Serious Movie Discussion | Page 24

Discussion in 'Mayberry Lounge' started by Bullitt68, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. europe1 It´s a nice peninsula to Asia

    europe1
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    Yeah, the danger is them being done badly, and I just sort of got that impression from the trailer. They're tropes that tend to be done bad oftenly and be done really badly when it happens.

    But necktattoos are always done baaadly.

    Never seen that one actually.

    And the Moon is made of Cheese damit!

    [​IMG]

    I liked it but I liked the first film more. Felt as if it had more stake-wise. Wick's vendetta with the family was just handled in a better and more engaging manner. Felt more personal for him and all that.


    I didn't really find the motivations or character-stuff very engaging. Wick and Santino, Wick and Gianna, Wick and Laurence Fishburn. All the "talk" in that film just didn't feel very evocative for me. It's just a bunch of characters sitting down and talking in serious tones. I never really felt the personal angle that was achieved in the first film. Like, Gianna asking Wick if he "fears Damnation" didn't really trigger any emotional response with me towards Wick, it just felt like a line thrown out there to serve the plot. As you said, all those conversations just feels like the movie reminding the audience why Wick is doing this as opposed to using it to achieve any development or pathos.

    So yeah, I never really got onboard with the "stakes" of the movie in the first place. It was only really watchable for the action set-pieces. The reveal-and-effect and all that. That ending shoot-out in the modern arts museum is precisely the sort of artsy-fartsy mood-setting that makes my lips curve into a grin.

    There was a hint of humor to the whole world-building. An assassin for every proffession, and all that. But it didn't really elevate the film for me.

    I think Headshot would have been an more accurate title than John Wick 2. :p
     
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  2. Ricky13 You are who you choose to be.

    Ricky13
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    I can't vouch for the tattoos unfortunately. I can tell you the film is pretty flawless. Including Boyd Holbrook as the villain. It's hard to think of a superhero film as good. The Dark Knight is the only one I can say is genuinely better, and even that suffers from being too grounded in the real world, as opposed to, say, Guardians. Mangold managed to marry comic book emotionality with gravitas. There's a lot of familiar tropes, but you never really shake your head at them because the writing is so darned good at making you feel the motivations unconsciously. The only way to be bothered by them is to go into the film with "familiarity" in mind.

    It works mang.

    Looking forward to your review.

    More confused by this than your preconceptions re: Logan.

    It's great! Get on it!

    That's cracking Grommit. I can't believe someone else on here watches these.

    Agree with all of this.
     
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  3. Caveat Mozart in a Go-Kart

    Caveat
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    p-hacking your subjectivity
    Checked it out because of this post (took a while to *ahem* become available relative to the other nominees, which was the only reason I didn't see it sooner). Not much to say atm but right on. I'm noticing some of my favourite films are adapted theater plays.

    To add to the others, Jovan Adepo's internal conflict in the last scene was wonderfully portrayed. The little girl was a bit much, but the trumpet and sunshine couldn't be denied.
     
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  4. europe1 It´s a nice peninsula to Asia

    europe1
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    The time has come...

    [​IMG]

    Now, I don't love superhero movies as much as you guys do so my standards are a lot lower, but I would even go a step further and say that Logan is the best superhero movie of all time (unless you count stuff like Dredd). Including all the Batman stuff. That said, the movie didn't feel very comic-book-y, which might have contributed to that. But I've read a precious few comics in my day so that might be an egregious statement on my part.


    Personally, the Looper vibe resonated the strongest with me.

    There is a lot of shots in Logan about modern decadence and dissolution. The people in the casino hoitering and hollering over gambling. The decadent personas that Jackman drives around in the limo (like the tits-flashing bride). Him spending all time lonely at the bar. All his friends and family being dead. Like Looper, it's a world where people fill their soul with sensory stimulation. This is of course taken to the extreme with the Institute that threat children like nothing but assets.

    The relationship between Jackman and Laura (and Laura and her friends) I felt mirror the experience of Joseph Gordon-Levitt at the farm. You have a movie set in this world of moral and emotional dissolution, with its protagonists experiencing an emotional void in said world. They then encounter a more pure, genuine sense of happiness -- found in a family, which gives them a purpose and sense of contentedness in life. In both cases, it's a return to something more "simple". Leaving the sensory-gratifications of the modern world behind and seeing a family, at a farm-home or in the friendships of a group of abused kids.



