School shooter stopped by good guy with a gun, Dixon IL

[irish_thug]

I mean, yeah, there's no doubt in my mind a lot of law enforcement departments need to mandate more firearm training. When I was in middle school a resource officer in our school district blew his toe off while he was cleaning his pistol. That probably counted as a line-of-duty injury and he retired with a medical pension

That's the problem. Training cost money and time. Every hour that an officer is on the range is an hour he's not on the road. Multiply the avarage hourly wage of a police officer in the united states of $26 times the 1.1 million LEOs and a little bit of weekly range time costs your tax payers 1.5 billion dollars.

 

[zebby23]

What ever happened to just killing yourself when you're unhappy? All these a-holes nowadays want to take everyone else with them.

School can be a tough place for an insecure teen.

 

[BangersAndSmash]

That's the problem. Training cost money and time. Every hour that an officer is on the range is an hour he's not on the road. Multiply the avarage hourly wage of a police officer in the united states of $26 times the 1.1 million LEOs and a little bit of weekly range time costs your tax payers 1.5 billion dollars.

I would rather pay the tax dollars and have a well trained police force over not paying the tax money and having them be incompetent. If that's 1.5 billion dollars over all the precincts in the country, that's not really all that much money.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

I don't think that's true.

While not a perfect example, tramendous's post on the first page of this thread is a fairly close example of the thinking I was referring to:

Lol what a shit set of circumstances where you need cops at school.

In this modern era, those who are traumatized in this world are seemingly determined to inflict their traumas upon the rest of the world. Soft targets are the most expedient way for those intent on inflicting evil to project their traumas upon as many others as possible. The only way to mitigate that risk is to have individuals prepared and equipped to meet those threats head on.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

Not really.

Really.

He was a good guy with a gun.

He was the only thing that could have stopped that bad guy with a gun from carrying out his acts further.

He's a trained law enforcement officer. I don't think many people are opposed to them carrying guns. I think it was more the "let the teachers carry" that people were opposed to.

There should be a stringent system of certification for any teacher that wishes to carry.

When I was in grade school, our physical education teacher was a former Marine Corps drill instructor during the Korean War. He would have been an ideal candidate for such a program.

Besides, the thing people are arguing against is the "only thing" part. It's certainly not the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun. There are ways to ensure that a bad guy doesn't get his hands on a gun in the first place. Background checks could be strengthened. Required training could be improved. There are quite a few measures that could be taken that fall somewhere in the vast chasm between "absolute prohibition" and "no restrictions", two positions which are often ascribed onto the other side of the debate by their opposition but which are rarely held in reality.

Unfortunately, none of the things that you've listed here will do anything to stop a bad guy with a gun.

Adding yet another measly law in the face of evil intent on causing harm may ease anxieties, but it does nothing to make anyone safer.

 

[spamking]

Any purchase you make with a credit or debit card is tracked. Anytime you use the internet, your data is tracked. I'm pretty confident you're not a fan of taxes or people telling you what to do, but you suffer through that because you don't really have a choice, right?

What does any of this have to do with further infringement of a right? Paying taxes is a necessity for our society to function. Being told what to do is a necessity for those of us with jobs/bosses . . . I "suffer through it" because I'm paid to . . .

Realistically, what is so bad about your guns being registered and tracked? It would make them easier to recover if they were stolen.

If I have to explain it to you in greater detail at this point I'm not sure you'll get it afterwards either . . .

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

I dont want someone to have to be competent with both. We already have teachers abusing kids and have bad teaching practices. You want them to have guns too? How long before the concealed carry assholes shoots that trouble maker who always freaks out and yells at the teacher.

If your objection boils down to "people aren't perfect", I'm afraid that's not a good enough reason to leave our schools as soft targets.

 

[BangersAndSmash]

There should be a stringent system of certification for any teacher that wishes to carry.

