Serious Movie Discussion XXXIII

[Flemmy Stardust]

No problem. The ultimate quality level of the films doesn't matter; I'm supposed to be knowledgeable about movies, so when the big movies come out, I have to watch them at some point. This gives me the incentive to do it sooner rather than later, and positive or negative, at least I have an opinion now.

no one gave you Prometheus?

that's another i dont think you'll like, but i'd be curious to hear what you have to say about it.

 

[Bullitt68]

No, but if you want to lobby for it, ufcfan still has a pick left to give me.

 

[Bullitt68]

I can barely even bring myself to type this as it's still so shocking: Midnight in Paris was incredible, even better than The Artist and the best movie challenge pick so far. I hate Woody Allen with a passion and I also hate Owen Wilson and Adrian Brody, and somehow I still loved this movie.

I would've thought all of those obstacles would've been too much to overcome, but the powerful theme of nostalgia won out. I always connect to movies dealing with nostalgia, or with loss/regret, and these were all very potent in the film. I'm also finding I agree more and more with Allen's general philosophies even if I hate it when they're located in him specifically. Maybe it's just Woody Allen the person that I hate, not Woody Allen the artist. I loved Whatever Works, which was a Woody Allen movie where he was nowhere to be seen, and here I am loving another Woody Allen-less Woody Allen movie.

I also really respond to his hatred of pompous, pedantic, pseudo-intellectuals. Bubble-bursting is such a glorious art form, and there were some great moments in that respect in Midnight in Paris.

Extremely surprised, but I loved Midnight in Paris. Kudos, Mr. Allen.

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

I'm also finding I agree more and more with Allen's general philosophies even if I hate it when they're located in him specifically. Maybe it's just Woody Allen the person that I hate, not Woody Allen the artist. I loved Whatever Works, which was a Woody Allen movie where he was nowhere to be seen, and here I am loving another Woody Allen-less Woody Allen movie.

yeah, i liked it myself, and am pretty sure that's the reason why. He brings this awful, undeserved, cocky pessimism to all his characters that i find impossible to get behind, whereas Owen Wilson, like him or hate him, always has a surplus of positive energy.

watching Manhattan, I realized I kind of agree with a lot of shit he says too (except he praises Bergman in it) but i can't stand his delivery/voice/body language/etc. changing the vehicle to deliver those philosophies made a hell of a difference.

 

[ufcfan4]

I can barely even bring myself to type this as it's still so shocking: Midnight in Paris was incredible, even better than The Artist and the best movie challenge pick so far. I hate Woody Allen with a passion and I also hate Owen Wilson and Adrian Brody, and somehow I still loved this movie.

I would've thought all of those obstacles would've been too much to overcome, but the powerful theme of nostalgia won out. I always connect to movies dealing with nostalgia, or with loss/regret, and these were all very potent in the film. I'm also finding I agree more and more with Allen's general philosophies even if I hate it when they're located in him specifically. Maybe it's just Woody Allen the person that I hate, not Woody Allen the artist. I loved Whatever Works, which was a Woody Allen movie where he was nowhere to be seen, and here I am loving another Woody Allen-less Woody Allen movie.

I also really respond to his hatred of pompous, pedantic, pseudo-intellectuals. Bubble-bursting is such a glorious art form, and there were some great moments in that respect in Midnight in Paris.

Extremely surprised, but I loved Midnight in Paris. Kudos, Mr. Allen.

Then you should see Bullets Over Broadway and Match Point as well. Both are Allen-less woody Allen movies that I liked better than anything I've seen with him in it.

Bullets in fact has a lot of crossover with midnight in terms of its reflections on artists and pseudo intellectual bullshit so I think you will definitely enjoy it if you've never seen it. It also has a hilarious supporting cast with Tracey Ulmann, Jim broadbent, Jennifer tilly, and esp Diane Wiest/chazz palmentieri turning in funny performances.

Match point is just very different from Allen's usual territory and I think it's great.

