Serious Movie Discussion | Page 41

Discussion in 'Mayberry Lounge' started by Bullitt68, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. moreorless87 Gold Belt

    moreorless87
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    In this case don't take "trashy" to mean poor, rather its a comment on the style of cinema I think it is, that is containing rather more horror/exploitation style elements than I remember, I mean something like say Alien I would call somewhat trashy as well despite loving it. There are a few aspects I wouldn't be quite as positive about (her home life being a little to obviously repressive IMHO)but and I would not consider it quite as singular a film as I did at the time but its still certainly excellent cinema.

    Again I'd definitely recommend Jackie if you love Portman in Black Swan. Its something I admit I dismissed on release as it seemed like it would be another piece of Oscar bait but it actually goes into much darker territory than I expected. It obviously doesn't have the physco sexual horror aspects of black swan but its a similar kind of intense performance from her filmed in a similar fashion.
     
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  2. Bullitt68 Senior Moderator

    Bullitt68
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    Hey, it could've been worse. I could've been a pedantic nerd.

    HUNTER: Mother was awful.
    Me: Read this essay on why it's not.

    I could've even been a pedantic and arrogant nerd.

    HUNTER: Mother was awful.
    Me: Read this essay that I wrote on why it's not.

    There are a lot of colors in my nerd rainbow. HUNTER only got one this time :D

    The Wrestler is my favorite, too, but it's kind of by default as I'm not crazy about any of his films, The Wrestler included. Never saw Noah, though. Russell Crowe had me intrigued, but the story and Aronofsky telling it have kept me away.
     
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  3. Ricky13 You are who you choose to be.

    Ricky13
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    This is how I see Black Swan tonally too. It's got the same hip-hop aesthetic as Requiemlookhowbaddrugsarecropswilldieyouruteruswillshrivel.

    I'll consider myself lucky then homie.

    I'm the same about Darren. He don't do for me like QT or teh Coens.

    I even like Nolan and Fincher more, though Fincher is testing my patience.

    But Noah's really good mang. See it. Also Emma Watson and stuff. And like, Emma Watson's in it.
     
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  4. moreorless87 Gold Belt

    moreorless87
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    Aronofsky for me feels rather like Scorsese, yeah he's an auteur but actually his best work has come though channelling very strong individual performances, Black Swan and the Wrestler clearly being his best films for me with that focus.
     
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  5. chickenluver Bookmobile Driver

    chickenluver
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    I take it you're thinking of Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, The King of Comedy, The Last Temptation of Christ, Cape Fear, maybe Wolf of Wall Street, anything else?
     
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  6. moreorless87 Gold Belt

    moreorless87
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    The Aviator is his best with Leo for me, again I think really focusing on a handful of actors performances is his greatest ability rather than building incredibly intricate plots or locations. That's I think an underrated skill as a director, I mean you look at De Niro and a lot of the performance tends to come via more subtle facial expression and body movements rather than verbally which I think needs more help from a director to bring across effectively. Black Swan is obviously the same with the camera work focusing very closely on Portman to help get the performance across.
     
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  7. ufcfan4 Can't Andle The Riddum

    ufcfan4
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    Mother was shit. It was well made shit that looked cool and had some good performances (I particularly liked Ed Harris and Michelle Pfeiffer in it though I thought Lawrence was undeniably effective), but it was still bad and repugnant. Once you realize what Aronofsky is trying to do, it left me feeling, what was the point.

    I'll save other thoughts till after Ricky sees it.
     
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  8. HUNTERMANIA "I'll be the prince."

    HUNTERMANIA
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    I'll read it later. I'm just telling you though, I have fundamental problems with Aronofsky's potrayal of God, in that it was grossly inaccurate... he goes way too far away from reality... he's referencing a source material, but not referencing it correctly AT ALL and it's totally incoherent. Not to mention, it just gave me a headache.

    I'm just gonna copy my posts from the Mother! thread, but I'll read that essay first.


    When you were criticizing Black Swan you pointed out a technique you thought Aronofsky had stolen from another director and you said it felt like he simply did it bc the other director did it, so it must be good (and maybe that is what he did, he said he took the style from this anime, Perfect Blue, but after this film I question that). Well, I thought of you while I was watching this because in the first 30 minutes or so there are like 15 scenes stolen from Black Swan, which I identified immediately because of my familiarity with those scenes, and I liked seeing them, but it seemed very much that he was doing something like you were saying, except copying himself: "Hey guys, remember that awesome movie I made, Black Swan, well THIS is really great too!!" Except it wasn't. I definitely thought of you and your criticism of BS when I saw that.
     
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  9. HUNTERMANIA "I'll be the prince."

    HUNTERMANIA
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    I'm just playing around with you :)

    I'll look into Jackie
     
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  10. Ricky13 You are who you choose to be.

