Serious Movie Discussion XLII

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I didn't find it particularly tasteful but I think that was the point - to reveal the lack of depth in Susan's character. She refers to the act as junk herself a few scenes into the film.



I enjoyed that scene too and thought it was expertly crafted. The audience is forced to confront Tony's weakness in the worst possible circumstances and you can almost feel the doors of escape closing around him as he misses every opportunity to intervene. The frustration that mounts in those scenes is exasperating - fortunately the story-within-a-story mechanism kept me from feeling its impact too sharply.



I'm not really a fan of Adams at all but I don't think she was required to be much more than herself in this role. Her character has surrounded herself with a dull, uninspired "structure" and her personality reflects that. She didn't exactly take over the screen with her subtlety (actually I got the impression that she was trying to do too much in the way of small facial expressions in a few scenes) but for the most part she didn't distract from it either.



Absolutely agree here, although if I recall correctly there was some mention of the accolades the book had garnered I was glad the film mostly kept the scope on how it was a reflection of the author that was prompted by the exit of his wife.



Agree again, and especially with The Place Beyond the Pines which was a landslide after it started so well.

I don't put as much blame on Nocturnal Animals because I don't think it was supposed to be that kind of movie - but rather one where a quiet emotional drama unfolds as a result of an extreme trauma that happened to be captured very well.

That actually leads me into my main criticism of the film, which is that the significance of the book-story was so much more extreme than the film-story that it became difficult to accept the comparison. Even more unfortunate is that the final scene emphasized this misalignment by moving past the resolution of the epic revenge story to enable a petty stunt. Honestly
they should have both died at the end, Tony on the ground and Susan in the bathtub. I really though the film gave us just enough exposition to make that a possibility and was disappointed that it ended on so lame a note.

You could probably take a message out of this supposed weakness by challenging the instinct to over-dramatize the meaningful parts of our lives and allow them undo influence on our persons - Tony is a sensitive pussy after all - but it did leave a bad taste in my mouth after I was so engrossed for most of the time otherwise.



Glad you liked it! Arrival is near the top of my list of what to watch next as well.

Remind me to talk about how bad The Accountant was a some point when I come back. @europe1 already got me started in another thread.


Great insight and comments as usual. I guess the one thing I was trying to reconcile in my mind that I didn't really come to a real conclusion on was...

I know that Tony's book is of course directly informed, as you said, by the trauma of the relationship with his wife- how it ended- and his own difficulties grappling with his perceived weakness. I know that he had to deal with the issue of weakness and impotence in the sense that his wife and mother-in-law and others emasculated him with the sense that he was too flaky and not a good provider, etc. But I'm assuming that a big part of the parallel with the story within the story and how the protagonist's wife and daughter are killed when he cannot bring himself to intervene in their abduction has to do with the aborting of Tony/Susan's child. That said, I couldn't really get the parallel there cause Tony had no idea Adams was going to do that. That wasn't an instance of weakness or failing to act- it was ignorance of the situation at hand.
 
Ricky's awards film countdown: Moonlight was gorgeous.

Would love to jump in on the Nocturnal Animals chatter. No time though to really get into it.

I saw it two or maybe three months ago but don't think I wrote about it here. My experience seemed to mirror Caveat's.

Ford has skills. But it's accompanied by some serious up-his-own-itis. The story within the story is pure craft. I wish every thriller functioned the way it did. The key was setting up the force that was eliciting panic in the audience (Ray) as an entity that is a mind-fuck. It's a trick 10 Cloverfield Lane will pay dearly down the line for not exploiting.

But overall, not sold. Endings mean a ton to me. (Caveat mentioned the ridiculous pettiness of Edward's revenge. It's a pretty bad parallel.) Further there's a stunning in-congruence between the two stories, just in a bare bones, keep-me-watching story sense. It falls apart as a breathing plot for me. I have reasons, I swear, but can't do this at the moment.
 
Just watched The Accountant, it was weird and stilted in places, other parts were really good. I liked the close quarters action the most, it seems like we have seen some evolution in the aesthetic of using pistols in the pocket; from Bourne, to Wick, to this.
Occasional bursts of ingenuity but the scene with the strobe lights.. holy f.. that went on for almost a minute.
Overall, not bad - 7/10.
 
I watched Fantastic Beasts and Rogue One --- Rogue One sucked.

Fantastic Beasts... I felt like there were some good things about this movie, but ultimately grindelwald was disappointing. That should have been so much better. They better have a follow-up that builds on this and focuses on his story more.
 
