Serious Movie Discussion XLI

[BeardotheWeirdo]

I think contemporary European Film criticism can be partly thanked for that. At the time, there was this idea that for a film to be truly great and important, it had to tackle concrete, social issues. And these voices were coming from left-leaning, often Marxists, film-scholars. The films of Elio Petri are a prime example of a guy who operated in that milieu. He made highly socially conscious films. And this trickled down to genre cinema as well. Zapata Westerns for examples are just brimming with political undertones about revolution, class-conflict and the relationship between the First World and the Third World. And unlike "serious films", populist entertainment like Zapata Westerns could avoid state censorship and bannishment, becuse they were just trash entertainment.

The downside with this type of Film Criticism is that it was narrow-minded. Masterminds of cinema like Sergio Leone for example was initially dismissed by these film scholars as simple-minded populist entertainment because he didn't explore the themes they wanted. It wasn't until Duck, You Sucker were they finally began giving him his dues, and that was because Duck, You Sucker contains political undertones, but it's odd that Leone would get this acknowledgement for a film that definitely wasn't his best. Likewise, other masterpieces like Jean-Pierre Melville's Army of Shadows was denounced simply becuse it wasn't Marxist politically. And Army of Shadows is one of the most brillian and moving films I've ever seen.

Well said. In Italy (during the 60's and 70's) I imagine there was a larger market for radical films as well. Fascism lead to a rise in Anarchists, Marxists and radicals in that part of Europe. After the fall of Fascism in Italy and Germany, it would've been too controversial for those countries to censor the radical left-wingers, and some great movies were produced.

Francesco Rosi is another great radical writer/director from that time period. He's another one who worked to expose the corruption in his country, and in the world. I've only seen a few of his movies, but I enjoyed them all. I plan on watching more of his movies over the coming months.

I watched a German film called "The Edukators" (2004) the other month that was about two anarchists who break into ultra-rich people homes just to re-arrange the furniture in very creactive ways. They would leave them notes saying things like "You have too much money". It had a lot of the same elements that you would get in those older movies, but it turned into a story of a twisted love triangle, and they were forced to kidnap one of their victims, which lead to a good examination of the "Stockholm Syndrome". It featured one of the actors from the Baader-Meinhof Complex.

A also watched another German movie, "Even Dward started Small" a month or two ago. Werener Herzog's first full length movie. I'm still kind of speechless. You would never be able to make a movie like that in in modern times. It pretty much showed why Anarchism is a bad idea. There's huge portions of society that can't be responsible and intelligent when it comes to serious matters. We can overthrow those in power, but what then? There were so many disturbing scenes in that movie that forced you to look into the nature of mankind, power, and in turn yourself. Just, wow. Herzog is a genius.

I've seen one British movie that deeply examined the effects of radical ideology/free thought. Ginger & Rosa (2012) starring the amazing Elle Fanning who gave an oscar-worthy performance. Another deeply-moving, thought-provoking film, that reminds radical people that freedom is not all it's cracked up to be, and it's not the solution. As Emma Goldman used to say "Anarchy is responsibility" and freedom and responsibility don't go hand-in-hand. Power corrupts, but so does Freedom, as per usual the key is to find a balance.

Haha. Yeah I guess that depends on how you define a "war movie".

I was being a little bit sneaky. It wasn't meant as an insult to FMJ, it was meant to hype up Stalingrad which IMO deserves a lot more credit than it deserves from movie buffs, and fans of war films.

Man I hate Siskel and Ebert. Bunch of overrated, narrow-minded reactionaries. They even gave thumbs-down to FMJ for christ sake! Not to mention other milestones like The Terminator. They where the kind of people that where so square and high-strung that they couldn't even notice the bloated, obvious political satire in films like Death Race 2000, (which I think is one of the funniest films of all time), simply becuse it came from the exploitation crowd.

Joe Bob Briggs, that the critic for me. He may be sleazy, crude and uncouth but he's completely lacking in pretension and ardently loves movies.

Haha, as I typed that I figured it would upset you both, but I don't know any other critics (apart from Jay Sherman ) so I stuck with it. After I thought about it, I also became curious, do they hate Siskel & Ebert? probably, but I'll never know if I change it.

I usually just read IMDB reviews. A lot of the reviews are horrible, but you can learn a lot about a movie by knowing who it offends and bores as well. Some of them are so ridiculous that they`re hilarious. The Hateful eight has a ton of 1/10's on imdb. I knew it was going to be amazing after reading some of the ridiculous reviews, the haters literally had nothing real to complain about... which isn't to say the movie was perfect, but they weren't smart enough to figure out the real flaws in the film, beyond "it was slow"

Bullitt is actually a professional, academic film scholar (despite his at-times Martian taste in film). I'm just a guy with to much freetime on my hands.