    Ricky13
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    I can certainly see why you disliked it.

    I really liked it man. I can't post in detail as I am literally in bed and have an early day. But will leave an overall impression.

    The first half reminded me a ton of Cassavetes' Woman Under the Influence (technique aiding intent). But what elevates it is the ridiculous abandon of the second half. He goes simply batshit yet sticks somehow to what seems like a mundane, circuitous conceit.

    There's a scene in particular that offends me a little and I'm struggling to piece together whether it was justified for a larger, virtuous point the movie was making (without spoiling I'll just say it was the only sex scene, and not the distinctly upsetting one towards the end).

    So yeah..liked it a lot. And happy to hear your or anyone else's thoughts before I forget the thing. It was quite a show. Last time I left a film with as much of a buzz was Raw.
     
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  11. HUNTERMANIA "I'll be the prince."

    HUNTERMANIA
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    Hugh Jackman was great in The Fountain too, I thought.
     
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  12. HUNTERMANIA "I'll be the prince."

    HUNTERMANIA
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    I'm about to throw down in this thread on Mother! later after I read this essay. Because I have MAJOR, MAJOR problems with the film.

    [​IMG]

    Like, if you don't have any problem with him using the bible as his source material and then totally misquoting it, misportraying it in every way imaginable, seemingly on purpose, then you'll love it, but, as Bullitt often likes to say, a film needs to be coherent... at least not purposefully false and misleading... he undermines his purpose, completely, in my eyes.


    This is like... the total opposite of Black Swan for me where every messy piece came together in a way that I loved and in this film, Mother! every messy part came together in a way that I absolutely hated.


    Alright , I'll be back later.
     
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  13. ufcfan4 Can't Andle The Riddum

    ufcfan4
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    lol Hunter, you and I might have to do some copy and pasting from the Mother thread...we already expressed a lot of frustration at this one. But now a fresh audience to which to voice disapproval...
     
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  14. ufcfan4 Can't Andle The Riddum

    ufcfan4
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    Hey it was wildly divisive for a reason, right?

    I actually really dug much of the first hour. Aronofsky builds up a lot of suspense and Pfeiffer and Harris are, as I've said, probably my favorite aspect of the movie.

    But the problem is that I preferred it when it seemed like a psychological horror film about the invasion of privacy. Once Domnhall and bro showed up and I got the metaphor it started to go way south for me pretty quickly.

    On the positive side, I think Bardem is a boss and could watch him in any role. Lawrence is sort of in that position where I think she's actually popular to the extent that people are starting to deny or criticize her talents. Not me. For me, the only thing that kept me interested in the absolute clusterfuck of the last twenty minutes was the fact that she effectively conveyed horror and outrage.

    But yeah Harris and Pfeiffer creepily encroaching on the idyllic environment Lawrence was trying to create in the home coupled with Bardem's increasingly unsettling fondness for them being there was the better movie in my opinion. As the film really started to go into allegory mode, I started to lose a lot of interest.

    The last twenty minutes is visually interesting, of course, but it's some ugly shit. Ugly, unsettling, making a jaded viewer of horror films like myself uneasy type shit.
     
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  15. HUNTERMANIA "I'll be the prince."

    HUNTERMANIA
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    Ok, article time.

    No. See, no, no, no no, nononononononono NO!!!!!!!!

    This makes me want to scream like 'Mother' did the film.

    That is precisely NOT what the film is about. Absolutely not. No. If it were about that, it would have been a good movie.

    First, I'm going to quote several of my posts, exactly as they were written, so you can follow my train of thought about the movie, because I did not understand the movie fully at first and you can see this in my posts.

    --- So, The Fountain is Aronofsky's take on the meaning of life and death, and what he says is how he views God or what his religion is. Totally cool. I don't have to agree with him about any of that to appreciate the movie, and I don't but I still love that movie.

    Noah, while not a film I enjoyed, also is simply Aronofsky's take on things unwritten in the bible, namely, the state of mind someone in Noah's position would be in. Clearly, I cannot object to Aronofsky interpreting this, because it is not written.

    However, in Mother! Aronofsky literally takes THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, AS DEPICTED BY THE BIBLE, AND GROSSLY MISSTATES IT. So, there is no room for interpretation in the things that he tries to interpret, that's why this film is so different than the others.

    You cannot be more wrong than he was in this film in his portrayal of God, in his portrayal of earth and the relationship it has to God, the relationship humans have to God, like, there were some moments of truth here and there, but it leaves out the whole: God telling humanity to be stewards of the earth and to care for it. Not to mention Original Sin, all of that, is totally missing (he has a scene that is supposed to reference Original Sin, but nothing changes in the film, things simply happen -- it as if God needed Original Sin to happen to create love again, and it's absurd). He totally fucks up the Jesus story on purpose and if you're making a movie about the biblical narrative for earth, Jesus is kind of like the main fucking character. So, that's egregious and dumb in how it was portrayed, it was done simply for shock value and was extremely trashy.

