Serving the Poor: The Christian Virtue of Charity

[Farmer Br0wn]

I don't think you would say this to a policeman, a judge or anyone with actual power.

Why wouldn't I? In our community, everyone knows everyone. The only public official that I see on a regular basis that I don't ever talk to is the County prosecutor for attempting to chargey brother as an adult for minor in possession of alcohol years ago.

I've had pleasant ideological exchanges in my community with everyone you've listed.

Nor have you ever disobeyed any of those authorties.

So what's the point of posting this comment online?

It highlights the violence and immorality that is at the very core of all current State action. When stated in the way that I did, it makes it impossible for the reader to ignore this immorality.

I see a lot of bitter comments like this but never any practical solutions.

The solution would be placing the Non-Aggression Principle (NAP) at the center of our personal and public lives.

The initiation of the use of force is always immoral. Being an agent of the state does not place a person or group in an opposite moral category.

The only time any sort of force is morally justified is in instances of self-defense. The very need to defend oneself, implies that someone else has initiated force.

 

[Pupi]

To see religion as the product of economic alienation is just wrong. Indefensible from a purely historic point of view.

Religious artifacts and postures have been found in neanderthal burial sites, for goodness say. Religion is far older than any formal economic system, capitalist, communist, or other.

Like it or not, religion is basic to humanity-- not some illusory "sham" tacked on to fool the rubes. If religion is the "heart of a heartless world," well then all the more need for it. It sounds like our only tenable response to our existential situation.

Religion, politics, and economics have gone hand in hand for millennia. Certain people had access to "truth" (religion) and those people were connected to power (government) and forms of exchanges of goods and services (economics). Sure, we live in a highly formal system today, but thats not to say that thousands of years ago people did not. There were taxes (to support governments and religious elite) and the means of exchanging goods and services (production of currencies, giving away land, tools, and animals for cultivation) was held by those who formed part of special groups. Needless to say, there have always been masters and slaves, no?

 

[mcveteran81]

You didn't answer any of my questions. You just included a prayer as a justification of your belief. Your religion was created by ordinary men and your Bible is a canonical work (based on the words of 4 thinkers) that formed part of a highly selective Roman propaganda process. Can you disprove that or no?

How in the world did I not answer you're questions?

You asked me what I believe about the Bible, I answered.

You asked me about men and religion, again I answered.

What's up with the false accusation? Its not my problem if you don't like my answers.

 

[Teppodama]

Yeah, these people kind of suck. What does the Gates Foudnation actually do other than serve as a tax doge?

I'm sure the foundation does many good works but it also offers benefits to the Gates that they make use of. All I'm saying is there are few truly altruistic acts among the wealthy and powerful. .

 

[Grenz]

Today's Gospel reading in the story of the conversion of the rich tax collector Zacchaeus.

Zacchaeus said to Jesus:
"Behold, half of my possessions, Lord, I shall give to the poor,
and if I have extorted anything from anyone
I shall repay it four times over."
And Jesus said to him,
"Today salvation has come to this house."
Luke 19:8-10

A report by a leading antipoverty organization claims that the eight (just eight) wealthiest people in the world have more money than 50 percent of the world's population (reported by OXFAM International on January 16, 2017). That's a breathtaking statistic. What if those wealthy men and women gave just half of those billions to the poor as did Zacchaeus? My guess is that it would make a huge dent in world poverty.

 

[Pupi]

How in the world did I not answer you're questions?

You asked me what I believe about the Bible, I answered.

You asked me about men and religion, again I answered.

What's up with the false accusation? Its not my problem if you don't like my answers.

You're still not talking about the origins and development of Christianity and why those developments occurred if it was the unadulterated Word of God. What's true Christianity in your perspective? Jehovahs Witnesses?

 

[Thycidides]

Why wouldn't I? In our community, everyone knows everyone. The only public official that I see on a regular basis that I don't ever talk to is the County prosecutor for attempting to chargey brother as an adult for minor in possession of alcohol years ago.

I've had pleasant ideological exchanges in my community with everyone you've listed.





It highlights the violence and immorality that is at the very core of all current State action. When stated in the way that I did, it makes it impossible for the reader to ignore this immorality.


The solution would be placing the Non-Aggression Principle (NAP) at the center of our personal and public lives.

The initiation of the use of force is always immoral. Being an agent of the state does not place a person or group in an opposite moral category.

The only time any sort of force is morally justified is in instances of self-defense. The very need to defend oneself, implies that someone else has initiated force.

I dunno why you are complaining about being extorted and oppressed if you get along with the state authorities in your small town. Sounds like they are good people and delivering public goods. Sounds like the social contract is working for you.

Maybe you are unhappy with how militarized the USA is and the existence of NATO etc. But International law already incorporates the principle of non aggression between states.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

I dunno why you are complaining about being extorted and oppressed if you get along with the state authorities in your small town. Sounds like they are good people and delivering public goods. Sounds like the social contract is working for you.

You do understand that there's more than just the state authorities in my small town that I'm forced to associate with, correct?

Having pleasant interactions in no way changes the inherit force and extortion that's at the very core of our forced association.

Social contract theory is also a violation of freedom of association. The freedom to associate also entails the freedom to disassociate.