The Accountant was plenty awkward at times, but I actually watched all of it and ended up liking parts of it, which is more than I can say for most movies.

I think I would have stopped watching both Rogue One and Fantastic Beasts if I wasn't expecting an epic ending (that neither delivered)/hadn't paid money to sit in theater.
 
I don't mean to be a tease (yes I do) but:

1) @Ricky13: It'll be a mixed bag, as always, but I'll have some shit for you on Gilmore Girls and the evolution of the Marvel movies (just watched Civil War so save for Doctor Strange I'm finally up-to-date). I'm also halfway through Stranger Things, though by tomorrow I plan on being able to say I'm done with Stranger Things.

2) @HUNTERMANIA: I finished Westworld last night. Before I saw that post of yours, I did manage to sneak in one of the non-Aronofsky movies you originally picked for me, too, though I'll keep you in suspense as to which one I watched.

And don't you worry, @europe1: I won't be leaving your mega posts hanging much longer.

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I saw La La Land yesterday. Truly an awesome film. Gosling actually plays piano, sings and tap dances, and Emma Stone also sings and tap dances. The music composed for the film was wonderful, the jazz included. The musical numbers were great. The love story between Stone and Gosling was also great. The ending actually moved me quite a bit. 8/10
 
So who else took as much enjoyment in seeing Ronda get beat as I did?
 
Going to see Silence later, really looking forward to it. Haven't bothered seeing anything in the cinema for a while now. I downloaded Silence (1971) by Masahiro Shinoda a few months ago but regrettably never got round to watching it, but I have high hopes for the Scorsese version. I will watch the older adaption at some point too of course.
 
I saw La La Land yesterday. Truly an awesome film. Gosling actually plays piano, sings and tap dances, and Emma Stone also sings and tap dances. The music composed for the film was wonderful, the jazz included. The musical numbers were great. The love story between Stone and Gosling was also great. The ending actually moved me quite a bit. 8/10

Great movie. As someone who enjoyed old-school movies like Singin' in the Rain, I really appreciated it. And one of the more glaring examples of a film where I thought it got substantially better as it got going, building to a very memorable, resonant ending.

Gosling and Stone were terrific.
 
So who else took as much enjoyment in seeing Ronda get beat as I did?

I enjoyed Garbrandt vs. Cruz even more. I'm a fan of both, but it was very cool to see Cody deliver such a quality performance (when I expected him to get flustered by Cruz's style) and also to get a measure of revenge for the trash talk with the continuous talking and the popping and locking moment which is probably the funniest thing I've seen in a fight since Nick just lay down in front of Anderson Silva. Plus it was a quality fight.

Nunes absolutely trounced Ronda. I expected her to finish but thought Ronda would at least get something going. Nunes blitzed her and made her look like she didn't belong in there. Nunes is a killer. Tate and Rousey, two most well-known female bantamweights starched in a matter of months.
 
And don't you worry, @europe1: I won't be leaving your mega posts hanging much longer.

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but it was very cool to see Cody deliver such a quality performance

Yeah, and what's even more insane is that it's almost like he's been hiding all those skills up-until-now.

Until that night, we had no idea that Cody could play the counterstriker, fight on the backpeddel, had excellent TDD and scrambles, or that he was so strategically savy. It's like we only saw one-dimension of Cody as a fighter until he fought Cruz.
 
Great insight and comments as usual. I guess the one thing I was trying to reconcile in my mind that I didn't really come to a real conclusion on was...

I know that Tony's book is of course directly informed, as you said, by the trauma of the relationship with his wife- how it ended- and his own difficulties grappling with his perceived weakness. I know that he had to deal with the issue of weakness and impotence in the sense that his wife and mother-in-law and others emasculated him with the sense that he was too flaky and not a good provider, etc. But I'm assuming that a big part of the parallel with the story within the story and how the protagonist's wife and daughter are killed when he cannot bring himself to intervene in their abduction has to do with the aborting of Tony/Susan's child. That said, I couldn't really get the parallel there cause Tony had no idea Adams was going to do that. That wasn't an instance of weakness or failing to act- it was ignorance of the situation at hand.

Right back atcha buddy.

I think he probably
tied the loss of his daughter in with his wife leaving him in general, so both events were associated with his weakness more abstractly.

But I agree with what you're saying about struggling with the parallel.

Ricky's awards film countdown: Moonlight was gorgeous.

Would love to jump in on the Nocturnal Animals chatter. No time though to really get into it.

I saw it two or maybe three months ago but don't think I wrote about it here. My experience seemed to mirror Caveat's.

