Scaring away the new guys (kinda long)

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Dogstarman, Apr 11, 2018.

  1. Dogstarman

    Dogstarman Old man jiu jitsu

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    We have made several changes to the way we train now. I’m more of a gate keeper for new guys now. I’m serious in that I take it easy on new guys now. I don’t run rough shod. We also implemented a new policy on what we can do to white belts. As you said, if they are brand new no subs and let them work positional drilling. As they advance its more free sparring but no subs on them, they can catch subs on higher belts if they can.

    Some guys though come in strong and just want to train hard.
     
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  2. INTERL0PER

    INTERL0PER Brown Belt

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    I'm a shitty white belt myself, but with several years of no gi to fall back on, so I often surprise the other white belts in no gi class, but get wrecked in gi class. So, I kind of see both sides of this coin pretty regularly. I think, like with anything, there's a balance to be struck. Ultimately, to stick with bjj you need to be ok with some itpret intense physical discomfort and ego smashing, but too much too soon can shatter someone.

    I try to be gentle on very new guys, while still showing the art. I play a lot of guard, so I sweep em and sub them, but as gently and slowly as I can. In a strange way, I think it makes them feel even more helpless.

    Once they start to get a little knowledge, I let them work stuff. Then one day, when they're starting to become more competitive, I turn up the intensity to show them how it really feels.

    I also regularly feel the higher belts do this to me. Just when I think I'm making progress, they turn it up a notch and I'm helpless again haha.

    Our coach also picks every partner for every roll, so here's very much in control of the whole process, which definitely helps.
     
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  3. Foppa21

    Foppa21 Brown Belt

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    If I'm coaching, I don't roll. In the very few times injuries happen, it's hardly ever on my watch. Unless the room is full of the experienced regulars. If I know a person in inexperienced or never done anything grappling related before, I'll pair them up one of the other instructors (we roster our classes) and tell them what the person knows and get them to only fire the techniques the new person knows and can recognise.
     
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  4. kpoz12

    kpoz12 The No Life King Platinum Member

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    When Hulk Hogan decided he wanted to become a wrestler he trained with the legendary Hiro Matsuda. On his first day a stable of veterans did one of those aforementioned tests by "exercising him until he was going to faint," and then they took it up a notch and broke his leg. When he returned months later (without the police) they realized how dedicated he was. A year later he was already on the pro circuit.
     
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  5. yetanother

    yetanother Brown Belt

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    The mats in our gym are so overcrowded nowadays it makes no sense to go light on anyone male and not injured.
     
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  6. rmongler

    rmongler Brown Belt

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    Jiu-Jitsu isn't for everyone.
     
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  7. jr jr

    jr jr Purple Belt

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    It takes more space to roll easy? or you have to sit out rounds due to overcrowding? or you are full to the brim so you don't need to worry about getting new students?
     
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  8. SidRon

    SidRon White Belt

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    Ragdolling white belts is weak and it’s bad for business.
     
  9. KikoJones

    KikoJones Blue Belt

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    ^
    This is stupid. White belts, especially the one OP describes, need to be encouraged and built up to withstand the rigorous of BJJ. Its easy to smash them and make excuses that they're "weak" or "pussies" . The hard part is putting in the time to develop a team mate. Not everyone that walks into BJJ is Alpha. Encouragement and mentoring goes a long way.

    They'll wash out on their own without initially grinding the shit out of them. This is just as bad as counting Gym Taps.

    On the other side, this attitude is detrimental to the business aspect of the academy.
     
  10. yetanother

    yetanother Brown Belt

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    There is sometimes too little space to drill some things and people are I have to stop the roll a few times each way to move out of the way of some white belt falling into me and not noticing during the roll so I don't get injured (so there is enough space only after people pussy out and don't roll during later rounds). Also people are being routinely recruited to the beginners class.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  11. mataleaos

    mataleaos Purple Belt

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    I think there’s a difference in eras. Until the 2010s or so I never saw anyone really sticking with bjj that wasn’t more into fighting and getting hooked because they got beat up and felt how effective it is.

    Now a lot of people are checking out bjj because of podcasts like Joe Rogan and Sam Harris. It’s also being branded like surfing as a lifestyle activity. As such, I’ve noticed more people getting into the art recently that for lack of a better word just seem to be softer.

