Serious Movie Discussion XLII

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Damn Manos: The Hands of Fate and Jack Frost (Morozko) are some terribly weird and weirdly terrible movies. Made for good MST3K episodes though. Without the riffing I think these films would have been unwatchable, yet I laughed more at The Room by its self than at these films being riffed. What do you guy think makes a bad movie good?

Almost all the reviews of Jack Frost on imdb seem to be from Eastern Europeans arguing that's it's actually a really good movie, and that Americans can't understand it because they don't know the mythology. Someone said these Slavic folktales are "on par with Kalevala, Ramayana, Beowulf, Iliad." I can't really agree with that since those are epics, the stories in this movie seem more like Snow White, Cinderella etc. simple fairy tales. One reviewer even tried to defend the movie being featured on MST3K by saying that they even riffed on Hamlet... Not a very good point since the version of Hamlet they watched is widely regarded as one of the worst Shakespeare films.
 
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Watched this a few weeks ago. Quite a weird one but I liked it on the whole. It's kind of hard to describe without spoiling it, starts off as a film about an ex-hitman with PTSD (domestic troubles etc.), a gritty crime drama basically, before ending as a kind of occult thriller/horror. There is a constant uneasiness throughout. Something like the Wicker Man crossed with a British gangster film lol.
 
So guys, what are the best episodes of MST3K?

Man this question is even harder than "what's your favorite movie". There is so many good ones.

Manos: The Hands of Fate

I wonder if in Spanish-speaking countries that title is translated as: Hands: The Hands of Fate:p

Damn Manos: The Hands of Fate... are some terribly weird and weirdly terrible movies.

Yeah Manos is just an ungodly hodgepodge. I mean... who even came up with this idea? A supposed satyr (no really, Torgo was meant to be a satyr due to his bow-leggedness) serving some wizard-master that worshipps an underground demon in the middle of God-knows-where. If you look at the ideas and production that went into this film then it's virtually unique in it's bizzareness. And it has a real 70's ending to despite being made in the 60's.

It really is the work of a man who is so estranged from anything that can be called "mainstream" as one could possible be.

Got to love Torgo though. His freaking theme music makes me chortle with laughter every time I think of it.

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Manos: The Hands of Fate

You should see the Rifftrax Live Riff of this film. It's one of the funniest things I've ever seen. Way funnier than even the MST3k episode.

on imdb seem to be from Eastern Europeans arguing that's it's actually a really good movie,

While a lot of those Soviet flicks, (Frost, Sampo, The Sword and the Dragon, Magical Voyage of Sinbad, etc) definitively have better production values and more imagination in them than the other films feutured... that isn't really saying a lot, you know?

I thought Frost was at least watchable. It has enough fairy-tale powder in it to keep my interest.

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Not a very good point since the version of Hamlet they watched is widely regarded as one of the worst Shakespeare films.

Dear lord that one was unimaginatively dull. It's widely considered one of the worst episodes just due to how full of nothing it is.
 
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Watched this a few weeks ago. Quite a weird one but I liked it on the whole. It's kind of hard to describe without spoiling it, starts off as a film about an ex-hitman with PTSD (domestic troubles etc.), a gritty crime drama basically, before ending as a kind of occult thriller/horror. There is a constant uneasiness throughout. Something like the Wicker Man crossed with a British gangster film lol.
I liked it a lot. I had no idea what I was getting to. When it started going into horror film territory I got really scared. The ending was a mind fuck. I've been meaning to watch it again and check out more films from the same director.
I wonder if in Spanish-speaking countries that title is translated as: Hands: The Hands of Fate:p
haha I did find that a little redundant. And the god/demon the guy worships is named Manos? wtf
A supposed satyr (no really, Torgo was meant to be a satyr due to his bow-leggedness)
That actually makes sense I guess. Explains his lustful nature. Didn't come across too well.

The funny thing is I thought it could have been an ok movie if it was made with some competence.
Got to love Torgo though. His freaking theme music makes me chortle with laughter every time I think of it.

