Serious Movie Discussion | Page 3

Discussion in 'Mayberry Lounge' started by Bullitt68, Dec 21, 2017.

  1. moreorless87 Gold Belt

    moreorless87
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    Honestly yeah I think this is a very significant factor, I mean I think Lucas's prequels are very flawed films but the culture that grew up around hating them was in some ways almost as big as the culture that grew up around enjoying the originals. These sequels feel more like there addressing that culture than they are love of the originals to me, just look at someone like Chris Stuckman's dislike of Rogue One because it didn't conform to his simplistic view of what makes a good blockbuster obtained from fish in a barrel criticism of the prequels.

    On a non Starwars subject finally got around to watching an Ida DVD I'v had knocking around, perhaps not the most revolutionary film ever made being a very straight sombre drama about the aftermath of the holocaust to the point of almost cliche but really elevated by the visuals. Not just being monochrome but having a 4:3 aspect ratio did give it the feel like a series of very well composed/light photographs and its more that atmosphere that drives the film for me.

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. JSN #NotMyNelly

    JSN
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    my thing is the originals were flawed films as well. They are fun as well and all that, but they aren't Citizen Kane. They're not even Indiana Jones.
     
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  3. moreorless87 Gold Belt

    moreorless87
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    I think Empire Strikes Back is up there with the best blockbusters ever made personally but ironically a lot of what made that film good was actively looked down on with Rogue One last there by people pushing Stuckman style "blockbuster 101" cinema as the be all and end all. That whole Youtube culture to me is just aiming at the lowest common denominator, basically telling people how smart they are for there existing tastes rather than looking to inform because this gets maximum views.

    Honestly to me JJ Abrams is an absolute nothing as a creative director, no deeper than someone like Bret Ratner and should never have been allowed near Starwars, I remember suddenly having my hopes raised when the buyout of Lucasfilm was announced then having them go though the floor just as quickly when I heard he was directing/writing. His legacy is I think down to a great deal of the problems in The Last Jedi as well, thoughly pissed in the well of the sequel trilogy.
     
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  4. JSN #NotMyNelly

    JSN
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    yup agreed. I remember people saying he was going to save Star Wars and thinking, "really? What has he done that's even half as good as the worst Lucas Star Wars movie?"
     
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  5. moreorless87 Gold Belt

    moreorless87
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    I mean he's not totally untalented of course but his blockbusters are just so cynical and lacking in ambition, they feel like there written by a box office calculating algorithm not a human. I resent the comparison people make to people likes of Lucas, Spielberg or Zemeksis, yeah they made crowd pleasing films but they have a hell of a lot more imagination and risk taking than he's shown recently.

    I'll say again Youtube is full of utter frauds who know absolutely nothing about cinema, they only exist to tell people how great there very unambitious taste is. That's not elietism pushing art-house cinema over blockbuster cinema but simply cinema that has some ambition to it as the original Starwars films did.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. chickenluver Bookmobile Driver

    chickenluver
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    How do I read the prior SMD threads? Are they archived?
     
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  7. Caveat Mozart in a Go-Kart

    Caveat
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    I'm sad to say that Three Billboards didn't really resonate with me the way I hoped it would.

    The main character's self-righteousness is just too hollow, and gives her too much leeway to be a c**t to everyone else while expecting the audience to find that charming.

    There's something to be said about chaos perpetuating itself, but there's too much moral confusion in the film to land on a statement about how to react to that chaos. Maybe it could still be fun without that statement, but it's too serious to rely on fun. Even the spotty humour is too bizzarely timed to save it.

    It's cute at times and could have made more of itself if it wasn't trying so hard to be weird. No In Bruges.
     
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  8. Count Zero Cosme Fulanito belt

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    Flipping through and saw Interstellar's on. Never saw it so I left it on.

    This is pretty damn good !
     
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  9. moreorless87 Gold Belt

    moreorless87
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    I would say exactly the reverse, its writing like having the main chaarcters self righteousness be partly a cover for her own guilt that makes it a far superior film to typical Hollywood dramas on this kind of subject.

    Honestly I think the style is a logical progression, if you consider that Seven Psychopaths played up the meta comedy side of In Bruges more heavily then it makes sense to then go the other direction and play up the drama side instead. Beyond Frances McDormand's presense I think its very Coenish indeed without coming up short in comparison at all for me.

    In the running with Killing of a Sacred Deer for the best 2017 film I'v seen so far.
     
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  10. KOQ24 Silver Belt

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    I've recently seen Brawl in Cell Block 99 by the Director of Bone Tomahawk.
    The trailer might suggest a straight-up prison Drama , but this is more of a throwback to Pulp/Exploitation with some Horror-Thriller Elements.
    This might be the first movie i've seen that shows how physically big Vince Vaughn is in person.He's really carrying the Film and Don Johnson is chewing up scenery once he shows up.
    Jennifer Carpenter is dull, but fortunately has limited screentime.
    It's a really nasty movie with a really interesting performance by Vaughn.
    I also loved the throwback Soul soundtrack.


