Russian Wrestlers and PED's?

Jack Handy jr

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I don't want to come off as salty about Burroughs's loss I think if he wrestled the entire match like the last thirty seconds he would've blown dude out of the water.

that said Gudev looked real swole and vascular the hall mark of juice. And if seemingly every other Russian Olympian is/was on something over the years with the Got damn KGB, and their top scientist designing chemicals to defeat testing...... isn't it fair to assume most if not all Russian wrestlers over the years were doping as well?

I look at Karelin, and The Satiev brothers accomplishments with doubt. I've read many interviews from guys that wrestled Karelin in his prime and they've all said how freakishly strong he was. and this is coming from Olympic heavyweight wrestlers some of the functionally strongest ( I know I know) humans on the planet.

what say you...and maybe im a lil salty.
 
I won't hear a word against Saitiev, dammit!

However, of the current crop, 28 of the magical disappearing tests in the McLaren report came from wrestlers.
 
I'm quite frankly at the point where I just assume a majority of Russians were/are doping, no matter the sport.
 
I'm under the impression that they weren't juicing during the actual games.

Their 97KG guy Boltukayev was an absolute monster all year beating up on Varner, Snyder, Gatsolov and Gadismov.

Sll the sudden there is crackdown on Russian PEDs and he showed up noticeably smaller with no gas tank.

I was suspicious that a 30 year old would burst on to the seen destroying World Champs and medalists with relative ease. After seeing him this past weekend I think he was juicing hard and couldn't for the Olympics.
 
wasn't karelin born weighing like 12lbs?

not saying he didn't juice, but the dude was obviously going to grow up into an ox, no matter what.

i like to think that he was clean.
 
Call me jaded. I assume most top level athletes are cycling. Not all but most.
 
I won't hear a word against Saitiev, dammit!

However, of the current crop, 28 of the magical disappearing tests in the McLaren report came from wrestlers.
Why not Saitiev... I love Saitiev. He was literally an artist. But both he and his brother stayed both relevant and competitive well into their mid thirties, in an increasingly younger man's sport. In fact in the last few years it's become vastly more the younger guys who are winning. At the 2015 worlds Burroughs was the oldest champ at 26 (or 27, not sure). Yes Buvaisar's style adjusted for his age (and he was GREATLY aided by the 2 out of 3 periods era) but where there is smoke there's fire. And if you've studied Russian culture and athletics at all, the state sponsored doping isn't all surprising, and undoubtedly goes back to the Soviet era.

And before anyone calls me a hypocritical, judgmental American, I know for a fact a lot of our best senior level guys back in the day were juicing, And I have STRONG suspicions about some of our athletes. And there's increasing suspicion about Cornell
Call me jaded. I assume most top level athletes are cycling. Not all but most.
This, like I said on the freestyle thread its become absolutely fascinating how niave, the cognitive dissonance and the excuses made on this topic
 
When your country gets exposed for a state sponsored PED ring, and many wrestlers have popped, it's hard not to doubt the accomplishments of previous (or possibly current) wrestlers. Russians are a bunch of dicks.
 
Why not Saitiev... I love Saitiev. He was literally an artist...
Well, mainly for that reason. But also because while whatever most Russian guys were on made them big and strong for the weight-class, Satiev was lanky as hell and often visibly under-powered.

But yeah, basically I'd rather not believe it, so I'm not gonna. And you can't make me!
 
Why not Saitiev... I love Saitiev. He was literally an artist. But both he and his brother stayed both relevant and competitive well into their mid thirties, in an increasingly younger man's sport. In fact in the last few years it's become vastly more the younger guys who are winning. At the 2015 worlds Burroughs was the oldest champ at 26 (or 27, not sure). Yes Buvaisar's style adjusted for his age (and he was GREATLY aided by the 2 out of 3 periods era) but where there is smoke there's fire. And if you've studied Russian culture and athletics at all, the state sponsored doping isn't all surprising, and undoubtedly goes back to the Soviet era.

And before anyone calls me a hypocritical, judgmental American, I know for a fact a lot of our best senior level guys back in the day were juicing, And I have STRONG suspicions about some of our athletes. And there's increasing suspicion about Cornell

This, like I said on the freestyle thread its become absolutely fascinating how niave, the cognitive dissonance and the excuses made on this topic

What's the story with Cornell?
 
Even if the Russian was on something, he won the match when he slammed Bourroughs in the chest in after taking a hand to the face. He clearly wasn't going to take any shit from Burroughs. That little edge was enough.
 
Glad I wasn't alone in thinking this, dude easily stuffed and shut down everything Jordan was trying with relative ease IMO. The close ups showing his physique made me think of how some MMA fighters look on the juice like Reem and what the look like off the gear.

Agree totally with kill kill's assessment
 
Well, mainly for that reason. But also because while whatever most Russian guys were on made them big and strong for the weight-class, Satiev was lanky as hell and often visibly under-powered.

