Serious Movie Discussion

Discussion in 'Mayberry Lounge' started by Bullitt68, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. Bullitt68 Senior Moderator

    Bullitt68
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    Reboot.

    The original OP from Mr. HuntersCreed:

    The list of the original thread regulars' 25 favorite films, a nice gauge for any newcomers to see where/how their taste falls in line with that of the posters who make up this thread.

    Unfortunately, this part of the OP requires the addition of a new name, but this is the spot in the thread where we had reserved space to acknowledge the passing of Kansas (regarding the poster Kansas (aka StillInKansas)), one of the earliest and most frequent contributors to serious movie discussion. Sadly, two more posters have since been added to the SMD in memoriam: The earliest contributor, the TS himself, HuntersCreed (http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/rip-hunterscreed.3240777/), and edco76 (http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/serious-movie-discussion-xli.3215313/page-11#post-118457941).

    Kansas, HuntersCreed, and edco were great friends of this thread, and they will be fondly remembered by all of us.
     
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  2. Bullitt68 Senior Moderator

    Bullitt68
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    @HUNTERMANIA: These Black Swan videos are for you.











    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9WK4j7mZCA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yfj9oiQyc8

    There are also some cool videos for The Wrestler:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD2W5yW5TPk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-4Vbo77pHo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nflZeQpsgvI

    And then Aronofsky was on a cool directing roundtable:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49oZmT6Pif4

    He's a much smarter and generally cooler guy than I'd imagined. I figured he'd be a pretentious dork but he's a very clear-headed straight shooter. Granted, that fucking scarf he wears doesn't help his cause, but I really like listening to him talk. Wherever revisiting his movies was on my metaphoric priority list, it's higher now.

    Look at this, @Flemmy Stardust. New school SMD posters doing an old school movie bet :cool:

    [​IMG]

    Not only am I not a Spike Lee fan, I'm pretty much a Spike Lee hater, but I love He Got Game. That father/son relationship was so intense and Denzel crushed that role.

    We're agents of chaos, shadow. But if you spend enough time in here, you'll get used to it.

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. HUNTERMANIA God alone.

    HUNTERMANIA
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    Great Aronofsky interview, @Bullitt68 - the way he talks about interpreting the end of the film and why he refuses to explain it is exactly why I love his films. I'll watch the other ones you posted as well. Thanks!
     
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  4. Rimbaud82 Brown Belt

    Rimbaud82
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    Sticking with the Buddhist theme, today I watched the Korean film Why Has Bodhi-Dharma Left for the East? The film is about three different Buddhist monks, an old master, a younger monk and a small boy. It was absolutely brilliant, visually and in terms of mood it reminded of The Lonely Voice of Man by Aleksander Sokurov. The film was really beautiful and I read the director was a painter, which makes sense. Since the last film I watched dealt with essentially the same themes (since they are both Buddhist films about the nature of life) I couldn't help but compare them in my mind as I watched, and though I really liked Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter...and Spring as well, I thought this was much better. It was much more subtle and for some reason, felt more natural, even though the style of this one was much more 'difficult' with long takes and little dialogue. In Spring, Summer... the 'real' world is treated as something fairly negative I thought (the apprentice runs off with the girl against the advice of his master, only to eventually kill her out of rage/passion) whereas this film treated it as the more complex issue that it is (the younger monk is filled with regret/doubt over his decision to leave his family and his blind mother). There is the idea that seeking enlightenment shouldn't mean hiding yourself from the world forever, which is what the younger monk is told by an old ascetic who lives high in the mountains but who has attained enlightenment/liberation and decided to come down from the mountain.