Great write-up on Stallingrad, btw.

I run a landscaping/lawn-care business in Canada. I have lots of free time during the winter. I've been watching lots of movies lately. I appreciate your reviews and opinions on those movies.

Have you seen Max Manus, or "The Heavy Water War"? I haven't seen much of Scandinavian TV/Movies but I enjoyed those two a lot.

Aww man, that kind of world-building is crack-cocaine for me. Immortal Joe literally creates his own religion so to ideologically control the war-boys and to give them a world-view that justifies their kamikaze tactics. Without it, the war-boys would just look like video-game henchmen, throwing away their lives with high-risk tactics just becuse the script said so. But when you add that societal element, a religion that emphasizes death and martyrdom, their actions become justifiably human.

Well, I might have to watch it again closely, one of these days. That guitar player though... No one could even hear him and he only played when they were moving... what was the point? And that bungee-cord fight-scene... I couldn't take it seriously after that.

 

[europe1]

No one could even hear him and he only played when they were moving... what was the point?

Most armies through history has used some sort of music or chanting when doing the business of war. On a simple psychological level it makes performing the task easier. So I suppose that in the movie the war-boyz could hear it -- especially since the guitar-guy was standing behind massive speakers, and had drummers backing him up.

And that bungee-cord fight-scene... I couldn't take it seriously after that.

One of my critisism of Fury Road was, that at it's most extreme, it all felt very unreal, as if basic physics where being ignored. The bungee-cord fight scene was the best example of that.

What's so superb about Mad Max 2: The Road Warrior (one of my favorite films of all time) was that they did the truck-battle scene completely real. That meant that you could literally see the trepidation on the actors faces as they jumped between vehicles and the truck. They would stumble, act hesitant, and adjust their balance. This was even integrated into the narrative of the fight. In Road Warrior, people died due to simple clumsiness, they slipped or fell or simply overreached themselves and lost their balance. That gave the action a great sense of verisimilitude.

apart from Jay Sherman )

Unfortunately, we never got The Critic in Sweden. So when he showed up on Simpsons -- I though he was an original character. I believed that for over a decade, so when I figuered out that he had a show of his own I was absolutely flabbergasted.

But yeah, I activey disliked both Siskel and Ebert. They just trashed so many uncountable classics and gave really inane reasons for doing so. Blade Runner, Blue Velvet, The Thing, and so many more.

A lot of the reviews are horrible

Ahh yes IMDB... where 10's and 1's are the norm.

"Even Dward started Small"

Herzog's first feature was about a bunch of dwarfs? Yeah, that sounds like him alright.

And about all the movies you mentioned -- unfortunately I haven't seen a single one. At this time I'm mostly trying to catch up with older cinema.

 

[Joseph Budden]

And now time for a post that isn't as long as a novel

Check out The Invitation homies. Great film that just released.

 

[theskza]

Dope isn't Dope outside the soundtrack. It's not funny, yet tries hard to be. The characters are likeable enough. I couldn't get over the tone, though. There's some heavy shit that's treated as punchlines. No weight to anything, really. Pretty disappointed, because there's obvious potential. Funnish, but not the masterpiece it's prop up as.

 

[KOQ24]

Dope isn't Dope outside the soundtrack. It's not funny, yet tries hard to be. The characters are likeable enough. I couldn't get over the tone, though. There's some heavy shit that's treated as punchlines. No weight to anything, really. Pretty disappointed, because there's obvious potential. Funnish, but not the masterpiece it's prop up as.

Yeah,I found the Humor to be spotty as well, but the characters saved it for me.

Saw Good Dinosaur.
Pretty mediocre overall.The Movie is clearly geared towards children, but there's some shockingly (and unnecessary) violent shit happening a few times.
The movie establishes a past in which the big Asteroid missed Earth and Dinosaurs adapted, but while some have become human-like others seemed to be stuck in Predator mode 65mil. yrs ago.

And the realistic animated backgrounds are clashing with the cartoonishly animated characters.
The story is highly unoriginal also.

It's better than Cars/Cars 2 , but thats it as far as Pixar goes.

6/10

Also saw Taxi Tehran (won the Golden Bear in Berlin).
An interesting Mocumentary.The Film is pretty blunt in its criticism of Iran (socially and politically),which is surprising,considering the Director still lives in Iran and is suffering under a work ban already.
His Films are basically shot anarchy-style.

Its sometimes a little clumsy in getting its message across though.

Not quite Ashgar Farhadi territory, but very much worth watching.

7.5/10

 

[Ricky13]

Loved Midnight Special (recommended for those that like Mud and Take Shelter).