    I also saw Dunkirk.
    Not exactly among Nolan's finest, but a worthy Film by his.
    I had Problems with the constant switch between basically faceless main characters.
    And the story structure didn't exactly win me over either.
    On the other Hand i loved the Atmosphere.Nolan is capturing the Situation of an encircled Army well.
    The Aerial Dogfights and the german Attacks feel realistic.
    I still think the PG-13, almost bloodless war scenes are a mistake (capturing war isn't suited for bloodless battles).
    Cinematography (as expected) and the score are also fantastic.
     
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  11. Caveat Mozart in a Go-Kart

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    I think you can write that and have genuine self-righteousness instead of just acting out. Her little speech to the priest was so dull and the audience I watched with seemed not to pick up on the obvious deflection because they'd bought into her schtick so much.

    I have seen Seven Psychopaths but remember nothing about it. Maybe I'll revisit and look out for the pattern you've mentioned.
     
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  12. moreorless87 Gold Belt

    moreorless87
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    Well there is some degree of genuine self righteousness there but again writing a character who is saint like in this kind of situation is to me something that that's playing to the audience expectations rather too easily and has been done so many times before as a result.

    The film does obviously exist in a somewhat heightened reality(albeit much less so than Seven Pyschopaths) but I think the character does have a makeup that feels real rather than a preaching cardboard cut out we often get. I'm guessing that a lot of parents driven to similar kinds of action on a childs death are doing so partly due to a sense of guilt even if the majority of them as here aren't really culpable for the death.

    Just on a dramatic level as well having someone portrayed as smart, witty and confident(as well as insensitive of course) rather than soley a victim to be pited makes things much more effective.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018 at 11:03 AM
  13. Caveat Mozart in a Go-Kart

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    I can agree with most of that. To be fair I might have been extra critical just because I was dying of teh sickness in the audience.

    Definitely one I want to ponder more about.
     
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  14. Rimbaud82 Brown Belt

    Rimbaud82
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    About to go to see Rey (2017) by Niles Attallah...gets middling reviews, as well as some good ones, but sounds interesting enough to go and see. Hews pretty close to a Herzog-ian vibe apparently, though the experimental elements have been compared with Jodorowsky. But it's only £4 a ticket at my local arthouse cinema with student discount so may as well.


    [​IMG]

    In the nineteenth century, a French adventurer sets off to establish a kingdom in the inhospitable South of Chile, uniting the feared Mapuche under him. The response of the Chilean army is devastating. Rey is both an intricately designed adventure film as well as powerful textural experiment.

    I see it's on Mubi, but always prefer going to the cinema.
     
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  15. Ricky13 You are who you choose to be.

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    Yeah I came away feeling similarly.

    It's a writing issue; surprising coming from McDonagh (quite the playwright). He lends the character turns no context. They exist to serve the idea that chaos begets (*cough*) chaos. There is no reason for the viewer to accept the suicide, Dixon's ill-conceived redemption, or any major dramatic reversal.

    These events occur because chaos is bad, or cyclical, or because we shouldn't give in to immense guilt, or something. I think I agree with the film's motives, but not how it gets there. In fact, I don't even think it tries to on the page. It relies on the gravity of the switcheroo to make the point.

    Trying to figure out why, but there's a disconnect between the dialogue/action and intent of scene that I can't articulate but it's on the tip of my tongue. Out of practice.

    A small example is how Dixon hits the girl after he throws Red off the roof. She's the sort of script collateral that bothers me. His redemptive arc - the intent of the scene being "this is an awful act that he will learn from" - features no actual acknowledgment of the people left in his first avatar's wake. It's sparked by a letter first. (Red is kind to him, but the girl is never brought up again.)

    It's a fine sentiment. But the film never does the work to earn the message. It's why, as @Caveat pointed out, it comes across as morally confused. The priest may have been the wrong messenger; hell, he may have come bearing the wrong message. But her "look over there" argument only means she's an asshole, not that she feels guilty or self-righteous. The film, however, plays her as the victor in that set-piece.

    If the audience doesn't palpably perceive the guilt through character work as opposed to a flippant anecdote (the reveal that the daughter wanted to live with dad) or flashback (damn that was weak), they're unlikely to absorb the more sophisticated point: that their redemption/self-righteousness is coming from the wrong place, and that that kind of thing only makes shit worse.

    The Coens fuck around with tone a lot - dramatic, campy, ironic - but they would never risk an audience not knowing where a character is coming from.
     
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  16. moreorless87 Gold Belt

    moreorless87
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    Well you mention scenes in which her motivation was clearly highlighted and I disagree that those scenes are "weak". Specifically I think the flashback clearly plays on the link between her witty putdowns previously and the different motivation were now seeing by having the exchange with the daughter take the same form. The end result is really the opposite of the all too common obsession with "scoring a point" with wit as a sign you've totally won an argument.

    That a character or scene must have a single clear motivation or outcome to it seems rather simplistic thinking to me, its possible for her character to have some reason to feel aggreieved in scenes like the priest but also be shown to be driven by other motivations. That's surely far closer to showing the reality of the world than a lot of what we get from Hollywood.

