Secularism Under Attack: Alabama Senate passes bill allowing church to establish police dept.

[Tigger]

MAGA


Make Alabama Great Again


Or maybe 'MAG' is more appropriate since, well, Alabama has never been great


@Captain Davis @Tigger

I moved out of that God forsaken state years ago. Now I'm bouncing between Memphis and Nashville.

 

[Big_Chief_Stove]

Do you hate secularism? Are your kids not getting diddled enough at church because those stupid police keep butting in? Who are they to tell you when your children can have "jesus juice"?

Well people, Alabama has the problem solved.

http://whnt.com/2017/04/11/alabama-senate-passes-unprecedented-church-police-bill/

Alabama Senate passes unprecedented church police bill



That whole "separation of church and state" thing is for the birds, what kind of fairy would advocate that? Clearly the answer to all of our problems is to give the state power of law enforcement/force projection to fucking churches. What could go wrong?

Wait, Sharia Law! What Alabama apparently forgot is that if they give a police department to this christian church, they have to do it for all religious entities. That includes mosques, synagogues, and temples. The people most fearful of Sharia Law are so shortsighted that they're making it entirely possible for Sharia Law to become an institutionalized thing in their backyard. Sad!

Alabama, you've already taken a dump on voting rights, the sanctity of marriage, the Constitution, ethical behavior, and being a net contributor to the rest of the country.

Why do you hate America so much?

Might as well be sharia police

 

[jamel]

Went to HS up in Huntsville so I already know the damn deal.

Man, you want to talk about a Mall Ninja's wet dream?

You dont give places where the only outlets you can do is fuck, fight and play football this level of responsibility.


Just wait, they will fuck it up.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

What's your source for morality to define laws?

Common Law, our Constitution, Enlightenment ideals, group social dynamics, empathy and history.

 

[whougonnacall]

-Will this "police force" be required to investigate crimes?

-Will they collect evidence themselves?

-Will they be required to undergo legit police training?
-forensic training?
-Will they hand out speeding tickets?
-Arrest drunk drivers?
-Will they in fact do anything other than safeguard the school grounds from violence much like any normal security guard department at a university?

To awnswer your questions
-yes the crimes that really matter such as whos having sex with who and banning that rock and roll and dancing the kids are into.....damn u kevin bacon!!!!! My footl will be loose on ur ass son!


-yes using prayer and their own infallible judgement given to them by bible studies

-yes at least a whole weekends worth on how to turn the light on and off in the car,how to keep the uniform clean etc
Other than that itl be regular church goers who are also regulars at the gun range ! Yeee haaaaa

-science? Get on outta here with that fancy liberal b.s...world is 6000 years old and thats that son (spits tobacoo on ground)

-speeding what now ? Its alabama son that man going fast might be doing something important...like getting home to bang his daughter before his wife gets there

-drunk drivers ? how the fuck else u supposed to drive city boy?

-no wel be kicking satans ass by rounding up anyone who looks "outta town' ish , burning down the local libary (save any bibles first) and pulling people over so we can feel good about pushing em around

 

[Jim Bob]

Common Law, our Constitution, Enlightenment ideals, group social dynamics, empathy and history.

What if certain dynamics in a social group believe in cannibalism, rape, or pedophilia? Some regions think this is okay.

 

[Quipling]

What's your source for morality to define laws?

Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the wise?

 

[ShinkanPo]

Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the wise?

Do it!!!

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

What if certain dynamics in a social group believe in cannibalism, rape, or pedophilia? Some regions think this is okay.

Generally we would examine the need and social dynamics for such acts and weigh them against our empathy for the victims and the effects it would have on our society. Let's weigh your instances, what social dynamics and reasons would people have for these acts.

 

[Jim Bob]

Generally we would examine the need and social dynamics for such acts and weigh them against our empathy for the victims and the effects it would have on our society. Let's weigh your instances, what social dynamics and reasons would people have for these acts.

You have stated good things. People were able to fight for liberty in this country because Christianity empowered the individual. The other cornerstone of our culture is the Constitution. The United States is the Constitution. Without the Constitution, the United States would be a different country, and Americans would be a different people. This empowerment of the individual is unique to Western civilization. It has made the individual a citizen equal in rights to all other citizens, protected from tyrannical government by the rule of law and free speech. These achievements are the products of centuries of struggle, but they all flow from the teaching that God so values the individual’s soul that he sent his son to die so we might live. By so elevating the individual, Christianity gave him a voice. God is the one who instills right and wrong on our conscience.

 

[panamaican]

Generally we would examine the need and social dynamics for such acts and weigh them against our empathy for the victims and the effects it would have on our society. Let's weigh your instances, what social dynamics and reasons would people have for these acts.