    Yesterday I was actually listening to a podcast about Zen Buddhism (Son Buddhism in Korean) which explained how it differed from other forms of Buddhism. Basically the emphasis is on achieving sudden enlightenment through practice and meditation, rather than gradual 'step by step' enlightenment through by reading texts and so on. There is also an emphasis on personal insight. So it was interesting to see this in the film. It also has a lot of images/symbolism without explicitly stating what it's all about at times, while the long takes and silence give the viewer time to reflect on it, that's one reason it really reminded me of Sokurov (and Tarkovsky too, by extension). For instance you have a scene where an ox escapes into the escapes into the forest and is chased by the young boy, then at the end of the film you have a shot of the boy as a man walking calmly beside an ox. It's hard to do the film justice, but I highly recommend it :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. BisexualMMA Don't Put My Name in the Name of Steroids!

    BisexualMMA
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    RIP HC. Hard to take issue with that Top 25 list.
     
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  6. Bullitt68 Senior Moderator

    Bullitt68
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    I figured you'd get a kick out of them. The one with him and Mickey is really good. Mickey doesn't come in until about halfway through, but it's really cool seeing the way the two of them interact. You'll also really dig the director roundtable where he talks about his thoughts on the MPAA, the role that film school can play in one's career, and his difficulties dealing with studios.

    I didn't actually watch the Black Swan videos, though. I figured I'd save those for down the road when I revisit that one. I'm not sure when that'll be, but I know what'll speed up the process...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I think it's very easy to take issue with shit like Fight Club, The Big Lebowski, or Oldboy being anywhere near it.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. BisexualMMA Don't Put My Name in the Name of Steroids!

    BisexualMMA
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    None are in my top 25, but they're quality movies. I took the point of the OP to be that you guys wanted to avoid Transformers, forgettable comic book movies, Twilight, etc...

    I don't think The Big Lebowski is the Coen brothers' best movie, let alone top 25 all time, but it brings something to the table other than the explosionfests you seem to want excised from the discussion.

    Like I said, not my top 25, but someone has to miss the mark really badly with their judgments before I begin to be bothered about it.
     
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  8. Bullitt68 Senior Moderator

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    With the OP, HuntersCreed definitely wanted to discourage knuckleheads, for which we will all be eternally grateful. With the top 25, though, it was simply a tally of the regulars' favorite movies. That so many people liked Fight Club, The Big Lebowski, and Oldboy so much that they even showed up on the top 25, let alone Fight Club showing up at #2, made me very disappointed in my fellow SMDers.

    [​IMG]

    Fight Club isn't all bad, though. If nothing else, it provided great parody material.

     
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  9. HUNTERMANIA God alone.

    HUNTERMANIA
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    Lol! Ok, I keep forgetting, I'm actually looking for a TV show to watch right now. I'm putting on Burn Notice - I swear on my life I will binge watch this show. The last 3 days I've been bouncing around from show to show and I didn't even think of it. I couldn't get into anything and I don't want to rewatch something.
     
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  10. Bullitt68 Senior Moderator

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    Hey, @Joseph Budden: As the Refn expert, what do you think of the Pusher movies? I'm watching an interview with Mads Mikkelsen and he's talking about Pusher, and then I looked it up on IMDb and noticed he was in both the first one and the sequel. I think Hannibal is one of the best things ever, and after being so impressed by Mads in it, I've been meaning to work my way through his career. I had no idea he'd crossed paths with Refn, though, so now I have a reason to watch Refn's stuff. I'd be curious to get your take on those movies.
     
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  11. Bullitt68 Senior Moderator

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    You'll get the reference once you start watching, but just know you've now stepped into the ring of trust.

    [​IMG]

    If you're like me, you'll be hooked by the opening scene. If you're not like me, you'll be hooked at the latest by Episode 4 (that ending!). If you're not hooked by Episode 10 with Lucy Lawless, then you suck, but you still have to watch at least the first two seasons if you want me to watch Black Swan. As I said to you a while back:

    Maybe it'll sweeten the deal if I say that two seasons will get you Black Swan and every additional season you watch will get you one additional movie of your choosing for me to watch. However, since you've been dragging your feet on this, I'm putting a clock on this deal.

    1) If you watch the whole series before the end of the year, I'll watch Black Swan for the first two seasons and five additional movies for the five additional seasons after Season 2.

    2) If you watch the first two seasons by the end of the year but not the rest of the series, then I'm only watching Black Swan.

