Ronda Rousey is so beatable...

[gorillaonabike]

Entertaining read and would be interested to read more about the technical aspects of what is going on in her fights.

In judo, the critical element is around kuzushi. This is often translated incorrectly but it loosely means 'to lead someone by the nose to get them where you want them.'

The whole point is that throwing works if the kuzushi is right.

Normally, a judoka wants to throw 'without effort.' It's not about the muscle, it's all about creating 'momentum' and imbalance.

For example, what Ronda does is she might pull an opponent or 'fake' a throw to her towards her and as the opponent pulls away from her, she has created momentum and a touch of imbalance in that direction. She can then accelerate that 'right' momentum and either throw or sweep.

It is all in the kuzushi because she needs movement. Without movement, she has to start to force a throw which then becomes difficult. This is basic judo 101. Don't look at the 'training' sessions of her throwing as her ukes are all 'giving' her the throw and assuming kuzushi.

Just reading this, it sounds shit. But hopefully you get the idea.

 

[gorillaonabike]

Judo is very similar to chess. Matches between exceptionally high level competitors often stalemate, but the slightest mistake will be capitalised on. And even the very best make mistakes. Ronda isnt fighting the very best by a long shot, and they have to do a whole lot more than 'train for judo' to change that. She is winning because she is better.

And, yes. If its important, because it looks like you believe your Judo experience makes you more qualified, I have my black belt, got it through competition, and have spent years competing in Judo. So I also have a little idea about how Judo can be applied, and I'm happy as shit to see Ronda showing how effective Judo can truly be. I hope it sparks more people to try it, and maybe widen the talent pool available in mens MMA.

If you are a high level competitor, then you are certainly better than I ever was. The nearest I got to high level competition is when I accidentally tripped over Winston Gordon's kitbag at the Budokwai...

However, while I agree, what do you see when you look at her throws? Do you see what I see? Unprepared opponents who haven't trained for judo?

 

[oscerthegrouch]

A another Ronda thread.























Great job

yeah 2015 white belt are their even mods anymore...

 

[Pem123]

whitebelt thread in the heavies.

 

[jeff7b9]

You know the funny thing is about that? I've seen people say this exact same thing about other dominant champions

when someone dominates enough, it reaches a point where the two main suggestions are either "land a lucky punch" or "win a boring decision"

but historically that has almost never happened. In reality, all the great champions have been dethroned in dramatic fashion. Fedor was triangled/armbarred. Anderson was KTFO on the feet. (when everyone thought the only way to beat him was to lay on him)

Fedor and Anderson also both reigned for many years. It seems very very likely that Ronda can do the same thing.

Chris Weidman was not even an MMA fighter when Anderson was two years into his reign, finishing everyone in highlight fashion and not breaking a sweat while dispatching the best fighters that could be found to fight him via 1st round finish... if there is a girl out there who can bring the violent end to Ronda's reign it does not appear to be anyone in the UFC at present.


Also to be clear, nowhere did I say that Holly or anyone had even a REMOTELY decent chance of beating Ronda with any game plan, but given the fighters that are out there and their abilities (or lack thereof) this would be one of the best chances. Since Ronda gets her takedowns from the clinch it would at the very least make it harder for her to get the TD if Holly fought from distance, which she is well trained to do, Holly does not need to get TD herself or even fight in the clinch to fight her game effectively, which is a strategic advantage she holds over say Meisha or Cat when it comes to fighting Ronda, as both of them fight best doing something Ronda does lightyears better.

IF Ronda stays in the game long enough she will probably taste defeat, but at the rate she is going she will probably have enough money to live comfortably before that happens and it will just come down to whether she wants to continue to fight or not or if there are even fighters that make it even slightly interesting to match her up against.


All that said, we are talking about WOMEN, so while a male fighter, in particular at a high weight, has to worry about "getting caught" - the "puncher's chance" is MUCH MUCH MUCH less of a factor for Ronda, as KOs are extremely rare in women's MMA, with Ronda holding the only actual KO in the UFC women's divisions that I am aware of.

