Movies Serious Movie Discussion

[Rimbaud82]

I haven't actually seen Absolution, so I can't really comment on it. But you introduce Richard Burton by mentioning a mediocre borefesh like In From the Cold? C'mon, bruh. At least name-drop Virginia Wolf instead!

lol that was a quote from the blurb! Don't blame me haha

 

[Sigh GunRanger]

Hey, @Sigh GunRanger, I forgot to mention: I ended up catching Mission Impossible: Fallout in theaters a couple of weeks ago. I missed its IMAX run but I still got to see it on the big screen (first MI film I've seen in theaters). It was awesome, as they've all been since the third one, but, even though it was too awesome to justify calling it the "worst" of the latest batch, I do have to say that I think it's the "least awesome" of this latest awesome batch.

First off, Henry Cavill is just a bland vanilla nothing, so he sucked in his capacity. I also didn't like Angela Bassett, her relationship with Cavill, or the way any of their shit was integrated into the plot. It seemed both hackneyed, in that I could see the curves of that narrative road from miles off, and clunky, in that the obvious crap was carried off poorly. And then, in a more nebulous vein, I just didn't feel any of those extra adrenaline spikes that I've become accustomed to when I watch MI movies. None of the set-pieces had me on the edge of my seat or pumping my fist or anything. It was a top-of-the-line action movie for sure but it wasn't a top-of-the-line MI movie, if that makes sense.

What did you think of it?

I loved it way more than any of the sequels. It had less CGI than the last few and its double crossy plot was more fun than the convoluted plots the recent ones had. Easily the 2nd best after the first.

I loved Cavill; funny, and genuinely tough looking.


As far as the action, I thought the the chases through Paris were excellent. Im a sucker for pure car sounds during a chase, and this was as good as it got. The chase where she's trying to kill the guy in Ethan's car is one of my favorite chases ever.



Have you seen Capricorn One?

 

[KOQ24]

I was finally able to watch Seconds.

The Ending was really great incl. Roch Hudson's acting.
Seems like Howe/Frankenheimer took a lot of Cinematography and editing choices from the French New Wave + adding their own spin.

My only criticism is that the Nudist/wine stomping scene is too long.
Makes a good pairing with "Total Recall"

 

[Rimbaud82]

The Great Silence (1968)

Outstanding revisionist Western. I saw the original Italian version with English subs. As with other westerns of the same style the film is much grittier, much bleaker and morally ambiguous when compared with conventional John Wayne style films, or even early Eastwood. The plot concerns a mute gunslinger (Silence, he is named by other characters) and his arrival in a small Utah town during a freezing cold winter. He becomes embroiled in a local battle between some innocent outlaws hiding in the hills (while waiting for a pardon) and bloodthirsty bounty-hunters led by Klaus Kinski's character. I won't spoil anything by going in to specifics, but this is a very uncompromising film. Of course it still makes use of some Western tropes (the entire genre is built on tropes and myths), but it also subverts a number of those themes; it is is critical of the violence of the old West. A cycle which is perpetuated by the bounty hunters in the film, their greed and bloodlust disguised by the charade of the law....or as Kinski's character often parrots - "All according to the law". The character of Silence was interesting too, he's a man who is clearly wronged and out for vengeance and somewhat fits the strong, silent archetype, but the fact that he is literally mute and not simply quiet and moody by choice (like Eastwood) is interesting I thought. For instance, he cannot make clever quips to the bad guys when the time arises.....

Visually it looked outstanding too, extremely dramatic setting with the snowy backdrops.

Definitely recommend it, can certainly see where the film influenced Tarantino's The Hateful Height (which I hated, actually, but there is a really clear line of influence there), as well as certain aspects of the The Revenant.

 

[europe1]

Outstanding revisionist Western.

Walking into the SMD and seeing this.

One of my absolute favourite Westerns.

Damit Rimbaud82 I was going to go to bed! Now you're forcing me to reply to this!

I won't spoil anything by going in to specifics, but this is a very uncompromising film

It's such an uncompromising film that Corbucci was forced to shot alternative scenes for specific regions! The ending? Let's just say there are alternatives.

Also, a Western film from 1968 staring a black-white couple? That's unusual, to say the least.

Of course it still makes use of some Western tropes (the entire genre is built on tropes and myths), but it also subverts a number of those themes; it is is critical of the violence of the old West. A cycle which is perpetuated by the bounty hunters in the film, their greed and bloodlust disguised by the charade of the law....or as Kinski's character often parrots - "All according to the law".