    3) If you don't watch the first two seasons by the end of the year, then I'm not watching Black Swan unless you power through and finish the whole thing.
     
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  12. HUNTERMANIA God alone.

    HUNTERMANIA
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    Deal! I'm on episode 2, I'm starting to dig it. Sometimes I just get stuck at the beginning of something and if I'm not immediately drawn in I'll resist it. I don't have anything else to watch though besides stuff I've already seen multiple times, so I'll definitely get through this.


    @Bullitt68 do you enjoy the Star Wars universe at all? Even if you didn't like the movies, the show The Clone Wars is actually like really good. I think it's way better than any of the movies. I've only watched it once, will definitely watch it again though (after I get through a few seasons of Burn Notice ;) )

    5 episodes in and I'm really enjoying the show. I guess I didn't like it initially because I don't typically like shows that are so fast-paced, like to me that signals that it's bad, but this is clearly great. The only thing I don't understand... how are the FBI guys following and keeping tabs on Mike and Sam is helping him and getting away with feeding them wrong information and all this crazy shit is happening? I don't mind it, it doesn't bother me, but that's the only part that doesn't make sense. I'm guessing everything will come together as the show goes on, though.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
  13. Bullitt68 Senior Moderator

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    Not even a little bit. I watched the original for the first time at some point in high school and barely made it through. I tried the next one and didn't make it through. I've never tried more beyond that. I really do think Bill Burr hit the nail on the head when he said those are movies you have to see as a kid. If you miss that childhood window and you try to watch them from a more mature perspective, they're just goofy.

    According to Wikipedia, "Star Wars: The Clone Wars is an American 3D CGI animated television series." I already don't like live action Star Wars. You think I'm going to like cartoon Star Wars?

    <{walkerwhut}>

    [​IMG]

    I like to think of it like the Bourne movies where the speed indicates how fast and on your toes you have to be to be a Michael Westen or a Jason Bourne. The editing and overall pacing aren't as frenetic as the Bourne movies, but they operate similarly. The difference is the way Burn Notice uses split screens and voice-over so that you're not just experiencing sensory overload; you're actually getting insights into Michael's mind as he strategizes ahead of missions or as he breaks down problems. Every time I rewatch the show, the editing blows me away. Very ambitious but handled in a way that's very smart and that adds to rather than detracts from the flow of information and the excitement of the action.

    I'm not really clear on what exactly you're asking here as I can detect three separate questions:

    1) How are the FBI guys following Michael (in the sense of how/why isn't Michael ditching them?)?

    2) How is Sam able to get away with feeding them bad intel?

    3) How are the FBI guys unaware of Michael's extracurricular activities?

    The easy answer to these is that the FBI guys are idiots, especially compared to seasoned spies and special forces guys like Michael and Sam. The FBI guys also aren't exactly gung ho about what they're doing. That dynamic evolves in an interesting way, though, so I'm not going to say too much.

    I had a feeling this might happen before you started watching, but it's so hard for me to talk about this show without watching it again myself :D

    One last thing: I know you've already started watching, and you may have remembered some of this and had it in mind already, but just to be sure, I wanted to reiterate the following:

    I watched the Pilot when it premiered on USA and I followed it for its whole run after that, and I knew as soon as I saw the opening scene that I'd be sticking with the show for as long as it was on, but Episode 4 is when I knew I was watching something special. That family dynamic is crucial to the show and to both Michael's past and his future. And the way shit like that is not only incorporated into the missions but proliferates in various guises (in this one, not only the father/daughter angle on the client side but also the brother angle on the criminal side), it indicates how smart the writing is and how complex these characters are. Then that ending, with Michael vanishing before the thank you. Gets me every time. And the craziest part is that the show just keeps getting better and richer from there.
     
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  14. Bullitt68 Senior Moderator

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    This is awesome. It's like it's 2006 again.

