Second watch of Saul-GGG

[Seano]

Was Canelo being versatile backing up to get breathers for most of the fight?

In a way, I guess. Seems pretty smart to me but you're painting it as a negative.

 

[nac386]

I think going after Canelo early and investing more in the body is the way to go. A good deal of rounds Golovkin won by outworking Canelo - imo he shouldn't do anything to compromise that. He fought the perfect fight for him when he was able to get Saul along the ropes and box him without getting into Canelo's preferred range. You can tell he kept waiting for the uppercut to come back.

I think Canelo can do some things differently. Golovkin doesn't fight moving backwards; he defends well and resets to get his momentum going again. I think pushing Golovkin back gives Saul the opportunity to keep Golovkin from outworking him. Now Canelo himself doesn't look very good going forward and I don't expect him to score a lot of points that way, but he can at least keep GGG from continually mounting his offense and consistently looking like the aggressor. He doesn't have to do it a lot more, just enough to give himself the breathing room he wants in the middle of the rounds.

I think doing that ^^^ though relies on him figuring out how to fight more without expending more energy. He didn't look gassed on Saturday but he looked like a guy who was worried about it.

Canelo needs more gas, bottom line. He did not push GGG back very often because he did not have the gas tank to do so. He did not throw as many punches because he does not have a great gas tank when compared to a guy like GGG. Unless he can increase his workrate without gassing, he's in for a long night anytime he fights GGG.

 

[Seano]

I feel like you only watched Canelo, honestly.

I saw the same fight he did and if what you claim is true, we wouldn't have seen it a drawish sort of fight.

 

[Seano]

Canelo needs more gas, bottom line. He did not push GGG back very often because he did not have the gas tank to do so. He did not throw as many punches because he does not have a great gas tank when compared to a guy like GGG. Unless he can increase his workrate without gassing, he's in for a long night anytime he fights GGG.

That is true but I have to say that he boxed pretty damn smooth against Golovkin, even when he was gassed for those middle rounds. I think he really found his identity in that fight. He looked really complete to me.

 

[nac386]

That is true but I have to say that he boxed pretty damn smooth against Golovkin, even when he was gassed for those middle rounds. I think he really found his identity in that fight. He looked really complete to me.

He is a skilled boxer, and he countered well. But he gave up almost the entire middle section of the fight by only throwing 30-40 punches per round and putting himself on the ropes. He had a good gameplan, but he needs the gas tank to keep a guy like GGG from outworking him.

 

[Shoemaker]

Canelo needs more gas, bottom line. He did not push GGG back very often because he did not have the gas tank to do so. He did not throw as many punches because he does not have a great gas tank when compared to a guy like GGG. Unless he can increase his workrate without gassing, he's in for a long night anytime he fights GGG.

yeah that's why I had those last two sentences, there. That was more in response to people who says theres nothing he can do. Sure there is.

I think there's something to be said about the tradeoff to be made (energy expended moving forward to limit GGG's output, vs. energy expended defending against GGG's offense) but he's got to improve that. He's learned how to slow down the pace of a lot of fights but he's not as good as someone like Floyd. He can't fight off the backfoot and clearly beat an elite fighter who's out-throwing him 200 punches in the fight. Drop that down to 100 and it's manageable because of his defense (and it'll give him some more room to counter). Easier said than done though.

If Canelo wins the rematch, it will likely be a mix of him settling into the weight more (hopefully improving his cardio after clearly adding a lot of mass) and Golovkin getting chipped away more by time. While I think it would be smart for Golovkin to push the pace more early, he might not be able to do that come May of next year.

 

[Seano]

He is a skilled boxer, and he countered well. But he gave up almost the entire middle section of the fight by only throwing 30-40 punches per round and putting himself on the ropes. He had a good gameplan, but he needs the gas tank to keep a guy like GGG from outworking him.

He was trying to steal rounds late in the fight. Worked for Leonard. Sort of worked for Canelo. I've really become a fan of Canelo over his last few fights. He's the real deal.

 

[nac386]

I saw the same fight he did and if what you claim is true, we wouldn't have seen it a drawish sort of fight.

You wanted to know what GGG did in that fight, and I gave a pretty detailed account of what GGG did in there to win rounds as the fight went on. PUO responded with, "It didn't work very well." That's basically "Na uh!" It's a nonsense response that sounds like he might have missed a whole lot of what was going on during that fight.

 

[Seano]

You wanted to know what GGG did in that fight, and I gave a pretty detailed account of what GGG did in there to win rounds as the fight went on. PUO responded with, "It didn't work very well." That's basically "Na uh!" It's a nonsense response that sounds like he might have missed a whole lot of what was going on during that fight.

eh, it was a close fight and a classic "which style do you prefer" sort of fight. I favor the boxer myself, I usually do. I personally felt like I saw Canelo outboxing Golovkin and stealing rounds. There were close rounds. Anyone saying someone "clearly" won this fight is full of shit.