But yeah, basically I'd rather not believe it, so I'm not gonna. And you can't make me!
That's ok. Naivety is cute. No need to get in a huge argument

I will say that (because I've watched literally dozens of his matches more than once) that his power deficit wasn't there until he was much older when evendors PED'S don completely erase age. In his prime he was picking dudes up and throwing them around especially with that fireman's/head in the whole combo
 
What's the story with Cornell?
Some of my friends and DI coaches and others who would be likely to know and wouldn't throw around random slander. Strongly suspect that Cornell's wrestlers are using, with the back zitted Dean being the most suspicious. Especially because the type of alumni and support Cornell has makes it much much easier to get higher end doctors and stuff
 
That's ok. Naivety is cute. No need to get in a huge argument

I will say that (because I've watched literally dozens of his matches more than once) that his power deficit wasn't there until he was much older when evendors PED'S don completely erase age. In his prime he was picking dudes up and throwing them around especially with that fireman's/head in the whole combo


The thing with Russian dominance is that when you take a naturally talented grappler like a Karelian or the Satievs, and you give them juice....in hindsight I'm now judging them on my Marion Jones, Lance Armstrong "eyeball test"

And that's looking at obv talented individuals in their respective sports not only winning..but cdestroying other talented extremely high level competitors.


Take Karelian we've all seen him deadweight deadlifting then throwing 285lb guys like sacks of potatoes...in hind sight how is this possible?

I've been grappling and lifting weights going on 30 years . I have respectable powerlifting numbers bench,squat,dead. And even though I can deadlift a lot of weight I know that if I tried to deadweight deadlift and throw a belly down 285 lb man it would be extremely difficult.

Because when someone goes dead, or relatively limp their weight is unevenly distributed. on top of the fact that there are no clinched muscles in their bodies for you to apply force to.

This Karelin fellow was doing this well into his what late thirties Ffs?

And my salt is even more knowing Burrougs was owning guidev in international competitions.
 
Its quite possible. On the other hand, the United States has a long list of PED cases. Everything from Gatlin to Marion Jones and even Carl Lewis failed a test, tho the US agency decided to ignore it - and according to Lewis hundreds of other US athletes - which makes his outrage at Ben Johnson somewhat cynical, not to mention ironic.

I doubt that any of the major sporting countries don't have their share of failed PED tests in Olympic competition, and I suspect Russia and the US aren't the only countries whose agencies pushed test results under the table. Meaning, I don't think I'd single out Karelin and Satiev any more than any other gold medal winners who never tested positive.

The problem with the eyeball test, the reason that not a single sporting or testing body in the world uses it (despite every sporting forum being full of people who are certain they can determine by eyeball who is using and who isn't), is that it gives both false positives and false negatives. Blood tests are very unreliable, but are still orders of magnitude more reliable than visual tests - which is why millions are spent on them instead of the few hundreds of dollars an eyeball test would cost.

And everyone thinks their opponents are using, but not their guys. Which is natural, but hardly convincing.
 
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Its quite possible. On the other hand, the United States has a long list of PED cases. Everything from Gatlin to Marion Jones and even Carl Lewis failed a test, tho the US agency decided to ignore it - and according to Lewis hundreds of other US athletes - which makes his outrage at Ben Johnson somewhat cynical, not to mention ironic.

I doubt that any of the major sporting countries don't have their share of failed PED tests in Olympic competition, and I suspect Russia and the US aren't the only countries whose agencies pushed test results under the table. Meaning, I don't think I'd single out Karelin and Satiev any more than any other gold medal winners who never tested positive.

The problem with the eyeball test, the reason that not a single sporting or testing body in the world uses it (despite every sporting forum being full of people who are certain they can determine by eyeball who is using and who isn't), is that it gives both false positives and false negatives. Blood tests are very unreliable, but are still orders of magnitude more reliable than visual tests - which is why millions are spent on them instead of the few hundreds of dollars an eyeball test would cost.

And everyone thinks their opponents are using, but not their guys. Which is natural, but hardly convincing.
Like I said earlier.. not what me or the other people with high level experience on here are saying
 
Like I said earlier.. not what me or the other people with high level experience on here are saying

The guy who said hundreds of American athletes had failed tests ignored by American sporting bodies was Carl Lewis (Google it). How much higher level than Carl Lewis can you get?

Or am I misunderstanding what you're objecting to?
 
Its quite possible. On the other hand, the United States has a long list of PED cases. Everything from Gatlin to Marion Jones and even Carl Lewis failed a test, tho the US agency decided to ignore it - and according to Lewis hundreds of other US athletes - which makes his outrage at Ben Johnson somewhat cynical, not to mention ironic.

I doubt that any of the major sporting countries don't have their share of failed PED tests in Olympic competition, and I suspect Russia and the US aren't the only countries whose agencies pushed test results under the table. Meaning, I don't think I'd single out Karelin and Satiev any more than any other gold medal winners who never tested positive.

The problem with the eyeball test, the reason that not a single sporting or testing body in the world uses it (despite every sporting forum being full of people who are certain they can determine by eyeball who is using and who isn't), is that it gives both false positives and false negatives. Blood tests are very unreliable, but are still orders of magnitude more reliable than visual tests - which is why millions are spent on them instead of the few hundreds of dollars an eyeball test would cost.

And everyone thinks their opponents are using, but not their guys. Which is natural, but hardly convincing.
You are talking about track and field, not wrestling. US wrestlers are the cleanest in the world hands down. We have the most stringent testing out of any NGB. Dont say US wrestling is doping because track athletes of the 80's were doping.

Two of Russias athletes in the Olympic games tested for Meldonium last year. That should be all you need to know, never mind they destroyed 28 samples and had wrestlers inside the WADA facility.
 
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