When it comes to Westerns, one could say that Sergio Leone was an iconophile at heart while Sergio Corbucci's heart was that of an iconoclast. Leone wanted to elevate and exalt the tropes, Corbucci wanted to break and invert them (and I'm not just talking about filming in the snow!).

In Leone's Westerns (like most American ones) bounty hunting is this rugged and heroic profession where you killed off the bad guys for huge sums of cash. The Great Silence takes a much more sociological approach to this. That kind of profession is ripe for corruption and exploitation, with all the murder and money changing hands. Instead of being about good guys cleaning up the West -- it's a crooked tool for the powerful to further exploit the weak, who are driven to illegality due to their destitute position, and giving psychopath killers a legal way to ply their trade in the interests of said powers. It really is a damming inversion of how bounty hunting and banditry is usually seen in Westerns. Really an iconoclast angle to the myth and the trope.

Anthony Mann's The Naked Spur is another great movie about bounty hunting, taking on a more psychological approach, examining how morally degrading it is to hunt other humans for cash.

The character of Silence was interesting too, he's a man who is clearly wronged and out for vengeance and somewhat fits the strong, silent archetype, but the fact that he is literally mute and not simply quiet and moody by choice (like Eastwood) is interesting I thought. For instance, he cannot make clever quips to the bad guys when the time arises.....

I think it gives him more an edge of being vulnerable and damaged. He's mute because people slit his throat as a kid. It's a constant trauma that he carries around with him. It gives his love-scenes with the female protagonist a more emotional bent, connecting through shared loss and all that.

Visually it looked outstanding too, extremely dramatic setting with the snowy backdrops.

Don't forget that Morricone score!

 

[Rimbaud82]

Also, a Western film from 1968 staring a black-white couple? That's unusual, to say the least.

Yeah good point, never actually crossed my mind when watching the film but certainly ahead of it's time.

When it comes to Westerns, one could say that Sergio Leone was an iconophile at heart while Sergio Corbucci's heart was that of an iconoclast. Leone wanted to elevate and exalt the tropes, Corbucci wanted to break and invert them (and I'm not just talking about filming in the snow!).

In Leone's Westerns (like most American ones) bounty hunting is this rugged and heroic profession where you killed off the bad guys for huge sums of cash. The Great Silence takes a much more sociological approach to this. That kind of profession is ripe for corruption and exploitation, with all the murder and money changing hands. Instead of being about good guys cleaning up the West -- it's a crooked tool for the powerful to further exploit the weak, who are driven to illegality due to their destitute position, and giving psychopath killers a legal way to ply their trade in the interests of said powers. It really is a damming inversion of how bounty hunting and banditry is usually seen in Westerns. Really an iconoclast angle to the myth and the trope.

Well put, it's certainly a subversion of the typical idea of the bounty-hunter. Although Kinski's portrayal is a tad campy at times, it is a much more realistic portrayal of the sort of people - ie. pyschopaths - who would probably be attracted to such a profession were murder is effectively legal. In all likelihood there never was such a profession in the real West, there were bounties but it did not operate the same with independent individuals making a living by collecting bounties, but the Western as a genre obviously operates on a different level than the real history and it's within that framework that the film is also working. It is critiquing the mythology of the Western. If there was a profession of bounty hunters, I'd say it'd be more like Corbucci's....

Anthony Mann's The Naked Spur is another great movie about bounty hunting, taking on a more psychological approach, examining how morally degrading it is to hunt other humans for cash.

I will add it to the list, got a few Westerns lined up. Red Dead Redemption 2 coming out has put me in the mood lol.

I think it gives him more an edge of being vulnerable and damaged. He's mute because people slit his throat as a kid. It's a constant trauma that he carries around with him. It gives his love-scenes with the female protagonist a more emotional bent, connecting through shared loss and all that.

Good point, definitely agree with you there. We are in complete agreement on this one, it's a great film

Don't forget that Morricone score!

Yeah it was awesome too!

 

[BisexualMMA]

Have you seen Capricorn One?

The space movie from the 70s with OJ Simpson?

You didn't ask me, but I had pretty high hopes for it and was mostly disappointed. What were your thoughts?

 

[KOQ24]

The Great Silence is indeed TITS.

Watch Companeros. Jack Palance is overacting the shit out of it.