 

[Spawned_Fighter]

the meet the psychic trope in these one night, spontaneous love movies appeared once again in Already Tomorrow in Hong Kong

couple in the movie close to zero chemistry

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

I didn't totally hate BvsS.

 

[theskza]

It's just v

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

You're just v

 

[HUNTERMANIA]

Put on Battlestar Galactica because I've gotten sick of music as background noise for the moment. This show is really great. I'm only on the first episode (I skipped the 3-hour miniseries opening - i've seen it before), but since my perception of life has grown, I see how much more this show reflects actual life... how many themes it hits on at once, it's really amazing. Definitely recommend this for anyone looking for something to watch.

 

[ufcfan4]

I didn't totally hate BvsS.

I thought it was entertaining. Definitely significant problems with it, but overall I enjoyed it.

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

I thought it was entertaining. Definitely significant problems with it, but overall I enjoyed it.

Was completely overplotted to just arrive at Doomsday.

 

[BeardotheWeirdo]

Most armies through history has used some sort of music or chanting when doing the business of war. On a simple psychological level it makes performing the task easier. So I suppose that in the movie the war-boyz could hear it -- especially since the guitar-guy was standing behind massive speakers, and had drummers backing him up.

For sure, even today almost all armies still have drum corps. I was born in Scotland, I've seen the changing of the guard and one of the Royal Military Tattoo's live. They didn't play when the army was stopped, they only played when they were moving. You'd never hear those drums and the guitar over the roaring of the engines.

One of my critisism of Fury Road was, that at it's most extreme, it all felt very unreal, as if basic physics where being ignored. The bungee-cord fight scene was the best example of that.

What's so superb about Mad Max 2: The Road Warrior (one of my favorite films of all time) was that they did the truck-battle scene completely real. That meant that you could literally see the trepidation on the actors faces as they jumped between vehicles and the truck. They would stumble, act hesitant, and adjust their balance. This was even integrated into the narrative of the fight. In Road Warrior, people died due to simple clumsiness, they slipped or fell or simply overreached themselves and lost their balance. That gave the action a great sense of verisimilitude.

CGI will never look as real as the real thing. Those real scenes like that are epic. The bus scene from Police Story is a great example. In Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry they "attack" a car with a helicopter... for real, it's pretty crazy to watch. The stunts in Supercop were out of this world.

Unfortunately, we never got The Critic in Sweden. So when he showed up on Simpsons -- I though he was an original character. I believed that for over a decade, so when I figuered out that he had a show of his own I was absolutely flabbergasted.

But yeah, I activey disliked both Siskel and Ebert. They just trashed so many uncountable classics and gave really inane reasons for doing so. Blade Runner, Blue Velvet, The Thing, and so many more.

He was an original character on the Simpsons. Then about a year later (IIRC) Al Jean made a spin-off about him. Or was the spin-off planned in advance, before he did the "cameo" on the Simpsons?

I have the Critic on DVD, it's a highly under-rated show imo.

Ahh yes IMDB... where 10's and 1's are the norm.

Exactly. And 90% of the reviews are just plot descriptions with a rating. It's not so bad when you're reading reviews of the obscure movies. You tend to avoid the idiotic reviewers.

Herzog's first feature was about a bunch of dwarfs? Yeah, that sounds like him alright.

And about all the movies you mentioned -- unfortunately I haven't seen a single one. At this time I'm mostly trying to catch up with older cinema.

Yep, I was wrong, it was his second full-length film, "Signs of Life" was the first, which I haven't seen.

It's one of the strangest movies ever made probably, definitely the strangest movie I've ever seen. All the characters are played by dwarfs. It's about a bunch of patients at some sort of mental hospital. You never find out what's wrong with them but they all appear to be mentally handicapped.

Two of the dwarfs are being interrogated by the manager of the facility. He's tied one of them up in a chair in the office. A bunch of the other inmates don't like this so they stage a rebellion and try to free their imprisoned brother. After that it's 75 minutes of Mentally unstable/challegened Dwarf Anarchy. A bunch of the actors and animals got hurt in the process. To show his appreciation Herzog promised to jump into a spiny cactus upon completion of the film to show his understanding of what he put the actors through. And he did, he still has cactus spines embedded in his leg.

It was very hard to watch. The inmates have very squeaky high-pitched voices, they're constantly yelling and laughing maniacally all throughout the entire movie. They hurt animals, they show very cruel barnyard footage of injured animals being harassed and violently attacked by other animals. They may poison a pig to death, I'm not sure if that was real or not. They throw live chickens through plate-glass windows, they pick on and steal from the blind kids, they "crucify" a monkey (with rope not nails) but holy shit can you see the terror in the monkey's eyes being led around on a cross.