I can agree with this. I see much less of a problem with allowing teachers to carry if you are going to hold them up to a higher standard than just having a concealed carry permit. I would also prefer required training and practice as I've stated numerous times in this thread.

Unfortunately, none of the things that you've listed here will do anything to stop a bad guy with a gun.

They already have, but you never heard about it, because you're not going to hear about the kids who fail to get their hands on a gun and decide to give up on their school shooting plan. School shooters are real people, not villains from movies who are endlessly determined, resourceful, and devoted to hatching their evil scheme. More often than not, they are high school kids in mental anguish with very troubled mindsets.

Yes, some situations are going to arise where the laws fail to prevent the crime, that is, after-all, why we need laws. My problem isn't necessarily with steps taken to make school safer, but the refusal to admit that strengthening or creating new laws is helpful. It has proven to be so.

https://www.sciencealert.com/scientific-evidence-that-stricter-gun-control-works-saves-lives

 

[tramendous]

We should have military style checkpoints. Never know bout dem soft targets n sheeit

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

They already have, but you never heard about it, because you're not going to hear about the kids who fail to get their hands on a gun and decide to give up on their school shooting plan. School shooters are real people, not villains from movies who are endlessly determined, resourceful, and devoted to hatching their evil scheme. More often than not, they are high school kids in mental anguish with very troubled mindsets.

Yes, some situations are going to arise where the laws fail to prevent the crime, that is, after-all, why we need laws. My problem isn't necessarily with steps taken to make school safer, but the refusal to admit that strengthening or creating new laws is helpful. It has proven to be so.

https://www.sciencealert.com/scientific-evidence-that-stricter-gun-control-works-saves-lives

How would any of these proposals do anything to stop a bad guy that already has a gun?

We have readily available repeating firearms still in circulation that date all the way back to the Civil War. Even if you pass the most stringent background checks and gun bans, we're still at least a hundred years away from any serious decrease in the supply of arms and ammunition in this country. The laws you're wanting to propose will do nothing to address our problem in the here and now. The only thing that the laws you wish to propose will solve, is easing the anxieties of the overly anxious and/or vindictive.

Adding a a new law and restriction isn't going to fix the problem of evil in our time.

It's been proven time and time again, and no one has yet to disprove this Axiom:

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

What could have possibly stopped the Dixon IL shooter, other than another armed individual?

 

[Gandhi]

I will get out on a limb and saw a properly armed and motivated security agent/cop/etc. at every school is just common sense that most sane people on both sides of the aisle will support. Arming teachers, not so much....

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

I will get out on a limb and saw a properly armed and motivated security agent/cop/etc. at every school is just common sense that most sane people on both sides of the aisle will support. Arming teachers, not so much....

It would have to depend upon the individual teacher.

Some individuals will be able to handle the responsibility with no issues, some simply will not. What the solution surely isn't, is to treat all teachers like some amorphis Borg-like hive mind where every single individual is only capable of one set of skills.

 

[tonni]

What if the teacher freaks out? Arm students.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

What if the teacher freaks out? Arm students.

From this very page:

If your objection boils down to "people aren't perfect", I'm afraid that's not a good enough reason to leave our schools as soft targets.

 

[tonni]

From this very page:

Yeah so why not arm the students?

 

[Stoic1]

Yeah so why not arm the students?

Derp! 5yr olds should have nuklear weapons! Derp derp gurgle derp!

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

Yeah so why not arm the students?

In regards to minors, that's a fairly simple concept to wrap your mind around.

We don't allow minors to currently enter into contract. Children are not fully rights bearing creatures. Their safety and security is the responsibility of the adults that their care has been entrusted to.

Students over 18 can choose whether or not to be there in most cases.

 

[Gutter Chris]

What if the teacher freaks out? Arm students.

Do we have a problem with teachers shooting up schools now ?

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

So if teachers are going to undergo commando and Special Forces training in addition to all the education and subject training they have to learn are you going to finally pay them enough to get off food stamps?

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Seems like a great learning environment.