    As a gym owner I think are now having to consider more than before how hard they want brand new people to spar and I’ve even seen some schools now wanting white belts to wait a month or so...and sparring is what got a lot of us hooked.

    There is a balance. Newbies have to know this is real and feel its power, but once you own a school or out yourself in the owners shoes you realize it’s bad for business to scare away white belts or tool them without building them up too.
     
  12. Russky

    Russky Green Belt

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    If I were his coach I'd let him open his own gym with a big banner "Come here if you want to be touched by a gay!" right after I learned that I lost a paying customer to his **** ideas.
     
  13. Mischievousjoe

    Mischievousjoe White Belt

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    I guess I'm pretty torn on this as well. I've been training for 12 years, and when I started it was very much a tough guys club. Being a small guy, I took constant beating from bigger dudes, or from everyone really. But that made me love Jiu Jitsu. Maybe you have to be a little bit of a masochist to really love this sport. But I loved how difficult it was, and you could tell how legit it was by how easilly I was handled by everyone.

    I feel like having to go through this phase is a valuable experience for almost everyone. That said, I now help a few of my buddies teach at a school they opened up a few years ago and I can see the need to go easy on some types - at least from a business perspective. I try to walk a line when I roll with the white belts. A lot of them are really tough and don't want me to go easy on them. But some are older, weaker, unconfident, weak etc. And I will gift them positions, let them work, and eventually slowly apply a submission when they do something really sloppy so I can show them where they screwed up.
     
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  14. beat...people...up?

    beat...people...up? White Belt

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    He'd probably attract quite a few of a certain kind of clientele if he did that.
     
  15. trustdoesntrust

    trustdoesntrust Purple Belt

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    I think instructors also have a lot to offer the higher belts vs. higher belts during rolling sessions. More than just being a safety issue, or a social issue, rolling sessions are highly instructive moments that are often neglected by the person who could be doing the instructing. It would be like a ballet choreographer teaching you the steps, drilling them a few times, and then just being like "alright, dance!"
     
  16. andrewm2211

    andrewm2211 Orange Belt

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    Yeah I dunno. When I got/get smashed I’m like “damn this dude is good, and he learned it here, they must know what they are doing”
    But a lot of egos can’t handle it. I think some guys just get frustrated when they have no idea what to do.

    Like others have said our coach really keeps an eye on that stuff. He’ll be like “he’s knew so go ahead and roll but if he makes an obvious mistake help him out”. Which I think is a good balance. So they experience the presh, but aren’t just helplessly taking a beating for the sparring end of class.

    The only time it doesn’t work is when they ultra hard and you have to turn it up to match.
     
  17. mattemate

    mattemate Brown Belt

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    Whaaaa! Who cares? There are soft ass BJJ academies and tough academies.
    I'd rather be in a room full of killers.
     
  18. DanaWhitesButler

    DanaWhitesButler Brown Belt

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    I go easy on white belts, but if a big strong white belt tries to hurt me I will put them down and punish them. I am 35 fucking years old, and I will have no mercy on a big strong 22 year old with an ego problem. So, it depends on how they roll with me. If they show me no mercy and it feels like a "fight", then I will punish them.
     
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  19. AnotherOldGuy

    AnotherOldGuy Purple Belt

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    I've seen Nick Gill (two times Olympic medalist in judo at under 100kg and currently Canadian national judo coach) thrown around by 10 year old yellow belts who weighed about 60 pounds. However, he made sure they earned their throws, and showed them what they did right and what they did wrong. Nick's goal is pretty clear: to encourage kids and adults to stay in judo.

    Its the model I try to follow when training with beginners in judo (though obviously I am nowhere as good or as knowledgeable as Nick). Ideally I aim for a level just above where they are - I give them things they earned, but they have to earn it. Every once in awhile you get someone who develops attitude (ie they don't understand I'm coaching), and then I throw them a few times (without hurting them) to bring their attention back to the fact that I'm in coaching mode, not competing mode.

    It tends to work very well with beginners. Things that would be patronizing (and annoying) for higher belts is almost always appreciated by beginners. And they tend to return.
     
  20. Foppa21

    Foppa21 Brown Belt

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    If they're giving it to you you're more than welcome to return the favour
     

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