On the movie challenge note I was going to go with

Zodiac- but then it occurred to me that I couldn't recall who in the SMD had or had not seen it. Im almost sure that you, flemmy, sigh, and aqua have seen it and commented on it but could be wrong.

Then I was thinking 25th Hour- just cause I really enjoy it and wasn't sure if you'd seen it yet. I think this is one of those films that I love to a degree that probably goes beyond it's actual quality (ie I'm sure many who watch it think it's good but not great) but I'd like to get your perspective.

But if you've seen both ill go with Prometheus out of respect to the man, Flem.

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

Then I was thinking 25th Hour-

ooh, that reminds me of Rounders. That'd be another good one for Bullitt.

But if you've seen both ill go with Prometheus out of respect to the man, Flem.

this works. probably get done quick too cause it's available on HBO On Demand.

team effort.

 

[aquamanpunch]

that lowbrow vs flemmy war was pretty funny even though i only read like 15% of it. worth finishing now or just redbox it later?

btw i finally watched La Femme Nikita for the first time and it was pretty tight. had a lot more heart than i thought it would.

also, pretty sure kill bill volume 2 is my least favorite tarantino now. it's his most talky to a fault flick, shit gets actually kinda boring at times and in the end it leaves you feeling unsatisfied considering the buildup. at least with the overflow of inane dialogue in death proof it fit for the type of movie he was trying to make. also read the screenplay for kill bill and he cut out some pretty cool sequences that coulda been pretty great on screen, doh.

ooh, that reminds me of Rounders. That'd be another good one for Bullitt.

 

[Michaelangelo]

Has anyone seen Darjeeling Limited? I really enjoyed The Life Aquatic and had high hopes for this one. Unfortunately it left me disappointed. The film could have been much more than it was. A boring plot and the pacing was awful. I didnt connect with the characters which I'll blame on the writing more than anything . Wes Anderson can do a lot better than this.

 

[F[o]rged]

I demand that Bullitt go through with the The Social Network pick. I really wanna know what he thinks of it.

 

[Bullitt68]

The King's Speech was nothing special. Boring at times, good at others, enjoyable overall but pretty forgettable. The fact that it won Best Picture over Inception and that the director won Best Director over Nolan is ludicrous beyond words, and while I haven't seen any of the other performances from the Best Actor category that year, just sticking with Inception, I feel Leo did a better job than Colin Firth. No idea what about The King's Speech made it the darling of the Academy, and I have no idea what planet people who think any aspect of the film was better than any aspect of Inception are from, but I'm at least thankful it was a decent film.

The best part of the film was Geoffrey Rush, who I've always liked. Any points in the film that exceeded the average (his first meeting with Firth and then near the end where he's sitting in Firth's chair trying to piss him off especially) were due to his performance, which was very deserving of the Best Supporting Actor nomination.

changing the vehicle to deliver those philosophies made a hell of a difference.

QFT.

Then you should see Bullets Over Broadway and Match Point as well. Both are Allen-less woody Allen movies that I liked better than anything I've seen with him in it.

Good to know. I can't foresee it happening anytime soon, but if there comes a time I decide to give Allen a real chance, I'll keep those in mind.

But if you've seen both ill go with Prometheus out of respect to the man, Flem.

I've seen both, so Prometheus it is. To save me the trouble of looking shit up, how exactly is this connected to the Alien franchise, if at all?

ooh, that reminds me of Rounders. That'd be another good one for Bullitt.

Already seen it. Don't remember shit, but I for sure watched it.

also, pretty sure kill bill volume 2 is my least favorite tarantino now. it's his most talky to a fault flick, shit gets actually kinda boring at times and in the end it leaves you feeling unsatisfied considering the buildup. at least with the overflow of inane dialogue in death proof it fit for the type of movie he was trying to make. also read the screenplay for kill bill and he cut out some pretty cool sequences that coulda been pretty great on screen, doh.