    Probably my biggest bone to pick with this movie was Proffesor X deciding to stay with the farmer-family. He knew they were being hunted. He knew that he was putting them in mortal danger. He remembered killing 600 people. You'd think collateral damage would be on his mind, no? How could he so recklessly endanger them? Wasn't he supposed to be the wise one?



    You can't break the mould.

    Both Logan and Shane are men of violence who see the opportunity of settling in a more wholesome, communal, family-existence. I think the differences are sort of more interesting than the similarities though. Shane really tries to integrate. He wants to be a part of the community more than anything else on earth. Ryker and Wilson force his hands. When the going gets rough he feels compelled to use violence again, to be his old self. But that also dooms him, since it would be impossible to re-integrate into the community, since the stamp of violence would change how everyone saw him and thought of him. But he still had to do it because of what he cared about.

    As a man of violence, he can solve the question of violence by eliminating Ryker and Wilson. But to really rid the valley of violence he too needs to leave. "There are no more guns in the valley, Joe".

    Logan stays at arms-lenght at all times. He rejects the money but never plans to follow them to the promised land. He's to emotionally scared to even try to integrate into the community. But like Shane, he's a man of violence, and therefore he can solve issues related to violence. You can't break the mold. Or -- as the Swedish subtitles said -- you can't change your personality. Ironically, it's violence itself that enables him to forge the bond he wants with Laura, by saving them from the Institute and therefore guaranteeing their future, allowing him to bypass the whole "social interaction" thing-y.

    The quote containing the words "Joey, there's no living with... with a killing. There's no going back from one. Right or wrong, it's a brand. A brand sticks." Is a bit wonky for this film though. Shane saves Joey from becomming a man of violence himself (along with the rest of the valley I suppose). And he does so by doing the violence himself. The situation isn't really analogous in Logan since Laura kills a shitload of people herself. By Shane-logic, she already has the stamp. She's already a killer. So is the movie insinuating that she's going to grow up and become like Logan? But that seems particularly egregious since she seems to have a wholesome family-unit with the other kids, which would enable her to grow up and become an emotionally balanced and good human being. The specter of loneliness and violence doesn't seem to hang over Laura the way it did Logan at the end.



    Some other random thoughts...

    * The hotel scene was fucking awesome. Small, details, like the mercenary shifting his eyes as Logan approaches. Badass.

    * This movie was fucking dark man! Children tortured, killed, brainwashed and raised in enslavement. Some really disturbing stuff. I got sort-of pissed off at the audience I was watching this movie with. Near the end where the fat black kid was running away from the soldiers -- a whole slew of people started laughing! They think more about the fact that watching a fat kid running is funny than the fact that these kids are in the process of being slaughered and butchered?

    * I thought it was sort of funny how the nurse says "This is illegal in America and Canada" before showing footage of children being killed and experimented on. Like, really? I'm pretty sure those things are illegal world-wide, lady.:p

    * I really liked how the evil scientist guy used a negotiation tactic when talking to the mutants (start by acknowledging their pain, accept partial responsibility, claim "greater good" etc). I don't really remember the name but it's a common method for handling a conversation. It shows just how cold-hearted he is. He uses a therapeutic method to try and gain someone's trust. It shows that he thinks that emotions are just something there to be manipulated so that he can gain what he wants.

    * My friend kept complaining that Laura's Spanish accent was clearly Spanish instead of Mexican.

    * On the subject of Spanish, wouldn't it have been cooler if Laura kept speaking spanish through the film until the Shane-quote came?




    For some reason this guy scared the bejesus out of me when I was seven.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Rimbaud82 Brown Belt

    Rimbaud82
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    So, in the past week I watched two Paul Newman films. The classic Cool Hand Luke and Hud.

    Cool Hand Luke
    was awesome, excellent prison/chain-gang drama but it's the characters that really carry the film and Newman plays the anti-hero fighting against 'the man' perfectly, there are so many memorable scenes. It was a little one-dimensional and isn't perfect, but it was thoroughly enjoyable. Newman plays a sort of similar anti-hero in Hud in the sense that he is going against the grain of society, but he's definitely more of a bastard in that. Hud grapples with a bit more with that kind of rebellious spirit vs. traditional values, fairly obviously in the character of Hud and his feud with his old-fashioned father. In the end it seems more critical too. But it was also a film that I really enjoyed.

    I'll watch a few more Newman films soon, maybe The Hustler.
     
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  6. Rimbaud82 Brown Belt

    Rimbaud82
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    And who doesn't love Wallace and Gromit?