Maybe you are unhappy with how militarized the USA is and the existence of NATO etc. But International law already incorporates the principle of non aggression between states.

Fantastic!

Now we just need to apply that same principle between the state and its citizens, and will be closer to a moral system without coercion.

 

[Greoric]

It's not easily disproven. Also, posting videos like that is something @Devout Pessimist would do. Really poor form in a debate. Embarrassing, actually.


The Social Contract is the basis of our entire modern, functioning society. Taxes aren't theft, and anyone who thinks that they are, is an ideologically blinded simpleton.

@Greoric

LOL. Good show. I abdicate.

I'll just add that despite what Rousseau likes to say, a social contract, just like eleemosynary activity, or defense, or roads, or [insert crisis ratified program] aren't commensurate with having a compulsory funded monopoly provide them.

 

[splendica]

In all seriousness though, I know people with almost nothing and they feel and act well off. I know others who live lavishly and feel and act like they're poor.

Really, poverty is quite mental and spiritual.

 

[Greoric]

If the money has to be taken by force, that it's no longer a charitable, or moral act.

Charity must be a chosen behavior, otherwise it's no longer charity.

What a world we'd live in when people stop conflating the two...

 

[Thycidides]

You do understand that there's more than just the state authorities in my small town that I'm forced to associate with, correct?

Having pleasant interactions in no way changes the inherit force and extortion that's at the very core of our forced association.

Social contract theory is also a violation of freedom of association. The freedom to associate also entails the freedom to disassociate.

No, I'm not sure what your problem is. But I don't think you have a solution to it either. In any case it sounds like you are following the social contract. You could break if you really wanted to theoretically at least. Thomas Jefferson says so, he came up with the one we have now here in USA.

This conversation is really depressing.

 

[Greoric]

Then why don't you do something about it? Propose a solution.

His solution is getting rid of compulsion as a way of solving society's problems (If I may be so audacious as to speak or him).

 

[mcveteran81]

You're still not talking about the origins and development of Christianity and why those developments occurred if it was the unadulterated Word of God. What's true Christianity in your perspective? Jehovahs Witnesses?

Origins, that simple;

Genesis 1: 1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

The entirety of Christianity is based on the Bible, not the Bible based on the various denominations or religious sects of Christianity and how they perceive it. This is where you are commenting in error.

I'm under the belief of let the Bible interpret the Bible, not adhering to what I think the Bible is really saying is this. The Bible is self satisfactory in answering all questions, unfortunately corruptible man doesn't always like the answers he's given (regardless if he/she is saved)

In regards to addressing the Bible's authenticity let's see what the Bible has to say about that.

2 Timothy 3: 16
All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness.

Your complaint isn't against myself. As I've mentioned earlier, you don't like the institutions of religion. I agreed with you on that point. Now I've addressed origins not out of my own wisdom, but letting scripture tell you what those answers are. I hope I have answered you're question.

 

[Thycidides]

His solution is getting rid of compulsion as a way of solving society's problems (If I may be so audacious as to speak or him).

Good luck enforcing property rights with that plan.

 

[Greoric]

No, I'm not sure what your problem is. But I don't think you have a solution to it either. In any case it sounds like you are following the social contract. You could break if you really wanted to theoretically at least. Thomas Jefferson says so, he came up with the one we have now here in USA.

This conversation is really depressing.

Right, Jefferson and the rest of the framers came up with arguably the best air tight piece of law to restrain government power that we know of, yet look at where we are now. If two more buildings come down, you can kiss any pretense of rights the government still pretends to uphold good bye.

We started with the smallest government in world history, and now we have the biggest government in world history.

 

[Greoric]

Good luck enforcing property rights with that plan.

Is that something people generally want?

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

i think the difference between liquid and illiquid assets skews the reality of the situation.

if mark zuckerberg gave his facebook shares to the poorest half and they sold on the open market at the same time (given they even have telecommunication and electricity) the value of the shares would plummet. and then the statistic of the top 8 being wealthier would no longer hold true given that the wealth was actually exercised.

Sorry, what makes you think that? You don't think there'd be a lot of investors out there wanting to get facebook shares if there was a known big dumping, thus supporting the share price?

 

[dontsnitch]

You're still not talking about the origins and development of Christianity and why those developments occurred if it was the unadulterated Word of God. What's true Christianity in your perspective? Jehovahs Witnesses?

Christianity is faith in Christ as Lord and Savior.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

But none of what you posted applies to Christ. When he sent His apostles out to minister He told them not to pack or prepare a single thing, save the clothes on their back.

Luke 9; 2-4
And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece. And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.

What you just described is Catholicism, not Christianity. Make no mistake, the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon.

I think the important thing a lot of people miss about the teachings of Jesus and Paul is the focus on self-restraint, self-discipline, self-sacrifice, self-responsibility and love of others (agape). All people are expected to live a life of discipline, sacrifice and love to the best of their ability regardless of their wealth, physical ability, social status and sex.



The Widow’s Offering
41 Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. 42 But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents.

43 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44 They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.”
Mark 12:41-44
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12:41-44

Saint Paul:

For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone’s bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you (2 Thess. 3:7–8).
https://www.bible-bridge.com/pauls-income-four-reasons-why-paul-worked-day-job/