Really surprised to hear you so down on that one. Kill Bill Volume 2 gets better and better every time I watch it. In fact, while Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, and Jackie Brown are his best, coming from a more youthful place of energetic inspiration, Kill Bill Volume 2 is his most assured and mature film. It's the most adult of all of his films, IMO, the most heartfelt, the most emotionally-centered. As much as it's quintessential Tarantino, it really stands apart from his filmography, and I mean that in the best possible way.

I demand that Bullitt go through with the The Social Network pick. I really wanna know what he thinks of it.

I'm sure it'll be there on my next library run, and I'll be sure to post about it once I watch it.

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

I've seen both, so Prometheus it is. To save me the trouble of looking shit up, how exactly is this connected to the Alien franchise, if at all?

it's a definitive prequel. Wayland Co., androids, and other connections to material from Alien.

 

[Bullitt68]

So I finished by first batch of movie challenge picks.

The Guard was surprisingly good. I vaguely remembered trailers, but other than that, it was never on my radar and I never had any plans on ever seeing it, but I'm glad I did. Very odd tone, kind of slow pace, but the writing was fantastic and Brendan Gleeson and Mark Strong were both hilarious. The attempted hit scene with Gleeson and David Wilmot was my favorite scene, just marvelously written and played. The ending was kind of weird, though, sort of Inception-style ambiguity that felt out of place and didn't really make sense. What are your thoughts on the ending, BAM?

Four Lions was nowhere near as good as The Guard. Conceptually, it's a hilarious premise, but actually watching it for 90 minutes wasn't as much fun. Some parts were funny, but most of it was boring and stupid. The ending did pick up, but not enough to take the film out of meh territory. That said, I did laugh hysterically when the one guy tripped on the bombs and blew himself up :icon_chee

And then last night, having finished the first batch of movie challenge picks, I had some free time, so I rewatched Manhunter and The Silence of the Lambs. It'd been a number of years since I'd seen either (longer for the latter), and my opinions on both have changed. Manhunter, while still an indisputably excellent film, isn't as great as I'd remembered it, whereas The Silence of the Lambs, while still a tremendously overrated film, is far better than I'd given it credit for.

Despite Heat and Collateral being FAR superior, Manhunter is the most aesthetically pleasing of all of Mann's films. The locations he used, the colors, the cinematography, it's jaw-dropping. And I still really dig the music, from the original score, which is really creepy and used expertly, to the kick ass '80s jams that have the exact right sound for the moment and even sync up to the movie lyrically. I was never enamored by Brian Cox's Hannibal, and here I was not only not really impressed with his performance but also really noticed how sloppily the scenes with him were written, almost like Mann felt obligated to include him when he really would've preferred to cut him out entirely (which could've actually worked pretty well given how compelling Tom Noonan was), which brings me to my next point: Noonan was criminally underutilized. He doesn't show up for nearly an hour, and even when he's there, there's so little time devoted to seeing him "at work" and to appreciating his psychosis. This is the type of film that could've used an extra hour, allowed Mann more breathing room to really flesh out the hunting aspect of the title, explore Noonan's stalking, maybe actually include a murder sequence rather than starting the film after the fact, and also playing up the cat-and-mouse game between him and William Petersen. Still, any shortcomings are considerably outweighed by how brilliantly the film is shot and scored and how incredible Tom Noonan is.

The Silence of the Lambs, on the other hand, went up quite a bit in my estimation. I always remembered it as being almost intolerably boring, and while its slowness is still a definite criticism, I found the film much more absorbing this time around. Similar to my complaint about Noonan being underutilized in Manhunter, obviously there's the feeling that Anthony Hopkins was underutilized, but while that was always a complaint, it wasn't as frustrating this time because, for the first time, I really appreciated the characterization and performance of Ted Levine as Buffalo Bill. The lotion scene is really unsettling, watching him get noticeably uneasy with his captive's terror, but then becoming fascinated by her "natural" femininity and trying to copy it by echoing her screams, just fucking creepy. However, it is, of course, Hopkins who steals the show. I still find his escape anti-climactic, and from an action standpoint, incompetently directed, but all of the dialogue scenes between him and Jodie Foster are superb, especially their first interaction. Hopkins is utterly hypnotic in that first scene, his eyes are so expressive, and you can see the changes in register in his eyes as he goes from charming to predatory.