    In terms of actually selling drama as well I tend to be on the side of playing things more subtly, she or anyone else never comes out and claims she's driven by guilt but again that's very true of real life and I think Frances McDormand is a strong enough actress being filmed by a quality director that facial reactions sell this much more effectively. Something like Alien convent mentioned recently for be is incredibly unsubtle with its drama(especially compared to the original Alien) and suffers greatly as a result for me.

    Honestly it feels like a film very well suited for its time as well highlighting how politics has increasingly shifted into simplistic shrill partisan viewpoints.
     
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  17. Rimbaud82 Brown Belt

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    So, my thoughts on Rey.

    On the whole I thought it was really interesting and I am glad I went to see it. The story itself is an interesting footnote in history...a French lawyer who decides to travel to South America to become King... I have been trying to do a little research into the true story, but nothing much has come up so far. Maybe there would be more in Spanish, but from what I have read the details of what actually happened are very scarce. It did actually happen that the main character Orélie-Antoine de Tounens did briefly assume the title of King of Araucania and Patagonia in 1860, he was then put on trial, declared insane (with a kind of paranoia where a person becomes fixated on one idea) and then banished from Chile.

    In the film it is told in a very unconventional/experimental way, the story is delivered in five 'chapters' plus an epilogue, but it is non-linear, alternatively moving between various episodes of de Tounens time in South America. It is a collection of connected vignettes more than a conventional story. Some scenes are presented naturalistically, others are completely surreal with characters wearing paper-mache masks of their own faces, or with strange dreamlike aspects (though I won't go into specifics). It also includes film which was artificially aged (by the director supposedly burying it in his back garden) along with genuine archival footage. Oftentimes the events are shown multiple times, in a way that contradicts what was shown initially, or shows it in a sllightly different way that alters the meaning.

    The film is supposed to raise questions of historical meaning and the possibility of knowing historical 'truth'. It's something I found very interesting as I have been looking at that exact topic for some of my postgrad work; the constructed nature of many (some theorists would say all) historical accounts and interpretation vs. the claim of history to tell 'what actually happened'. So it was interesting to see how this was incorporated into the film.

    Visually it is extremely striking and I feel it's definitely the sort of thing that would come off much better in the cinema environment rather than on a computer or tv screen. Ultimately the film descends into pure psychedelic madness, becoming stranger and more manic to reflect the visions of the main characters increasing insanity. I can certainly see where the Herzog comparisons come in, there are shades of Aguirre and Fitzcarraldo in the obsessive character of de Tounen. But the purely psychedelic and experimental aspects are more akin to something like a Kenneth Anger film, it was definitely like something from the 60s or 70s. Though the ending collages also put me in mind of Wheatley's A Field in England. But it is it's own film. It's certainly not perfect and does sometimes slip into what seems like strangeness for it's own sake, but by the end the overall effect left me engaged with it. Some reviews I read beforehand gave it around 3-3.5 stars which I would agree with. On the whole, worth seeing; pretty good but not great
     
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  18. sweede Green Belt

    sweede
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    Recent films I have seen are Nocturnal Animals (7/10) and A cure for Wellness (8,5/10).

    The latter must be one of the most gorgeous looking movies I have seen in a very long time. Top-cinematography indeed!

    While both films are very watchable and strange in their respective ways, there are certain scenes that have haunted me and especially my wife since then.

    The scenes I´m thinking about are the ones with a nurse with bare breast that make another man masturbate, and the opening scene in NA.

    While, I have experience from the more oddity of life, and have a high loft when it comes to accepting weird stuff (lets say it´s art). But the sight of the tits got me totally off-balance. Those pairs has to be the most horrible couple I have ever seen. And then i ask my self. Why in the whole wide world did they decide to put her in to that particualr scene? Was the film-maker deliberately casting an actor with gross tits for just shock-effect? I´m clueless on this one. But it destroyed my appetite for the rest of that day.

    My wife is from another culture and is more straight forward. In most cases she dosen´t like abstract things in life, and certainly not when artsy things happen in movies. She literally was going to throw up when she saw the tits and the fat ladies. And the response after in her own way was. Why? Why are they actors? Are they not ashame of them self? Who want to be with a woman that look like that? At this moment I knew I was in for a cultural treat, and my response would be, that is a very rude way of saying things. You are thinking out loud again. But I shut up. Knowing very well I could be tricked in to a very heated discussion with her. LOL

    fatty.jpg 22-7.jpg

    Edit: I am glad to see more people think the start is very disturbing.

     
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    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018 at 2:23 PM
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  19. Ricky13 You are who you choose to be.

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    Most entertaining post in SMD since @Flemmy Stardust used to post here.

    Thank you. We needed that.
     
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  20. HUNTERMANIA "I felt it."

    HUNTERMANIA
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    ehhhh...

    I watched Dunkirk and I didn't like it at all. It was OK, I mean, but it was too monotone and it just didn't fulfill what I was looking for in a movie (namely in that it wasn't very entertaining or interesting or meaningful).
     
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