A large portion of the movie is dwarfs playing chicken with a real car. They put weights on the pedal and tie the steering wheel so it spins in circles, and then play chicken with it. One of them was run over but they didn't show that in the version I saw. They smash and burn with no thought of the future, with no plans for the future. They burn all the flowers and tear down trees because their masters loved them, much like how the Taliban blew up the old religious statues in Afghanistan because they weren't Muslim statues, to give one example.

It's disgusting, dark, and haunting but it's an allegory. All the horrible things they do with their new-found power are all things that mankind has done with our own power. We (as a society, through our governments) pick on the weak, and steal from the poor. We torture, exploit, maim and destroy all in the name of "progress"

It's the kind of movie I don't think I'll ever forget watching. It forces to you look deep inside of yourself, and question everything about society, freedom, rebellion, government etc.

 

[Joseph Budden]

Whoever posted the Nathan For You clip weeks ago, thank you.

This shit is hilarious. Been watching all the sketches on YT since then

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

Whoever posted the Nathan For You clip weeks ago, thank you.

This shit is hilarious. Been watching all the sketches on YT since then

That was me, and we are now buddies, Budden.

Still batting 1000.

 

[Prefect]

I have seen Star Wars force awakens eight times now. Twice in the theater (fell asleep during the first half the second time) and something like six times on DVD. It holds in opinion and I give it more respect than I did in the theater. The attention to detail and the sets really drew me in further. This really is a pretty film. I like Finn more than in the theater. Han Solo really do a great job. Chewbacca is funny. I don't find Han solo's son as grating with repeat viewings. I find it kind of funny that he isn't top banana and gets in a little quibble with a high ranking military guy, just like Darth did in Star Wars. I change my rating from s 7-7.5 to a 9. The sets really are special. I would put them a notch over lotr. It is nice to get away from cgi. It still feels a little overpaced, especially when compared to the first three. It is Star Trekked - Star Wars and not your Daddy's Star Wars but it is pretty good. It gets more things right than the first Star Wars move, VI new hope, did in my opinion.

 

[MacDuffle]

I have seen Star Wars force awakens eight times now. Twice in the theater (fell asleep during the first half the second time) and something like six times on DVD. It holds in opinion and I give it more respect than I did in the theater. The attention to detail and the sets really drew me in further. This really is a pretty film. I like Finn more than in the theater. Han Solo really do a great job. Chewbacca is funny. I don't find Han solo's son as grating with repeat viewings. I find it kind of funny that he isn't top banana and gets in a little quibble with a high ranking military guy, just like Darth did in Star Wars. I change my rating from s 7-7.5 to a 9. The sets really are special. I would put them a notch over lotr. It is nice to get away from cgi. It still feels a little overpaced, especially when compared to the first three. It is Star Trekked - Star Wars and not your Daddy's Star Wars but it is pretty good. It gets more things right than the first Star Wars move, VI new hope, did in my opinion.

Is that you, Jeff Davis?

Because Jesus' Balls on a Dinosaur, if that wasn't his exact story about trying to see Star Wars from the Harmontown podcast

 

[Prefect]

Is that you, Jeff Davis?

Because Jesus' Balls on a Dinosaur, if that wasn't his exact story about trying to see Star Wars from the Harmontown podcast

No. Do you have a link? I would be curious to hear how close my thoughts are to his.

I was thinking on why was it better on repeat viewings. I think it is overpaced and on repeat viewings, I think your brain starts screening stuff out and is not so overwhelmed with all the novelty and constant action. I think in the theater, I was so overwhelmed with action that I never had time to even look at the sets or think about the characters. I am not going to say the characters are deep but there is a little bit of subtleness that is easy to not see in all the action.

I sort of got the same feeling from Mad Max: Fury Road. I thought it was a great movie in the theater and saw it twice. I have probably seen it like 20-30 times on DVD (it was my 3 year old daughter's favorite movie for awhile) and my opinion of it has only grown. That is a tremendously pretty movie. Everything in that movie works from a visual point of view. The little CGI that was used doesn't remove you from the action, either.

 

[MacDuffle]

No. Do you have a link? I would be curious to hear how close my thoughts are to his.

He tells a story of how he fell asleep in the theater for the first half, kept trying to re-see it and was either drunk/tired every time so he'd forget huge chunks of it, and he'd have dreams that he was seeing the new Star Wars in theaters and falling asleep in his dream version, then he'd wake up and forget the first half all over again, so he wound up seeing it eight more times and he wasn't even sure if it was any good until he could get his hands on a DVD version, and would say things like "it's what the kids are into, Dan" in reference to it not being your "dad's" version of Star Wars

So yeah, I laughed