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Bit of a clumsy pass there
I thought Frost was at least watchable. It has enough fairy-tale powder in it to keep my interest.
I really hated it.
Dear lord that one was unimaginatively dull. It's widely considered one of the worst episodes just due to how full of nothing it is.
I'll have to see it some day since it's Hamlet. Doesn't seem possible that Maximilian Schell could be a bad Hamlet, but I can understand how Shakespeare done poorly can be unimaginably dull.
 
I liked it a lot. I had no idea what I was getting to. When it started going into horror film territory I got really scared. The ending was a mind fuck. I've been meaning to watch it again and check out more films from the same director.

Yeah the ending was surprisingly scary, I am not a big horror film guy and didn't quite realise it was going to go down that route either. As for other Wheatley films, I loved A Field in England and thought High-Rise was a bit of a mess but alright in parts...been meaning to watch more of his stuff myself, heard Free Fire is pretty good.
 
A supposed satyr (no really, Torgo was meant to be a satyr due to his bow-leggedness)
I found something funny about this.

To portray his character Torgo as a satyr, John Reynolds wore a metallic rigging under his trousers made out of wire coat hangers and foam by costar Tom Neyman.[4][6] Reynolds unintentionally wore them backward, meaning the effect conveyed made him look nothing like a satyr and more like a man with oversized knees who had difficulty walking.[12][13] No one ever corrected Reynolds' mistake on-set.[14] Fake cloven hooves should also have been part of Reynolds' satyr costume, but he is instead clearly shown wearing boots in several scenes, which can even be seen in the Mystery Science Theater 3000 version. The film's dialogue never mentions the fact that Torgo is a satyr, and none of the characters seem to notice anything unusual about his appearance.[4]
 
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Watched Naked earlier. Absolutely fantastic film to be honest, surprised I only came across it today when my mate recommended it to me. David Thewlis is absolutely brilliant as the main character Johnny, what else can you say. As for the film itself, well it is excellent, but to say I 'enjoyed' it would be a tad wrong as the whole thing is, in general, hopelessly bleak and relentlessly depressing. It is a black comedy so there are some funny scenes, Johnny's character is also likeable because of his humorous quips even though he is actually a complete cunt for the most part, clearly he is well-educated and well-read, but fundamentally you get the sense that he is someone who is lost in modern society (maybe that's because of his intellectualism). Worryingly...in that sense he is actually somewhat relatable and that is the general feeling behind the film. It is completely cynical, and though I don't necessarily share the same world-view as Mike Leigh must have done when he directed it, I definitely related to a lot of it....it is funny, but you almost feel bad for laughing. It is highly recommended anyway, if you are in the mood for it.
 
Dany's character arc never felt cohesive to me.

Like, take the segment she has where she tells John Snow how she has been sold as a brood mare and risen from slavery. She clearly showing that she has heated emotions over the ordeal. But it rings false. Dany doesn't strike me as a person who carries around a trauma. She's to commanding and self-assured. The anger only surfaces when she's forced to talk about it on-screen. It's not something she carries around at all times.

Plus she seemed pretty happy with Khal Drogo last we saw him. So her emotions seem all to straight-forward for the life she's lived. She could have formed some sort of retroactive trauma based on those experiences based on what she has seen since then but the show hasn't really sold us on that.

See, to me, Dany always falls apart when she's talking about herself. I can understand someone like her having formalized her opinions based on the experiences she's had. But whenever they talk about having internalized, personalized those experiences it seems rather false. I can buy Dany hating slavery but I can't buy Dany's emotional trauma over being enslaved or slavery in general. Some part of me wishes that she was played more aloof, more like a Great (Wo)man, able to comprehend the evil of these things yet staying clinical on a personal level (or just be played with said demons). On the other hand Emilie Clark already plays her pretty aloof these later seasons but she isn't doing it very well I think. I'm sorry, the girl just lacks charisma.
Sorry Hunter. Unleash the dogs of war in reply if you want.<Moves>

Not sure I agree with that, the current season has perhaps shifted her portrayal more towards confident and regal as the character exists less in isolation with Jon and Tyrion around and is also provided something for them to play off of but prior to that I think as with Jon there was always a degree of self doubt to her. Her story hasn't just been a series of challenges to overcome in terms of gaining power but also in how to exercise it. Some degree of narcissism(which is a natural cover for self doubt) in response to the belittling experiences plus showing that someone can be empathic but also brutal if there moral view is too simplistic.