Ford has skills. But it's accompanied by some serious up-his-own-itis. The story within the story is pure craft. I wish every thriller functioned the way it did. The key was setting up the force that was eliciting panic in the audience (Ray) as an entity that is a mind-fuck. It's a trick 10 Cloverfield Lane will pay dearly down the line for not exploiting.

But overall, not sold. Endings mean a ton to me. (Caveat mentioned the ridiculous pettiness of Edward's revenge. It's a pretty bad parallel.) Further there's a stunning in-congruence between the two stories, just in a bare bones, keep-me-watching story sense. It falls apart as a breathing plot for me. I have reasons, I swear, but can't do this at the moment.

Anytime I write something that at all resembles anything Ricky thinks:

raw


I still got waaaay into that film though. Totally grabbed me. Big league.


So you guys probably know about this already but I still need to post it if only to ask why @Bullitt68 hasn't sponsored us all for a free ride (or two) through it:

 
I watched Fantastic Beasts and Rogue One --- Rogue One sucked.

Fantastic Beasts... I felt like there were some good things about this movie, but ultimately grindelwald was disappointing. That should have been so much better. They better have a follow-up that builds on this and focuses on his story more.

Definitely agree with this assessment. Rouge One was really meh. The only good thing about this movie was Vader actually looking like a badass when he fought. Every time I think of Vader, I think of him fighting Obi in Episode IV, and goddamnit, that fight scene is like watching old people fuck.

Fantastic Beast was pretty damn solid but I was certainly underwhelmed with Grindlewald....he should have been so much more bad ass. Other than that though, no major complaints that I can think about at this time.
 
Ricky's awards films countdown:

Manchester by the Sea: fucking home run.

Silence: I might be the only guy that likes Scorsese's last two films more than most of his work. Silence is meditative. Exploratory. Will likely end up one of the best films about matters of faith ever made. Also the 2016 film most likely to stimulate conversation in the long run. It's just fun watching the masters do their thing to ask questions, compared to more pointed theses (Goodfellas).

It's interesting that there's a lot of conversation about how these two films are very "white". White people problems (Manchester). White saviour complex (Silence).

Completely misses the point.

I don't mean to be a tease (yes I do) but:

1) @Ricky13: It'll be a mixed bag, as always, but I'll have some shit for you on Gilmore Girls and the evolution of the Marvel movies (just watched Civil War so save for Doctor Strange I'm finally up-to-date). I'm also halfway through Stranger Things, though by tomorrow I plan on being able to say I'm done with Stranger Things.

Oh shit. It's going to get real.

Mixed bag. Why can't you just agree with me altogether? For once Bullitt. For ONCE!

Anytime I write something that at all resembles anything Ricky thinks:

raw


I still got waaaay into that film though. Totally grabbed me. Big league.

That's nice yo. :)

And I still think it's a good film. Been trying to get the girlfriend to see it, actually. Am curious how it comes across that the rape/murder is used to allow Tony's pain to be portrayed.

By the way, you should see Manchester by the Sea. It doesn't function in the same way as a family drama by Farhadi (A Separation), but I think it's right up your alley. Affleck floors it.
 
That's nice yo. :)

And I still think it's a good film. Been trying to get the girlfriend to see it, actually. Am curious how it comes across that the rape/murder is used to allow Tony's pain to be portrayed.

By the way, you should see Manchester by the Sea. It doesn't function in the same way as a family drama by Farhadi (A Separation), but I think it's right up your alley. Affleck floors it.

That's something that just hit me in a conversation I was having about the film today. Of everything I've heard about the weaknesses of the analogy between the two stories I'm surprised I haven't seen more about the audacity of employing a (female) rape analogy to represent (male) emotional turmoil.

It's a little cheeky, to put it lightly. It's also probably why the initial impression I had of the book was that it was an act of aggression toward Susan.

Will check out Manchester. I feel like I have so much from 2016 still to see, and that I'm actually looking forward to.
 
trying to remember a name of a samurai movie

i just saw it at walmart today but didnt grab it

its about a warlords son who become brutal and the village turns on him and the warlord prepares for it (not seven samurai or thirteen assassins)


seems like a newer movie...no older than two or three years
 
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So after several months of faffing about I got back to some of that cinematic literature Bullitt recommended to me. I read Arnold Schwarzenegger and The Movies by David Saunders... and immediately wished that I'd started reading it sooner. Firstly, this is the most awesomely written book of all time. Why can't every text contain such crafty prose?:D There was just line-after-line that made me grin and grin again. I can't overstate how enjoyable Saunders type of evocative writing is.