     
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  15. europe1 It´s a nice peninsula to Asia

    europe1
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    Haha. That makes me wonder how often that happens.:D


    [​IMG]



    Martian issues aside about bad endings and such, a question: you seem to talk about movies in a pretty binary form. Films are either duds or hits. Is this reflective of your true alien psychology or do you think in more of a spectrum normally? Arn't most movies just... average?

    Most popular movies that I am not very hot on (like Ghostbusters, Back to the Future, Casino, etc) I normally just think are fairly average to sit through. I usually don't think they suck.


    I understood that. Just didn't phrase myself carefully.

    Seeing films because of gifs is just the modern equivalance of seeing a film because of the poster art. It is, of course, the more pure way of hunting for films.:p

    [​IMG]

    It's increadibly difficult for me. There is just so much film-stuff in those movies that are so excellent that it gets hard evaluating and comparing the material.

    I think the tipping point for me was that I thought that Godfather 2 took a longer while to get going. And Pacino's first assasination in the dinner and the baptism scenes in the first film are just sooo damn good.


    I broke about the time he started talking about Year of the Dragon (like... 25 pages in). Put the book down and rewatched the film.:p
     
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  16. europe1 It´s a nice peninsula to Asia

    europe1
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    It's like certain events repeat themselves after a decade. As if MMA was cyclical in nature or something.

    [​IMG]

    Weird seeing Cro Cop as a grappler though. But fun to see that he is still evolving and changing as a fighter even at the elderly age of 42. He added some really good elbows too in his recent UFC tenure.
     
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  17. Rimbaud82 Brown Belt

    Rimbaud82
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    Earlier I watched not Out for Justice...

    I actually watched The Neon Demon @Joseph Budden. Visually it looked great, as I knew it would, but the plot was extremely odd by the time the film reaches the third half and I wasn't sure what to make of all that.
    I mean it's not hard to grasp the sort of things Refn was getting at, the vanity of the fashion industry/society in general, nature of true beauty and so on. So from that perspective a lot of the imagery made a lot of sense, the big cat in Jessie's room at the motel and on the wall at Ruby's house representing how Jessie is now the prey for all the predators of the fashion industry. But when they eventually kill her out of jealousy, eat her and bathe in her blood, I wasn't sure if this was meant to be literal (turning it into an actual horror film rather than a psychological one) or if it was meant to be read metaphorically. Are they actual monsters/witches/vampires or whatever? Anyway, I am not sure if I liked it more than Only God Forgives, but I guess it was quite good...some of it was interesting, but it seemed like a lot of scenes were simply their for shock value.
     
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  18. europe1 It´s a nice peninsula to Asia

    europe1
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    You saying you don't like the Madea movies? They seem right up your alley.:p

    Wait... did I just admit to having watched Madea movies? Shit that'll lower my street creed for sure...:(

    I vividly recall experiencing moments of absolutely night-black existential dread when I realized that Michael Jai White was in a Tyler Perry movie. Suicide dominated my thoughts for quite a while afterwards. It was right up there with seeing Tippi Hedren in Julie and Jack.


    You say that?

    Frankly, I did find it darkly humorous, heaving out numerous laughs, though it only started creeping into the film from about the midway point and didn't get overt until the end. When Amy has returned and greats her husband in the kitchen, prepearing breakfast and having fully embraced the sociopathic "cool girl" persona, the whole ordeal just turned surreal and prodigiously funny. That deadpan expression she greets him with was just to much for me.

    In Gone Girl, Fincher reveals in the perversity of his characters. They all have perverted inclinations to various extents. It's a theme of the film -- as well as how society dispositions itself towards these ubiquitous preversities (the media for instance having no qualms about putting forth the most outrageous theories about Affleck, and their viewers heartily embracing whatever depraved stories they tell. People just "naturally" assume that Afflack and his twin are into incest despite how unlikely and unsupported that is). To see this turned into something that torments the characters and cranking it up to eleven in the final reel elicited laughter from me. It's like they are trapped in the absurdity of their own world.



    You can both go jump down a well. Amy is awesome. Sometimes evil is just to fun, lovable and engaging for you as a viewer to root against it.

