet and greet stage. More so specifically to the notion that any type of sexual aggression or coercion is somehow automatically sexual harassment.

If I ever were to have tried to make a move on a girl and she told me no.then yes,I’d back off. If I was dating or had built a relationship with her then ,I’d be more persistent because the relationship has matured and so has the sexual chemistry/connection,..basically I’d know what the girl wanted and didn’t want at different times. The dynamics of a relationship that has mileage vs. a relationship that is new, is entirely different and what me and others are trying to point out is that a black/white answer for the topic is completely ignorant.

Yeah, I never said anything about a relationship or marriage etc. Because that wouldn't make any sense.
But you are the second guy thinking that so maybe I have made some misleading statments?
I was reffering to the first example from @MikeMcMann where he talked about first time intimacy and that you have to be the agressor and push thru a no.

Now I understand that some women might have no problem with that. But you might have one that does. Now obviously that depends on the situation etc.
But if you are in general on the aggressive side. You can't complain if a women might actual ment it as a no, and you get in trouble.

 

[splendica]

People who keep making this thing black/white need to watch this video. (timestamped and you only need to watch for 1 minute)



I certainly recommend everyone to watch the whole video also.

That was awesome thanks. Bingo too.

 

[MikeMcMann]

No, I didn't watch the video.

Again you need to as they are describing you.

Anyway, I never talked about a partner or wife. That would obviously be different, why even bring that up?

It is not that different. Only your lack of relationship experience makes you think that way.

Not sure how you call that in English but there some sort of "excepted intimacy."
But again going back to your first example when you said first time making out with a new girl.
You touch her ass or whatever thing you touch when making out she says no. You do it again its sexual assault or harassment.
You might just be doing something you have time 50 times before, and the girls didn't consider it wrong or sexual assault.....

I'm going to stop you right there and demand you quote the posts of mine you are referring to with context as I am not going to deal with what we already established is your fantasy made up interpretation of others posts based on what you think they are saying or mean.

You come across as the most awkward and socially naive person on the planet who thinks you just walk up to a girl cold and put your hand on her ass and hope she does not object. And then push and either assault or not.

I can tell you I have never been anywhere near such a situation that you are now trying to attribute to me above. Ya I am not going to ask my gal 'can I now touch your butt' but there will already been prior physical contact by both of us and plenty of non verbal permission given.

To you those things may seem completely foreign and bad and you might think you need to ask 'so can I touch your bum now', and not I did that 'can I touch your boob'. But that is because you are laughably naive and dumb. Dude watch the video, as they completely explain exactly this situation and how people like you do not understand how things like this work.