But man, those were some excellent and hard-hitting analyses as well. He really had some deep-thoughts on Arnold's career and how it intersects with society at large. Like Bullitt mentioned, the Predator write-up was really eye-opening. I've been aware of that movies explenation as a liberal analog for the failures of Vietnam... but Saunders take on it as a "do over -- to set things right", by returning to more primal, bodily displays of action, fit really neatly into the story I felt. Something also clicked in me when I read his take on Total Recall, how it tells it's Mars-bound narrative using old tropes of orientalist adventure tales to construct the story. That's... probably one of the reasons it's one of my favorite Arnold films. The chapter that I cocked my eyebrow the most at was probably the Terminator one. Saunders spends a lot of time examining the diffrences between T-800 and Reese when part of the interest lies in the dualism between the two, how in fighting machines Reese has taken on machine-like qualities himself (resistance to pain, inability to think of a life outside of war, etc).

Saunders made some really good overarching points about Arnolds appeal as well. Like the fascist allure of perfect, "pure" bodies that underscores society and births the opinion that everything from virtue to intellect should steam from having healty muscles. Or how Arnold benefited from the mythic trope that a Hero is always for the People, but almost never "of" the People. How Arnold's almost superhuman "otherness" and his self-awareness of this fact made him a perfect fit to play of these age-old mytic structures.

So yeah... a thoroughly fascinating book! Though I am a bit suprised that Bullitt would recommend a movie that throws as much shade on Sylvester Stallone as this one.:D





Well I can't talk about Arnold forever. So I guess I'll just squeeze in another mega-post of movies watched while I'm here. This one is dominated by the more obscure though, containing more curiosities and hidden gems than usual.

But lets start with the famous stuff: Kurosawa! I watched The Bad Sleep Well and... I found it one of his weakest pictures. The storytelling is just so opaque, brimming with exposition and laborious to follow. I think it's a testament to just how much I love Kurosawa's sense of direction that I actually liked it quite a lot still. The dude just had such... skill! Dat composition, bro! The actors inhabit their characters really well too. Mifune plays it very reserved than usual, letting his inner strength bring the dynamism to the scene, through it's contrast with every one else who is more outgoing, but it works.

Speaking of Shakespear adaptations... Cagney did one! I am of the opinion that if those two names should clash then I should be forced to watch it. Sadly, I was fooled into thinking he was a main character. But the play is an ensamble so I should really have seen that comming.

Said adaptation is A Midsummer Nights Dream, brw.

Well it was one whimsical and frivolous little romp. That's sort of it's weakness and strength. All the actors really submerge themselves in the sheer outlandishness of their roles... even the children! (the madcap nature of their performences got me a bit worried). Cagney's part is really so rambunctious that you get to find out excactly how many muscles in his face that he can stretch at once. Visually it's pretty cool to look at -- yet nowhere near as striking as some of the stuff from the silent age.

Having been denied a proper Cagney-dosage, I went online that same night and saw what other famous folks had done in the year 1935. Ended up seeing Whipsaw with Spencer Tracy. He plays an undercover cop on a roadtrip with a female thief played by Myrna Loy. After a rather tip-tap start they became quite a dynamic duo -- trading cool lines and black-and-white stares back-and-forth. Myrna kind-of got the star-treatment in how the filmmaking went, but Tracy kept up with her.


As an desert to the Noir-banquet that I went on last mega-post, I saw Impact. It's a very good movie, finely-told, engaging in that pure, classical sense. It concerns a wealthy industrialist, a tiger at work yet a kitten with the wife. Said wife and her lover attempts to have him killed. They world thinks him dead yet he survives and in his despair at the marital betrayal settles anonymously in a small midwestern town.

I know that the question of "best femme fatale" is brimming with notables but gosh-darnit Helen Walker throws her hat into the ring with her two-faced performance in this movie. The contrast between her solemn sorrow and giddy excitement for murder is great to watch. Ella Raines is splendid as the good-girl as well (I remember her being a real firecracker in Tall in the Saddle to boot). Are these two ladies on some sort of "most underrated actresses of the 40's/50's" list or what?

Just to milk the Noir-angle for all it's worth, I saw an interesting and surprising hybrid, Siren of Atlantis. As mentioned I spend most of my cinematic worshipping among the B-picture pantheons, and Maria Montez is a consistent source of real fun in that regard. This was one of those lost-civilization, adventure flicks. But, suprisingly, it escaped genre-conventions and played out in a more Noir-ish style instead. The blend was quite seamless actually and really good.