Fedor and Anderson also faced MUCH higher level of competition- Werdum is a world class BJJ practitioner, Hendo an olympian with KO power... Ronda is competing in a UFC division that is only 2 years old which only exists because they wanted to make money OFF RONDA.... Her dominance is in many ways similar to that of Royce Gracie in early UFC times where he was facing opponents that were so outmatched that they were essentially bringing a plastic spork to a gun fight.

 

[DysDave]

If you are a high level competitor, then you are certainly better than I ever was. The nearest I got to high level competition is when I accidentally tripped over Winston Gordon's kitbag at the Budokwai...

However, while I agree, what do you see when you look at her throws? Do you see what I see? Unprepared opponents who haven't trained for judo?

Ha, I trained with Winston a few times, great great guy. His Seoi Nage drill was one of the fastest things ive ever seen.

As far as her opponents go, what I see is women who are grossly overmatched. They are struggling to find something to do, and (especially in Miesha's case) keep running into her strongest suit. But thats because its also THEIR strong suit, and you cant just change it. Its like, lets use Bader as an example. He cant outwrestle Jones. But what else is he meant to try and do? He cant suddenly become a magical striker who can outstrike Jones- he is a wrestler, thats what he does.

Most of Rouseys opponents are grapplers. All they can do is focus on that- Rousey is just way too good.

 

[skombolis]

5 women off the top of my head in their primes who would destroy Rousey with just 6 months of MMA training at Openweight.

Cyborg, Lucia Rijker, Gabby Garcia, Serina Williams, Layla Ali.

So all we need to do to test this theory is ban weight classes and her a time machine?

I'm in. I will start working on the commissions. Let me know once you get your hands on some platonium and a flux capacitor.

 

[Le Smish Smosh**]

Alexis Davis "gave" Ronda the Harai Goshi?

So the fact that she was out on her feet after the cross counter landed has nothing to do with that?

 

[btz]

the ufc in the women divisions are 20 years behind, dont get me wrong Ronda is great but the other girls dont know what to do, they look like amateurs, I saw ufc 184 and I had the feeling that I was watching UFC 1

agreed , the other women look like rookies against her. its like a ufc vet taking on a guy with a few months training . even misha kept trying to take ronda down and kept getting reversed, keep distance and strike she was doing ok.

 

[DysDave]

keep distance and strike she was doing ok.

No she wasn't.

 

[dmtpanic]

Alexis Davis "gave" Ronda the Harai Goshi?

So the fact that she was out on her feet after the cross counter landed has nothing to do with that?

Yeah I couldn't read anymore when I got that point.

It's like he hasn't watched fight.

Davis was on queer street and in no position to defend anything.

You can have all the Judo and BJJ knowledge in the world but that does you fuck all when you're getting punched in the face.

That's just another reason R3 is so got-damn impressive. She can still implement her master level judo while accounting for variables she didn't used to have to deal with in Judo.

 

[fightdonttweet]

Your thread title says she's so beatable but you utterly fail at explaining why. You didn't even have one reason.

 

[db220]

Any thread that starts by calling the first American to win an Olympic medal in Women's Judo a "third rate Judoka" is an obvious troll, but any thread bashing Ronda is almost guaranteed to go a few pages.

 

[Mr. Hammer]

says the keyboard warrior

end of rant

^ Clearly read thread title but not OP.

It was an educated rant. You would know that and not look so stupid if you would have taken a moment to read.

 

[Drake]

Ronda without judo is a shorter version of Jessamyn Duke minus the kicking.

 

[WrestlinganJudo]

And I say this as a Ronda Rousey fan and very old, very beaten-up, third-rate judoka.