Really I would argue the main bent of the story has been playing off her and Jon against characters who are much more self confident showing just how destructive the latter can be in excess untempered by empathy, Stannis being the most obvious example. I strongly suspect that some other form of moral test is in the characters future as well pushing towards a final development and maybe playing against some existing negative qualities.

Performance wise as well I think its actually worked having Clarke and Harrington finding there feet as actors during the show slowly building up more of a sense of gravitas that's very much inline with their characters.
 
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Not sure I agree with that, the current season has perhaps shifted her portrayal more towards confident and regal as the character exists less in isolation with Jon and Tyrion around and is also provided something for them to play off of but prior to that I think as with Jon there was always a degree of self doubt to her. Her story hasn't just been a series of challenges to overcome in terms of gaining power but also in how to exercise it. Some degree of narcissism(which is a natural cover for self doubt) in response to the belittling experiences plus showing that someone can be empathic but also brutal if there moral view is too simplistic.

Really I would argue the main bent of the story has been playing off her and Jon against characters who are much more self confident showing just how destructive the latter can be in excess untempered by empathy, Stannis being the most obvious example. I strongly suspect that some other form of moral test is in the characters future as well pushing towards a final development and maybe playing against some existing negative qualities.

Performance wise as well I think its actually worked having Clarke and Harrington finding there feet as actors during the show slowly building up more of a sense of gravitas that's very much inline with their characters.

Really feel like Emilia is doing good work this season. Harrington has been awesome for a long time. Very good chemistry between the characters too. One of the things that has fueled this season has been their interaction. All the build up of these characters' different storylines and they came together surprisingly early on in the season and it really had a big moment feel when they did.
 
Really feel like Emilia is doing good work this season. Harrington has been awesome for a long time. Very good chemistry between the characters too. One of the things that has fueled this season has been their interaction. All the build up of these characters' different storylines and they came together surprisingly early on in the season and it really had a big moment feel when they did.

I think its always tough get the interaction between the audience avatars(Jon, Dany, Tryion, Ayra, Sansa, Jamie maybe Davos) down as previously the story has been focused on these characters with more relatable "modern" personalities interacting with characters who were more obviously of the setting. As you say though they do seem to have good chemistry and indeed I think the degree of setup they've been given this season probably hints that some (doubtless tragic)romance is going to be linked into the climax with the Walkers/Dead.
 
Just watching predator (for the 15th time) and found out that billy died in real life

Sonny landham
 
Finally got around to watching that Holy Motors DVD I'v had knocking around for months...

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Denis Lavant playing "Mr. Oscar" driving around Paris in a large limo donning various different disguises to act out a series of characters, some dramatic, some bizarre with the implication its being filmed(or is it?) for some unknown audience. Ends up basically being a good setting for a lot of arty vignettes although if your prepared for the obscure wider narrative they are generally pretty lively/immediate taken by on there own rather than being too obtuse.

 
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Finally got around to watching that Holy Motors DVD I'v had knocking around for months...

rs-150274-20121018-holy-motors-624x420-1350577647.jpg

Denis Lavant playing "Mr. Oscar" driving around Paris in a large limo donning various different disguises to act out a series of characters, some dramatic, some bizarre with the implication its being filmed(or is it?) for some unknown audience. Ends up basically being a good setting for a lot of arty vignettes although if your prepared for the obscure wider narrative they are generally pretty lively/immediate taken by on there own rather than being too obtuse.



I thought this was decent, enjoyed parts of it anyway. Can't remember if I posted my thoughts in here or not.
 
Not sure I liked it to the same degree as some critics but it is actually something that's probably more accessible on an immediate level than many would expect. Beyond that I spose you could say it was looking at the nature of art, whether having an audience is important or not.
 
Hitman's Bodyguard is fucking hilarious. Havent laughed at a good funny action movie in a long time.
 
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