Anybody watching Hannibal, definitely (re)visit these two if you haven't. You'lll spot a lot of references and you'll get some new/fresher insights into the characters. And, conversely, anybody who likes one or both of these films who's not watching Hannibal, definitely start watching it.

 

[Sigh GunRanger]

I think you would like Match Point most of all. I love the way it plays with the expectations of romantic, and crime movies. It's also way better than Crimes and Misdemeanors, of which the side-plot in that movie, is the main plot in MP.

 

[Shot]

And then last night, having finished the first batch of movie challenge picks, I had some free time, so I rewatched Manhunter and The Silence of the Lambs. It'd been a number of years since I'd seen either (longer for the latter), and my opinions on both have changed. Manhunter, while still an indisputably excellent film, isn't as great as I'd remembered it, whereas The Silence of the Lambs, while still a tremendously overrated film, is far better than I'd given it credit for.

Despite Heat and Collateral being FAR superior, Manhunter is the most aesthetically pleasing of all of Mann's films. The locations he used, the colors, the cinematography, it's jaw-dropping. And I still really dig the music, from the original score, which is really creepy and used expertly, to the kick ass '80s jams that have the exact right sound for the moment and even sync up to the movie lyrically. I was never enamored by Brian Cox's Hannibal, and here I was not only not really impressed with his performance but also really noticed how sloppily the scenes with him were written, almost like Mann felt obligated to include him when he really would've preferred to cut him out entirely (which could've actually worked pretty well given how compelling Tom Noonan was), which brings me to my next point: Noonan was criminally underutilized. He doesn't show up for nearly an hour, and even when he's there, there's so little time devoted to seeing him "at work" and to appreciating his psychosis. This is the type of film that could've used an extra hour, allowed Mann more breathing room to really flesh out the hunting aspect of the title, explore Noonan's stalking, maybe actually include a murder sequence rather than starting the film after the fact, and also playing up the cat-and-mouse game between him and William Petersen. Still, any shortcomings are considerably outweighed by how brilliantly the film is shot and scored and how incredible Tom Noonan is.

The Silence of the Lambs, on the other hand, went up quite a bit in my estimation. I always remembered it as being almost intolerably boring, and while its slowness is still a definite criticism, I found the film much more absorbing this time around. Similar to my complaint about Noonan being underutilized in Manhunter, obviously there's the feeling that Anthony Hopkins was underutilized, but while that was always a complaint, it wasn't as frustrating this time because, for the first time, I really appreciated the characterization and performance of Ted Levine as Buffalo Bill. The lotion scene is really unsettling, watching him get noticeably uneasy with his captive's terror, but then becoming fascinated by her "natural" femininity and trying to copy it by echoing her screams, just fucking creepy. However, it is, of course, Hopkins who steals the show. I still find his escape anti-climactic, and from an action standpoint, incompetently directed, but all of the dialogue scenes between him and Jodie Foster are superb, especially their first interaction. Hopkins is utterly hypnotic in that first scene, his eyes are so expressive, and you can see the changes in register in his eyes as he goes from charming to predatory.

Anybody watching Hannibal, definitely (re)visit these two if you haven't. You'lll spot a lot of references and you'll get some new/fresher insights into the characters. And, conversely, anybody who likes one or both of these films who's not watching Hannibal, definitely start watching it.

I'm glad that you enjoyed Silence of the Lambs more. I enjoy that movie a lot, specifically for Hopkins and Levine

I agree that pacing is definitely one of its weaker aspects, some parts feel stagnant and forced. Lecter's relationship with Dr. Chilton always felt thin to me. It wasn't developed enough to really see the point to it. I get it that Chilton has an ego issue with Lector's intelligence but it never plays out in any significant way. Just feels tacked on. although I love Lecter seeing him step off the plane at the end.