Sure, I feel pride at judo being on display but as a judoka, I see extraordinarily stupid, basic mistakes being made by the women she fights who have clearly not trained against judo. Take for example, Alexis Davies who gave RR the Harai Goshi. I spent years trying to kuzushi opponents into that position and Alexis just handed it to RR on a plate. In boxing terms, Alexis Davies did the equivalent of walking forward with her eyes closed, chin in the air and hands-down to an Olympic-medalist level opponent.

Cat. What shocked me most is not the knee, rather when she ended up in the clinch, she tried some kind of 3rd rate no-gi O Goshi!!!!! And when she found herself on the floor, she put herself in the training position we judoka use most in groundwork!!!!! Trying either of these against an Olympic medalist was going to be stupid beyond belief and indicates zero prep.

And as for Tait, when she was in throwing range, she didn't understand how to nullify a judo throw. There were a dozen things she could've done but did none of them because she clearly hadn't prepared against a judo.

I'm so glad the people I practiced Judo with are not like you.
So as a first post, this is probably not ideal but the last thing I want to see is another inept display by an opponent who probably can't even spell judo let alone have prepared properly to face an Olympic medalist. RR has demonstrated she can get punched in the face, she has legs and can be taken down and if one of the coaches actually does their homework, RR could find herself in a real fight. However, firstly, a coach needs to figure out how to get their fighter into a room with an actual judoka. In fact, getting their fighter in a room with someone who can spell judo would be a good start.

* Rant over *

You know better that this.

Take for example, Alexis Davies who gave RR the Harai Goshi. I spent years trying to kuzushi opponents into that position and Alexis just handed it to RR on a plate.

Alexis response to the throw is irrelevant, she was out on her feet from a clean punch and what looks like a solid knee.

I didn't read the thread or any follow up comments you may have made but if that is your observation I am guessing you were not very good.

We see judokas makes mistakes against wrestlers and strikers all the time. Maybe they should study others more.

Judo is not the only game out there, you have to toss out some of the things you learn from your original sport, modify some of it and learn to deal with things that you didn't face before.

I didn't make fun of the people at my judo club that I could take down using wrestling technique and the judo guys that could toss me didn't make fun of me when I tried to wrestle them.

Funny thing, wrestlers get taken down by wrestlers in both wrestling and in MMA.
Strikers take hits from other strikers in their striking sport and by other strikers in MMA
Same can happen with Judo.

You don't think people are not trained to defend against their base sport? Of course they are trained do defend it. Does not always work though or we would have a lot of 0-0 wrestling matches in wrestling.

The difference is the wrestler is not just worried about just wrestling because the wrestler might hit him in MMA if he does things exactly the same.
Strikers cannot behave the same way for the same reasons.
Same with judo and you know good and well Ronda has to do her judo a but different because this is no gi.

Ronda is not just judo anymore, she even has a wresting coach along with her jujitsu and striking coach.

 

[ArtemV]

WMMA in the UFC is at "UFC 1 stage" right now, no one is very well rounded right now, it will become better and more competitive in the future, but right now.. no.

 

[RafailNadull]

Perhaps you can create the Gorrilaonabike Judo Workshop, akin to the Dolce Diet, and charge incredible amounts for your brilliant insights into Judo defense.

 

[Prex32]

WMMA in the UFC is at "UFC 1 stage" right now, no one is very well rounded right now, it will become better and more competitive in the future, but right now.. no.

that's the real problem.
most of the female "mma-fighters" lack power anyway to knock someone out,
so naturally a good judoka will have all the tools to beat dem clueless girls.
they maybe can train certain things, but they are sadly years behind and it needs years of time to fully adjust/automatise things in the head to be competitive against an olympian.
the only real threat to her would be another long time judokas or olympians, but business wise this won't happen soon.

 

[Toco]

says the keyboard warrior

end of rant

this

amazing contribution to the thread

when theres actually a knowledgeable thread about ronda, it doesnt matter cause people like you shit all over it