That's setting up be a flawed argument. You're going to argue the social dynamics of those acts in fictional realities based on the principles and social dynamics of our current environment. It's intrinsically biased. You shouldn't, you have to assume that there is a justifiable local moral reason for those acts - what those reasons are doesn't matter.

If your principle is that morality defines laws then whatever the local morality is should be enough to justify the laws of that group. So, in that case, cannibalism, rape and pedophilia should be legal in that society. If society's morality changes then the legality will too.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

You have stated good things. People were able to fight for liberty in this country because Christianity empowered the individual. The other cornerstone of our culture is the Constitution. The United States is the Constitution. Without the Constitution, the United States would be a different country, and Americans would be a different people. This empowerment of the individual is unique to Western civilization. It has made the individual a citizen equal in rights to all other citizens, protected from tyrannical government by the rule of law and free speech. These achievements are the products of centuries of struggle, but they all flow from the teaching that God so values the individual’s soul that he sent his son to die so we might live. By so elevating the individual, Christianity gave him a voice. God is the one who instills right and wrong on our conscience.

I don't see it, Morality based on evolutionary survival, tempered with higher cognitive functions like empathy, inductive and deductive reasoning can provided a foundation without god. Many of the ideals that made America unique were born out of the European Enlightenment:

- Separation of Church and State
- The ideas of John Locke, which include life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
- Voltaire, Montesquieu, and Rousseau and their ideas concerning government and Democracy
- Inalienable human rights

Secularism and Enlightenment ideals will always be the cornerstone of western society.

 

[Jim Bob]

I don't see it, Morality based on evolutionary survival, tempered with higher cognitive functions like empathy, inductive and deductive reasoning can provided a foundation without god. Many of the ideals that made America unique were born out of the European Enlightenment:

- Separation of Church and State
- The ideas of John Locke, which include life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
- Voltaire, Montesquieu, and Rousseau and their ideas concerning government and Democracy
- Inalienable human rights

Secularism and Enlightenment ideals will always be the cornerstone of western society.

That does nothing to set up a moral framework for laws though. It only addresses freedom and liberty. Otherwise we can get into that this is okay for me to do but not for this group over here (cannibalism, rape and pedophilia) as examples. There have to be some moral absolutes. I don't think that you should have edited out the Constitution in your original post. Yes, the writers were Christians too.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

That's setting up be a flawed argument. You're going to argue the social dynamics of those acts in fictional realities based on the principles and social dynamics of our current environment. It's intrinsically biased. You shouldn't, you have to assume that there is a justifiable local moral reason for those acts - what those reasons are doesn't matter.

If your principle is that morality defines laws then whatever the local morality is should be enough to justify the laws of that group. So, in that case, cannibalism, rape and pedophilia should be legal in that society. If society's morality changes then the legality will too.

How does any society determine what is moral?

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

That does nothing to set up a moral framework for laws though. It only addresses freedom and liberty. Otherwise we can get into that this is okay for me to do but not for this group over here (cannibalism, rape and pedophilia) as examples. There have to be some moral absolutes. I don't think that you should have edited out the Constitution in your original post. Yes, the writers were Christians too.

Of course it does, we start with inalienable human rights and then base our laws to protect those rights. If we are guaranteed life and liberty then we make laws to protect life and liberty

 

[panamaican]

How does any society determine what is moral?

Collective agreement. But in reality, they don't. They don't decide what's moral, they decide the extremes of immorality. Morality is determined on an individual level.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

Collective agreement. But in reality, they don't. They don't decide what's moral, they decide the extremes of immorality. Morality is determined on an individual level.

How does one decide, is it completely arbitrary? What are the variables involved and how are they weighed. I have a theory myself but I'd like to see what yours is.

 

[panamaican]

How does one decide, is it completely arbitrary? What are the variables involved and how are they weighed. I have a theory myself but I'd like to see what yours is.

I don't think there's any specific variables involved. Every individual has their own sense of right/wrong and when their individual sense of right and wrong bump into other people's sense of right/wrong then some kind of resolution has to be put into effect. That resolution is the "law".

But that doesn't actually change their individual sense of right/wrong, it's changes if society will punish them for acting on it.

But I don't necessarily equate fear of consequences with the adoption of an actual moral position.

 

[Denter]

How does one decide, is it completely arbitrary? What are the variables involved and how are they weighed. I have a theory myself but I'd like to see what yours is.

Not arbitrary, but also not rational.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

I don't think there's any specific variables involved. Every individual has their own sense of right/wrong and when their individual sense of right and wrong bump into other people's sense of right/wrong then some kind of resolution has to be put into effect. That resolution is the "law".

But that doesn't actually change their individual sense of right/wrong, it's changes if society will punish them for acting on it.

But I don't necessarily equate fear of consequences with the adoption of an actual moral position.

What is this sense guided by? It must be guided by something or it would be completely arbitrary. What is our conscience based off of?