    #AmazingAmyDidNoWrong!:p



    My minds likewise drifted towards Stage Fright when I started realizing that the movie might be employing false flashbacks.

    That said, once thought of Stage Fright had been activated, I did start thinking about the theme of performance. Of acting as life. Of being forced to play a part. Life essentially being one big performance.



    Amy is not after genuine emotional intimacy. What convinces her to return to Affleck is his performance on the news. He lies to the camera and does so wonderfully. It grabs her by the heels and reinvigorates all the lust of romance she had for him.

    But she knows it's a lie. Affleck even tells her so. Being the sociopath that she is, real human connection isn't something that factors into her equation. She wants the picture-perfect, idealized marrige. Amazing Amy and her performance as the "Cool Girl" speaks to this yearning of achieving that. In the ending, she's not asking Affleck to love her. She's asking him to play the part. It doesn't matter that he would be lying in doing so. Love (as in genuine, heartfelt love) doesn't matter to her because as a sociopath she cannot relate to that anyways. All she can feel is the "performance" of it. She tries seducing him into doing this.

    The thing is, that sort of marital "perfection" is only achiavable through performance. Only by acting can a couple put on the veneer of a flawless marrige. It was Afflecks performance that made her fall for him in the first place. He takes her to the flour delivery, strokes his finger over her lips, creating a magically erotic moment that is the stuff of fairy-tales. It was those sort of performances that convinced Amy in the first place that Affleck might have the capacity to uphold her lofty standards for what marrige was supposed to be like.

    Amy says that Amazing Amy was something that started when she was young. It was something thought to her by her parents. They instructed her to seek perfection in her novels. This is what dejected her from ordinary human emotions and made her relate only to love and marrige on a conceptual level. Notice how "show-like" the search her parents organize for her is. It's like something out of a media event. They taught her to think squarely in those terms. To them, their daughters life is a show, and she internalized those feelings.



    EDIT: I can't say I fully agree with what I've written here. I just wanted to see what would happen if I went loco on the keyboard for a moment. But basically, I'm fascinated by the disconnect of Amy loving a "performance". That it was something inherently (and knowingly) false that brought her back to Affleck. As well of how the movie focuses on the "magical", performed flour scene to show when they fell in love.

    In the elevator -- when Amy finds out that Affleck is writting for a men's magazine -- she asks him not to play "those" tricks on her. But the thing is, he does. He knew about the flour delivery, and what erotic atmosphere it would conjure. And the move of drawing his finger over her lips to seduce her was not a spurr of the moment. It was a technique. Something pre-planned. He used the same technique on his young lover and probably dozens of other women. It's effective but not the stuff of idealized romances/marriges. Amy talk with the white-trash lady shows that she *thought* that that move with the fingers was something unique, intended only for her. And part of her anger comes from seeing something she *thought* was made only for her was also used on another woman.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
    Air Lats and Caveat like this.
  19. HUNTERMANIA God alone.

    HUNTERMANIA
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    @Bullitt68 if you liked the Star Wars universe at all and simply didn't like the movies, I would recommend the animated series, which is actually better than any of the movies, IMO. It's a gritty animated series, it's really good. But, if you don't like that universe you obviously wouldn't like it. I liked it because I enjoy the Star Wars universe and it expands on a lot of things - you learn a lot and they do so much more in that show than they could do in the movies. It's quite good.

    Did you see Mirko with the TD and sub victory last night? That was amazing!
     
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  20. Joseph Budden GTM Gym, Tan, Make #Elite Bets

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    opinion subject to change upon rewatch when the blu ray comes out this week, fianlly!!!! But I took it as a pagan ritual, where they consume her in an attempt to consume her beauty and essence. The bathing in blood goes along with that. All film we're reminded Ruby is naturally beautiful, its 'in her blood'. I actually had a tougher time deciphering the random lion lol but this film DEFINITELY needs a rewatch from me, and probably most, to truly grasp everything going on.

    Upon first watch it was basically equal to OGF for me. We'll see if that changes[/spoiler[
     
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