 

[Yotsuya]

For me Corbucci is the greatest Italian western director. I love the ballad like groove of his story telling way more that the epic style of Leone. His movies always have so much heart. Companeros and Great Silence are the only two spaghetti western masterpieces for me. I love the good guys and loath the bad guys in both. Still, I’d say (mythical) west needed rule of the law. If a bunch of somewhat functional sociopaths or individuals with straight forward sense of morality could deliver it, it was better that no rule of law at all or just some idealized notion of it.

(Man Who Shot Liberty Walance made a good case too.)

I still love the story of a butt-hurt horse thief in Missouri Breaks though. Bounty hunters just make awesome bad guys.

 

[europe1]

In all likelihood there never was such a profession in the real West, there were bounties but it did not operate the same with independent individuals making a living by collecting bounties, but the Western as a genre obviously operates on a different level than the real history and it's within that framework that the film is also working. It is critiquing the mythology of the Western. If there was a profession of bounty hunters, I'd say it'd be more like Corbucci's....

Despite my uber-nerd levels of interest in History, "The West" as a time and place has never been a something I've looked into, outside the odd Indian War. But yeah, that sort of bounty hunting we see in Westerns probably never had any historical precedence. It's more of a critique of the ideological preconception of it. The notion that these sort of people is what is needed to "clean up" a place.

Jack Palance is overacting the shit out of it.

Post-Shane, Jack Palance seemed to love overacting the shit out of everything. Got to love him for it though.

I love the ballad like groove of his story telling

That's a good way to characterize it.

For me Corbucci is the greatest Italian western director.

I love Django, Great Silence, Companeros so much that I almost want to agree with this (and Navajo Joe, Hellbenders and Johnny Oro are very good too) -- but I still got to go with Leone.

That said, Corbucci gets -1000 Director-Points for making The White, The Yellow, and The Black. Possibly the worst Western-Comedy of all time (despite staring Giuliano Gemma, Tomas Milian, and Eli Wallach)

Companeros and Great Silence are the only two spaghetti western masterpieces for me

No love for Django, eh? We did it on the SMC.

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/sherdog-movie-club-week-105-django.3760985/

What the hell is this? With the black outfit and flowing white hair, he looks like some sort of 70's Anime character!

This is the weirdest Western-Thing I've seen since Lemonade Joe.

 

[Yotsuya]

I love Django, Great Silence, Companeros so much that I almost want to agree with this (and Navajo Joe, Hellbenders and Johnny Oro are very good too) -- but I still got to go with Leone.

Great Silence is his only solid movie, but I just love Corbucci’s stories, characters and sense of humor more than Leone’s. Companeros, The Mercenary, The Specialist and Sonny & Jed are all flawed but special for me.

No love for Django, eh? We did it on the SMC.

I like Django a lot.

What the hell is this? With the black outfit and flowing white hair, he looks like some sort of 70's Anime character!

That’s what happens, when you give 70 years old John Huston a John Milius script.

That said, Corbucci gets -1000 Director-Points for making The White, The Yellow, and The Black. Possibly the worst Western-Comedy of all time (despite staring Giuliano Gemma, Tomas Milian, and Eli Wallach)

The worst?? Come on... At least it’s not boring like most spaghetti western comedies.

 

[RockstarChris]

The Hateful 8.

Watched it with my dad and brother. We laughed.

 

[Rimbaud82]

Last night I got round to

Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid (1973)

Loved Bob's soundtrack for a long time and finally got round to watching the film itself. I thought it was pretty good, but not spectacular. Have never seen any other Billy the Kid films (of which there are many), so I imagine that would have been significant for audiences when this was released (that it's another Billy the Kid film). For the most part, this seemed to stick close to the myth of Billy the Kid as a symbol of the freedom of the Old West (despite the fact that he does shoot people in the back). Although of course, there is a lot of violence too, which alludes to the harsh reality. With this in mind the film seems to have a very melancholic tone (helped by Bob's incredible soundtrack), it's almost as if Garrett (who just wants to settle down with the changing times) isn't just hunting 'the Kid', but hunting the myth of the West itself. It's almost elegiac, for a film whose plot essentially boils down to a 'chase' film it is actual quite slow moving and deliberate. Not a perfect film by any means, but I enjoyed it a lot for sure. I also liked Bob's awkward acting as the character Alias lol.

 

[Bullitt68]

Last night I got round to

Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid (1973)

Never been a big fan of that. Peckinpah is pretty hit or miss with me. Have you seen much of his stuff?