    Then, I read Aronofsky's explanation for the film, and I had this to say:

    Ok, now I will actually go through the written parts of that article... but the summary triggered me so fucking hard because that is NOT an accurate summary of the movie.

    I was HOPING, the whole film, the movie would be like that, I was HOPING THAT WAS THE MOVIE, but it wasn't and it never was, that description was merely the pretense for watching the movie in the first place and it was not the point Aronofsky was making whatsoever. So, already, that article is inaccurate, but I will read it.
     
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  16. HUNTERMANIA "I'll be the prince."

    HUNTERMANIA
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    Yes. This is one of my favorite things about Aronofsky, but he DOES abandon the dramatic structure in this movie. He finally does abandon it, and wow, I see it in his eyes, this is his 'Perfect' moment, where he just ditches the 'story' once and for all:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Except it wasn't.

    Next!

    Ok, I'm buying this: "a feminist 'third testament'" but he gets the Old Testament and the New Testament completely wrong (which is why I'm buying the idea that it is a post-modern third testament, subversive with no claims to accuracy).

    \

    But this is never really developed, this WOULD HAVE BEEN a good movie, but it was never developed because that was never the point. There is no moment, like with Portman staring down at her mother in the audience in Black Swan, that we see it all come together as it was for the original characters (as we understood them). No, instead he ditches all of this and tells us that Javier has been God the whole time. There is no desire to reconcile any of this.

    And, because of that fact, the beginning of the story regarding the tale of a wife and her husband, can be simply disregarded because it was meaningless plot structure, and instead we look back and understand that it was God interacting with Earth --- and this is especially troubling, Aronofsky, wants to split up God's creations into many characters yet there relationship with God is different. Like, there is the house, there is Lawrence, and they are tentatively linked, but how humans interact with Lawrence and the house compared to how they interact with God is not at all how it actually goes. One of the main points of the bible is that every person has committed the sin of preferring creation to the Creator, so this point about how 'God' is so cool with the humans while the earth is neglected is dumb and backwards. No, humans deify the earth while ignoring the real God. Yes, the earth gets trampled on in the process, but that's the only thing Aronofsky gets right.

    Exactly. The article makes my point. But you cannot escape this reading of the film because Aronofsky FORCES YOU to accept it.

    You don't get to choose to say, "This is somehow something different than what he is actually saying, even though he makes it plain, scene after scene, what he is referencing." You don't get to ignore that and interpret the film as something totally separate. This article has now taken off into the realm of the imaginary.

    Except Man and God are not the same at all, and Him is certainly not 'man', He is God, for sure. It would be nice if Aronofsky chose to make this film instead of making it about God, but he didn't.

    And God is not like this at all. I agree this is a good reading of the character, but that is why it's so problematic that Him is God and not Man.

    No. This author has a very nice imagination, but this is ridiculous. Especially the last line, ahhahaha. And the movie, if it were saying this, which it wasn't, but if it was, it would be even worse than I am saying it is now. There is nothing remotely interesting about Lawrence's character or how that character was portrayed. I do not see the depth -- laughable. Multidimensional? She is no-dimensional. She's beyond basic.

    Yes, here is something good, at least to help understand the author. If you want to privilege reality over unreality, then this film has major problems. Considering his source material is the bible, there is a clear delineation about whose story comes first: GOD'S story comes first, every time. And the earth isn't a person, either, and it is not to be personified. Ugh.
     
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  17. covenant Brown Belt

    covenant
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    Do Sherdoggers rate "Dark Skies" If you have not seen it have a sus.
     
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  18. moreorless87 Gold Belt

    moreorless87
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    Just to lower the tone did nobody involved with this Redford film ever say the title out loud before release?

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. HUNTERMANIA "I'll be the prince."

    HUNTERMANIA
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    also, LMAO @ Handmaid's Tale winning an emmy. Seriously one of the worst shows I've ever seen. It was well-produced, I enjoyed the aesthetic, but I couldn't make it through 2 episodes. It was 'awful and dumb', like, not in the sense that the production was awful, but the tone was like, "THIS PLACE IS HORRIBLE AND EVERYONE WANTS TO DIE... except for a few moments where we talk like teenagers to make it awful in a different way." like 90% awful, 10% dumb.

    And it just had nothing to offer besides the plainness of the environment being not a good place. I felt like I learned everything the show wanted to teach in less than 1 episode and there was nothing more to it. I honestly couldn't watch it.
     
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  20. Sigh GunRanger You think anybody will notice?

    Sigh GunRanger
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