Royce vs Joe Rogan in BJJ - who takes it?

trustdoesntrust said:
this is the classic conundrum in sports. prime babe ruth would look terrible flailing at the slider of any modern AAA pitcher, but if he grew up in the universe of modern baseball one can imagine him translating the 'essence' of his skills.
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What really changed since the days of Babe Ruth is science in doping. Thats not really the case with 2005 up until today. MMA is way too young to have these differences like you attest to Baseball. Ruth was close to 90years ago. Thats a whole other case. A 2005 Shogun under Pride rules would wreak havoc nowadays like back then.

Put a Rocky Marciano under Holyfields, Tysons or Joshuas PED regime and you also have a KILLER at HW.
 
yetanother said:
I'm not sure the early bjj and mma legends had any sort of extraordinary talent or skill I would guess a bit of opportunity can allow even a regular Joe to be a legend if the talent pool is extra tiny.
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i don't know if Royce would still be a legend, but it's not hard to imagine him having a career trajectory similar to a Neiman Gracie (future top ten/ fringe contender), with Brian Ortega being a best-case scenario. Say what you want about shallow talent pools or proprietary knowledge, but the Gracies were scientifically developing fighters to win open rules matches, and Royce was deemed one of the top students to emerge from that training. That is the 'essence' of his skills which would translate to today.
 
listrahtes said:
Thats not really the case with 2005 up until today. MMA is way too young to have these differences like you attest to Baseball.
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One of the main art in MMA wasn't fully developed yet.
For one things no-gi was in it's infancy back then and sucked in 2005.
 
listrahtes said:
What really changed since the days of Babe Ruth is science in doping. Thats not really the case with 2005 up until today. MMA is way too young to have these differences like you attest to Baseball. Ruth was close to 90years ago. Thats a whole other case. A 2005 Shogun under Pride rules would wreak havoc nowadays like back then.

Put a Rocky Marciano under Holyfields, Tysons or Joshuas PED regime and you also have a KILLER at HW.
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babe ruth was built like a truck (some have speculated this was due to a multi-ethnic heritage), allowing an already gifted athlete to push the fundamental boundaries of the sport (i.e. iintroducing the concept of "the slugger"). so, what you say about PED's is exactly to my point: an athlete like Ruth who was on the cutting edge of strength-in-sport for his era would no doubt be on the cutting edge in a different era.
 
Royce got flattened pretty easily by Matt Hughes. Joe Rogak is a legit black belt not competing doesn’t take anything away.
 
trustdoesntrust said:
babe ruth was built like a truck (some have speculated this was due to a multi-ethnic heritage), allowing an already gifted athlete to push the fundamental boundaries of the sport (i.e. iintroducing the concept of "the slugger"). so, what you say about PED's is exactly to my point: an athlete like Ruth who was on the cutting edge of strength-in-sport for his era would no doubt be on the cutting edge in a different era.
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sorry misunderstood you
 
miscend said:
is a legit black belt not competing doesn’t take anything away.
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A black speaks very very little about your skills. Legit competition wins do.
People generally pick some up one the way because it takes a lot of time to get one.
 
Idonotbelieveit said:
This shouldn't even be a question
Rogan stomps him
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The question is Rogan actually any good. Obviously everyone who fights in the modern UFC and is not CM Punk stomps Royce or even your average 3-0 fighter beats him.
Rogan has never fought is old and takes drugs and likely random PEDs.
 
I know people who have trained with both or them. they didn't have anything very good to say about royce's jiu jitsu. in fact many said uncomplimentary things. in a straight bjj match Joe rogan would definitely be the favorite.
 
furthermore, can anyone share one piece of evidence that Royce is any good at straight jiu jitsu? he proved he was really good at using bjj in mma against guys with no jiu jitsu in the early ufcs. Matt Hughes showed that Royce's ground game was not very good in mma years after that. dominated on the ground,. but that's all irrelevant in this discussion as we're talking about straight jiu jitsu... I'm a brown belt and live in Torrance and have trained with high level people who have trained with both. based off what I've heard, rogan is better.
 
thewhiterooster said:
furthermore, can anyone share one piece of evidence that Royce is any good at straight jiu jitsu?
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Watching some of his mma fights he seems to have parts of the game where is doing fine like having good mount control and ones that are at low blue belt level (going for some shit ankle lock)
 
Jesús fucking Christ people... Royce has been doing jiu jitsu for longer than most people here have been on. This planet... give the man some respect. Do I think he’s as good as the new wave? Not even close, but to say he’s a blue belt level is ridiculous.
 
BJJ_Rage said:
Jesús fucking Christ people... Royce has been doing jiu jitsu for longer than most people here have been on. This planet... give the man some respect. Do I think he’s as good as the new wave? Not even close, but to say he’s a blue belt level is ridiculous.
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His mount control is good, his ankle locks are bad for a blue belt.
 
Joe Rogan is a color commentator, comedian, podcast host, actor, and jiu jitsu blackbelt. Royce is just a jiu jitsu black belt. Jiu jitsu is his livelihood. Not even taking into consideration that his last name is Gracie, I think he takes it based off of mat time alone. All things being equal, mat time makes the difference.
 
yetanother said:
Watching some of his mma fights he seems to have parts of the game where is doing fine like having good mount control and ones that are at low blue belt level (going for some shit ankle lock)
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To be fair though, bjj players being good at leg locks is still relatively new. I still remember a time on sherdog where a good majority of straight bjj players didn't practice them. Not all obviously,
 
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