 

[Rimbaud82]

Never been a big fan of that. Peckinpah is pretty hit or miss with me. Have you seen much of his stuff?

First I've seen actually, been meaning to watch Bring Me The Head of Alfredo Garcia as well for a while now. How do you rate that?

 

[europe1]

Last night I got round to

See Rimbaud, this is what happens when you watch Westerns, people respond!

Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid (1973)

Easy there, cowboy. Which version?

Loved Bob's soundtrack

Barely knowing who Dylan was when I first watched it, I asked the same question.

(I still barely know who Dylan is, btw).

I thought it was pretty good, but not spectacular.

To me, Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid (1973) feels like one of those movies that should be spectacular but instead just ends up being pretty, very, really good. It has spectacular moments of etherial, emotional resonance, no doubt. Like...

Or when Pat Garrett's murder at the beginning of the movie is intercut with Billy shooting the head off the chickens (which was cut depending on which version you watched).

Or the ending, when the Mexican kid throws a rock at Garrett's horse and walks off in disgust, cue freeze-frame.
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However, all these brilliant moments have no connective tissue. The movie just meanders in a strange, purposeless way. It's like a theme without a story, but the lack of story really leaves you unfulfilled and frustrated.

Have never seen any other Billy the Kid films (of which there are many),

Crap... which are the good ones?

The Left-Handed Gun with Paul Newman is good, Newman playing Kid more like an impulse-driven... well, kid, who doesn't fully understand what he's doing. Then there is the Robert Taylor version from 1941 simply called Billy the Kid where Taylor plays Kid in more of a Shane-esque way, internal pain and longing and such. Then there is Billy the Kid vs Dracula but... I probably shouldn't have mentioned that one in the first place.

That's the only good ones I can think of to recommend. Unless you're into Young Guns and that shabang.

this seemed to stick close to the myth of Billy the Kid as a symbol of the freedom of the Old West

I think there is this point pushed that Billy is the last young hope for the mythic West to continue.

Most people that die in the film are rather aged. Peckinpah always had this theme of "the death of the West". The people are like dinosaurs, their way of life disappearing due to socio-economical developments that they are not even cognizant of. Garrett is the only one who gets this, trying to settle down with a wife and everything, turning turncoat when he is forced to hunt Billy down. During the raid on the river-straddling cottage, one of the enemy gunmen tell Garret that "Us good-old-boys shouldn't be killing each other off like this". Which is basically what the movie is about, aged gunmen killing each other off for good as civilization moves in (and as the protologue shows, not even Garrett escapes this).

Garrett hates himself in the ending, having killed Billy and thus ended the old West. His journey has elucidated to himself how nastily attached he feels to this place and time (with him visiting the whores despite being married). It may have been callous, rugged and violent, but these characters inhabited it, it was their home. Change is inevitable, as Garrett knew, but that doesn't lessen the impact off it. So I think it's very fitting that the kid threw a rock after Garrett's horse just as the film ended, him having destroyed their myth for good.

Although of course, there is a lot of violence too, which alludes to the harsh reality

Mostly I remember when Billy kills that old guy in front of his family during a duel. Not even his children react to it. They've become so callous living in this land that not even the death of their father drives out emotion in them.

 

[Bullitt68]

First I've seen actually, been meaning to watch Bring Me The Head of Alfredo Garcia as well for a while now. How do you rate that?

That one strikes me as more of a @europe1 pick. Peckinpah's such a wild man that none of his movies are bad/not worth watching, but not all of them are great. For me, I'm all about Straw Dogs and The Getaway. Those are seriously great films and Straw Dogs is a legit masterpiece. That's the one I'd recommend you go for next.

 

[GSP_37]

I would always ignore movies on basic cable assuming they were always censored and edited, but I read recently FX, SYFY, USA, AMC are allowing the F word and some nudity. Is that true?

I know IFC, FLIX, MGM, and sometimes Sundance would show uncut movies.

 

[Yotsuya]

Crap... which are the good ones?

I liked Dirty Little Billy with Michael J. Pollard. Nicely rugged and playful early 70's revisionist western. 3.5/5

 

[Yotsuya]

I just found out earlier this week, that Bret Easton Ellis has started doing movie podcasts again! He can get a bit repetitious when talking about 70's or bitching about current state of cinema and tv, but when he's ranting on specifics, he's usually just spot on and a pleasure to listen. I watched Phantom Thread yesterday based on his recommendation and fully agree, that it's the best movie Anderson has made since Magnolia.