I thought Canelo made Golovkin look bad.

 

[nac386]

eh, it was a close fight and a classic "which style do you prefer" sort of fight. I favor the boxer myself, I usually do. I personally felt like I saw Canelo outboxing Golovkin and stealing rounds. There were close rounds. Anyone saying someone "clearly" won this fight is full of shit.

I thought Canelo made Golovkin look bad.

If this was a scoring criteria then Lara would be undefeated.

 

[Seano]

If this was a scoring criteria then Lara would be undefeated.

Poor comparison. Canelo is a much better offensive fighter than Lara.

 

[PUO3]

I feel like you only watched Canelo, honestly.

Not at all. Ive said countless times Golovkin could have gotten the nod.

 

[Sirwastealot]

Yea first watch i had GGG winning 7-5, second watch i'm not so sure. GGG missed a LOT, even though he was being aggressive he had a hard time landing clean. The commentators were always praising his aggression because canelo looked so tired and inactive in the middle rounds.

I gave 3 of the first 4 to canelo but i don't remember which one i gave G.
5-9 were GGG all the way, canelo may have edged one of them.
10 was clearly canelo again. 11 and 12 were close, with canelo starting very strong and GGG being more consistent. I'd prob give 11 to G and 12 to canelo.

It was a very close fight.

The only reason i'd still give a slight edge to GGG is because he was much more aggressive and active the whole fight. He might have missed a lot but ring generalship and aggression are part of scoring and he gets those points.

 

[Po]

Was Canelo being versatile backing up to get breathers for most of the fight?

Canelo was versatile despite backing to the ropes.

Ggg couldn't capitalize because of Canelo's defense and counter punching.
His gas tank was questionable. Probably ggg wore him down with his relentless attack.

 

[SBJJ]

Not at all. Ive said countless times Golovkin could have gotten the nod.

Agree it was a close fight. But like it or not the overwhelming majority believe GGG won. And it's near unanimous when it comes to fighters and trainers.

What has people pissed is that there was a lot of talk about a fix before the fight and Byrd was even mentioned beforehand as being corrupt. And then this happens. Like it or not, there is a feeling that Canelo is being given an upper hand without having to really work for it like the greats had to.

It's a shame because a close loss would have done no damage to him. In fact, he'd probably even garner more respect.

I understand judging is subjective. But the partisan crowd was cheering for GGG at the end. The vast vast vast majority of fighters and trainers believe GGG won and the majority of everyone does

 

[SBJJ]

By the way. I don't think Byrd is corrupt. I just think she is beyond incompetent and might even play favorites

 

[Rudeboyben84]

Canelo only outlanded GGG in one round. There is no case for him winning. He got put on the back foot and GGG was teeing off on him, how can you land less punches in nearly every round and win???

 

[JayE]

Canelo only outlanded GGG in one round. There is no case for him winning. He got put on the back foot and GGG was teeing off on him, how can you land less punches in nearly every round and win???

If we're going to take the punch stats seriously (something I'm not inclined to do), one way to interpret them would be to argue that they were within 5 punches landed for 10 of the 12 rounds, and that Canelo outlanded Golovkin in power shots in 7 of 12 rounds. When you factor in that, generally speaking, it was Canelo landing the more eye-catching shots throughout the fight, finding some way for him to win isn't exactly absurd.

Of course, you have to take the punch stats seriously to go with this line of argumentation, and it makes more sense to actually give an account of each round and justify scoring the round to one man or the other while referencing the scoring criteria instead of relying on numbers with no context, tabulated by two guys watching live from different angles.

 

[SBJJ]

Canelo only outlanded GGG in one round. There is no case for him winning. He got put on the back foot and GGG was teeing off on him, how can you land less punches in nearly every round and win???

Because u throw wider shots that look harder then they are. Canelo is slick as hell but he throws very wide shots that look extremely flashy and more powerful than they really are. While GGG shots are more compact. But don't look as powerful

 

[nac386]

Agree it was a close fight. But like it or not the overwhelming majority believe GGG won. And it's near unanimous when it comes to fighters and trainers.

What has people pissed is that there was a lot of talk about a fix before the fight and Byrd was even mentioned beforehand as being corrupt. And then this happens. Like it or not, there is a feeling that Canelo is being given an upper hand without having to really work for it like the greats had to.

It's a shame because a close loss would have done no damage to him. In fact, he'd probably even garner more respect.

I understand judging is subjective. But the partisan crowd was cheering for GGG at the end. The vast vast vast majority of fighters and trainers believe GGG won and the majority of everyone does

Yeah I was surprised that even the Mexican-heavy crowd was booing Canelo and cheering for GGG during their interviews.