     
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  7. europe1 It´s a nice peninsula to Asia

    europe1
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    See, for me that was more a problem with Hud (and The Hustler for that matter) than Cool Hand Luke. Personally, I'm talking about the tone here. The mood feels so flat and one-dimesional that it spurs little reaction from me. Yeah the plot advances, but the emotions don't. The ambiance feels the same no matter what happenes. That's really unappealing for me.

    That moment where they put the cattle to sleep was really good though. That's how I feel about both Hud and Hustler, intriguing premises with great moments but rather unappealing overall.

    Yeah that descripes a whole heap of Newman films. It's basically his persona. The Hustler, The Left-Handed Gun, Hud, Cool Hand Luke and so on.

    I think it's interesting that in Hud, his antisocial tendancies are a results of his family situation. In Hustler, is feels more like a youth/adult(establishment) divide. In Left-Handed Gun, it's more that he's unguided and deprived of parental figures.

    But in Cool Hand Luke though, it's more existential. Newman doesn't know why he wants to rebell. He destroys the parking-meters over a compulsion. He asks God near the ending what He wants of him. It's depicts a man wondering why he is like he is and unable to find answers. I suppose there is some Christian martyr-complex going on with him, Luke wanting to sacrifice himself for others. He tries to raise their spirits. Like him eating the eggs and then collapsing into the figure of a crucifix. Or the many references to the Gospel of Luke.

    None of his aforementioned roles were so introspective and soul-searching. That said, I honestly feel like I've forgotten a lot about Cool Hand Luke, like as if there is some sort of conclusion or puzzle-piece to the movie that I've forgotten:D.

    As you said, it does have some really... memorable moments.;)

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. theskza Silver Belt

    theskza
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    Manchester by the Sea is the best of 2016.

    I always thought Bullitt was gay for some reason.
     
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  9. Flemmy Stardust King of Lea

    Flemmy Stardust
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    Where you been, bro?
     
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  10. Flemmy Stardust King of Lea

    Flemmy Stardust
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    @Ricky13 @Bullitt68

    Definitely gonna check out Logan. Been a little while since I really wanted to watch a movie.
     
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  11. theskza Silver Belt

    theskza
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    Busy
     
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  12. Flemmy Stardust King of Lea

    Flemmy Stardust
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    That's good...or bad. Either way, good to see you.
     
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  13. theskza Silver Belt

    theskza
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    All good, bro!
     
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  14. NoGiRonin Orange Belt

    NoGiRonin
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    So, I think I want to check out the 2014 version of Godzilla. I have been re-watching a lot of the 60's/70's Godzilla films which I love. And now I am curious about the 2014 version. Is it worth a viewing? I've heard mixed receptions of it.
     
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  15. ufcfan4 Can't Andle The Riddum

    ufcfan4
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    I find it to be okayish. Nothing offensively bad as far as I'm concerned but pretty dull and unmemorable once you look back on the experience after watching it.
     
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  16. Spawned_Fighter nobody but me

    Spawned_Fighter
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    Late but, rip Robert Osborne
     
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  17. theskza Silver Belt

    theskza
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    Worth a watch, but don't have high expectations.
     
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  18. HUNTERMANIA God alone.

    HUNTERMANIA
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    Logan was great. Really great. Had me in tears a few times.

    Only part I didn't like was the very end with the juice. (leaving out any possible spoilers) - I felt like that was poorly handled.

    The rest of the movie: brilliant.
     
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  19. Ricky13 You are who you choose to be.

    Ricky13
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    Why?

    [​IMG]

    Fools.

    Do it.

    Hate to be that guy but I still think Spider-Man 2/The Dark Knight are much better films, and it's not a patch on the ones I referred to (Yuma/Looper), but it's good man.

    I think it's pretty bad. Like, not a good movie. Some awful writing.

    There's cool shit in there, I guess. Go with your gut man. Maybe you'll point out something cool about it that we'll come around to.

    Could you elaborate?

    I'm having more issues with it the more I think about it (no rewatch though to base this on), but my overall impression is it's a very good film, and I'd love to see it again.
     
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  20. HUNTERMANIA God alone.

    HUNTERMANIA
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    @Ricky13 I haven't read your posts on the film (or anyone else's, lol) but my thoughts were:

    He takes the whole bottle of stuff, we have no indication throughout the film that it has a short half-life and suddenly, "it's wearing off" - like, what? lame. A whole bottle lasts literally 10 minutes? It just felt off to me, like it interrupted the flow, they could have let him keep going and fight the other wolverine and still lose/have the girl shoot him w/o any of that "it's worn off" nonsense
     
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