I've had a Hitchock dry-spell these last handful of mega-posts. Clearly this is an error in need of fixing. So I dug into his really early career and saw Sabotage and The Lodger.

I don't have a lot to say about Sabotage, except that it was another splendid Hitchcock showing with his boss-level directing and storytelling. And how about that Sylvia Sidney lady, eh? That woman can emote sadness like something primal. I noticed her excellent mastery of these emotions in Fritz Lang's Fury and she brough an A-game to this picture as well. That's a woman whom can tug on heartstrings when she's down.

The Lodger was more cool than emotional, and while not as good as Sabotage it was still a high-quality flick. Hitchcock manages some pretty iconic images in this picture, like the chandelier swinging back-and-forth as the protagonist stomps around on the top-floor, or his introduction with the scarf. It was also fun to see the genesis of some of Hitchcock's personal ticks. Like his fascination with "The Wrong Man" scenarios (though my foreknowledge of that sort of ruined the suspense).


Speaking of film-masters whose absence have been too great for my mega-posts, King Hu! I saw my fifth flick of his, Raining in the Mountains. It's about a score of characters that journey to a Buddhist monastary where a succession is about to take place, many of them yearning to steal said temples holy scroll.

First, this is a pretty picture, a real pretty-faced one. King Hu integrates the beauty of nature into his composition better than ever before. Second, it's relatively light on the punch-y, kick-y stuff. Instead an air of black humor dominates the flick. It's all rather reminiscent of Hu's earlier stuff, holding-off on the Wuxia, a fascination with Buddhism and it's rites and orders, an abundance of diffrent characters... and so on. It's also fun to see the stable of actors that he uses return in every film.


Uhh... what else? Oh I saw a movie about bullfighting, Blood and Sand from 1941. It was one of those rise-and-fall, rich-and-poor, Samson-and-Delilah type of stories. It was also one of those movies that was kept afloot by that glossy, old-school Hollywood-Epic type of feeling those movies can inspire. It was better visually than narratively so to say (the opening 30 minutes is mostly some of the most overt macho posturing you'll ever see). The afromentioned Delilah-character is played by Rita Hayworth (I had just watched Gilda so I wanted more of her). Her scenes of being a cold-blooded spider-woman that drains the main character of all his machoism and spunk are great and stand-above the rest of the film. Like... there is a scene where the protagonists wife comes over and humbly begs Rita to leave her husband alone, and Rita responds to this by summoning said protagonists as if summoning a bull and has him kiss her in plain view of his wife. Then as he realizes what she's made him do she smugly strolls away like a well-fed cat. That was just... DAMN!

I've also seen the 1922 version with Rudolph Valentino, but I didn't find it very memorable.



Lastly -- just for the weirdness of it all -- Uncle Europe is going to tell you guys about one of the luniest sci-fi films of the 50's that I've seen, Red Planet Mars from 1952. It's about an American scientist that develops a radio-transmitter which can communicate with Mars. Simultaniously, the Soviets have an ex-Nazi finished with similar tech. Communications are established and the Martian side starts devulging information about their society and techology.

Now, in normal sci-fi films of the decade, this is the preqursor to invasions by saucer-men, humongous insects, or strangely earth-like amazon-women. Instead, this film focuses on how Martian natural resources ("cosmic energy") causes the Western economy to collapse, since it'll render coal and oil obsolete. Naturally the Soviets with their state-control economy and information-secrecy take this development with good humor. They watch with glee as the West eats itself up from the inside over these revelations. Until... and I swear I'm not bullshiting here... The Martians reveal that their Supreme Leader is GOD himself -- and that they are Christian Martians! The reveal sends shockwaves through the atheist empire that sees the communists overthrown and the Patriarch of Moscow installed on the throne instead. America feels mighty fine about itself in this moment. But then the ex-nazi in question arrives at the protagonists house and unveils that he was the puppetmaster behind it all... which convinces the protagonists wife to suicide-bomb themselves (rather sexily) in order to save this new religiosity that has swept through the world from disenchantment by the truth. And then, of course, God actually arrives through the radio-device in the end.

Man... instead of tackling belligerent saucer-men the movie decides to use this premise to explore themes of Mars, the Cold War arms-race, Religious fevour, Free-market capatalism vs a State-run one, the influence of Ex-Nazis, and how the Communist east can be overthrown with faith. It's one of the most bizarre concoctions that I've ever seen when it comes to involving real-world politics and issues of the day. And it's all delivered with that straight-faced 50's earnestness -- which serves to make it feel more unreal. Holy hell that was a weird flick. :confused:
 
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