I feel that the reveal at the end with Lector is really well done. I remember watching the movie in my teens for the first time and wanting to vomit once Hannibal sat up in the ambulence and pulled the dudes face off his.

Get around to watching any of my picks?

 

[Bullitt68]

I agree that pacing is definitely one of its weaker aspects, some parts feel stagnant and forced. Lecter's relationship with Dr. Chilton always felt thin to me. It wasn't developed enough to really see the point to it. I get it that Chilton has an ego issue with Lector's intelligence but it never plays out in any significant way. Just feels tacked on. although I love Lecter seeing him step off the plane at the end.

It definitely felt forced just so they could get that joke in at the end with the "having an old friend for dinner" bit. His character could've literally disappeared after Foster sent him packing in the beginning.

I feel that the reveal at the end with Lector is really well done. I remember watching the movie in my teens for the first time and wanting to vomit once Hannibal sat up in the ambulence and pulled the dudes face off his.

I kind of fucked myself over on that one since I read the Wiki's for all of the books and then the movies once Hannibal got going and, although I didn't remember seeing it, I read about how he escaped wearing the guy's face and I wished I hadn't read that before rewatching it, although the whole thing was just so lazy and poorly done that I doubt it would've made that much of a difference.

Get around to watching any of my picks?

Not yet. Just a shitload of BAM's picks.

 

[Shot]

It definitely felt forced just so they could get that joke in at the end with the "having an old friend for dinner" bit. His character could've literally disappeared after Foster sent him packing in the beginning.

Indeed. Still, Hopkins delivering that line was enjoyable for me even if it hollow.

I've been really enjoying Hannibal as well. The visuals in that show are awesome. Very unique, especially the usage of colors. Mads Mikkelsen and Hugh Dance are killing it.

I read all the books and watched all the movies a couple years back. Manhunter and Silence of the Lambs were really good but Hannibal (the film) was awful and Red Dragon was medicre to the core even though i like a lot of the cast members (Fiennes, Norton, Hoffman, Keitel.

I started watching Hannibal Rising when it first came out couldn't get through it.

 

[KOQ24]

Indeed. Still, Hopkins delivering that line was enjoyable for me even if it hollow.

I've been really enjoying Hannibal as well. The visuals in that show are awesome. Very unique, especially the usage of colors. Mads Mikkelsen and Hugh Dance are killing it.

I read all the books and watched all the movies a couple years back. Manhunter and Silence of the Lambs were really good but Hannibal (the film) was awful and Red Dragon was medicre to the core even though i like a lot of the cast members (Fiennes, Norton, Hoffman, Keitel.

I started watching Hannibal Rising when it first came out couldn't get through it.

Hannibal is underrated
Only weak film in that series is Hannibal rising

 

[Bullitt68]

With all the Scream talk of late and the consistent praising of Matthew Lillard, when I saw his name on a movie showing on HBO, I automatically DVR'd it, and it turned out to be pretty fucking funny. It's called The Pool Boys. Typical "summer fun" movie with a kid about to go to Harvard who hangs out with his Harvard-grad cousin (Lillard) who, as it turns out, dropped out of Harvard and is not rich but is merely the rich people's pool boy, and as the kid's Harvard scholarship is riding on him getting a great job and making money and landing a scholarship, they hatch a scheme to turn a rich dude's house into a brothel, and as you might expect, hilarity ensues :icon_chee

Funny characters, some really funny scenes of comedy hijinks (with Lillard delivering both great lines and some bits of physical comedy), a surprising amount of nudity considering that's been criminally lacking ever since the '80s heyday of comedy boobage, and a fucking hilarious little cameo bit from Tom Arnold.

I've been really enjoying Hannibal as well. The visuals in that show are awesome. Very unique, especially the usage of colors.

The aesthetic is very close to Manhunter, not so much in the perfect geometric compositions but definitely in the use of color and the surreal visuals conveying the inner workings of Graham's mind. The music is also used in a very similar fashion, sort of eerie sounding tones that don't so much underscore the visuals as they drive to something like a crescendo of terror.

Mads Mikkelsen and Hugh Dance are killing it.

Definitely, and my man, The Fish, is dominating Jack Crawford

I read all the books and watched all the movies a couple years back. Manhunter and Silence of the Lambs were really good but Hannibal (the film) was awful and Red Dragon was medicre to the core even though i like a lot of the cast members (Fiennes, Norton, Hoffman, Keitel.

I'm actually contemplating grabbing Hannibal and Red Dragon on my next trip to the library. Only saw the former once right when it came out and remember nothing except one scene with Hopkins standing next to Ray Liotta with the top of his head cut off, and only saw the latter once on TV and was so disgusted with how inferior it was to Manhunter that I never went back.

I started watching Hannibal Rising when it first came out couldn't get through it.

I forgot they even did that, but reading up on the book, it makes for some potentially bad ass flashbacks for the show if they ever go down that road.

 

[theskza]

I kind of fucked myself over on that one since I read the Wiki's for all of the books and then the movies once Hannibal got going and, although I didn't remember seeing it, I read about how he escaped wearing the guy's face and I wished I hadn't read that before rewatching it, although the whole thing was just so lazy and poorly done that I doubt it would've made that much of a difference.

That scene is awesome. One of the best escape/thrilling scenes I've seen.

With all the Scream talk of late and the consistent praising of Matthew Lillard, when I saw his name on a movie showing on HBO, I automatically DVR'd it, and it turned out to be pretty fucking funny. It's called The Pool Boys. Typical "summer fun" movie with a kid about to go to Harvard who hangs out with his Harvard-grad cousin (Lillard) who, as it turns out, dropped out of Harvard and is not rich but is merely the rich people's pool boy, and as the kid's Harvard scholarship is riding on him getting a great job and making money and landing a scholarship, they hatch a scheme to turn a rich dude's house into a brothel, and as you might expect, hilarity ensues :icon_chee

Have you seen SLC Punk? He shows off some good range in that. The movie is pretty entertaining as well. It also has Jason Segal and Til Schweiger, who are great in it.

 

[Bullitt68]

That scene is awesome. One of the best escape/thrilling scenes I've seen.

I was taken out of it from the get-go when he hides the piece of the pen in his hand and then the cop cuffs his hands behind his back and somehow doesn't notice he's clenching something to pick the lock. All these crazy ass security protocols for this notorious nutjob and you're not going to pay attention to his cupped hands? They could've at least cuffed him through the bars frontwards and had him spit the piece into his hands for the sake of plausibility.

And then him biting the one guard was stupid, plus the result from the bite was really lame make-up wise, and then when he nightsticks Charles Napier, he's got less of a menacing bad ass thing going and more of a flaming dork thing going, it's literally so awkward watching him swing that nightstick, he looks like a six-year-old girl. They could've at least had him do it A Clockwork Orange style and have him dancing to the music and using the nightstick like a conductor, reigning down blows on the beats. And speaking of the music, I also didn't like the way they switched out the classical music to the annoying and overbearing score and then back to the classical music. I would've liked it better if they would've kept the classical music going the whole time.

Just a lot of shit that got in my way of appreciating the two undeniably cool parts of the cops finding Napier all strung up and then him escaping by wearing another person's fucking face. Which reminds me: I posted that karaoke clip from The Cable Guy a little while back, and watching The Silence of the Lambs also reminded me of this :icon_chee

Have you seen SLC Punk? He shows off some good range in that. The movie is pretty entertaining as well. It also has Jason Segal and Til Schweiger, who are great in it.

I watched SLC Punk a LONG ass time ago. Thanks both to Scream and Senseless (which he's fucking hilarious in, even if I don't find the movie half as funny as I did when I was 10 :redface, I was a huge fan of Lillard's, and that was the next film with him I watched. I don't remember anything from it now except that I didn't like it for whatever reason(s). I'd like to check it out again, though.

He also kicked ass in an SVU from a few years ago where he played Carol Burnett's creepily devoted nephew.