roger no gi today

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by tekkenfan, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    roger won adcc 2005 but tbh the games changed alotttt since then do you think today he could go out and beat down gordan ryan garry tonin keenan ect?

    i love rogers game but not sure he could create that same type of pressure without the gi to pass these guys guards mount to armbar or back chokes

    he has no no gi footage hardly so it shard t know id love to see what his no gi game is like now
     
  2. rmongler

    rmongler Brown Belt

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    If you've got a subscription to his website, im sure there's at least some sans-kimono stuff there.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  3. yetanother

    yetanother Brown Belt

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    Roger is 10x better in nogi now than he was in 2005.
    He has a few rolls with Braulio Estima and he makes Braulio look like a blue belt they way he crushes him (Braulio gets a heel hook from inverted closed guard once)
     
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  4. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    i only saw them rolling in gi online not no gi can u show me the no gi vid your talking about?

    no doubt he is better today but without vids and how he hasnt competed in no gi in over a decade one can only question him
     
  5. yetanother

    yetanother Brown Belt

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    It's on his paysite.
     
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  6. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    god i hate that there are so fuckin many of these today ilove mendes bros i love roger braulio ect i cant just buy everyones thing sadly for what i usually like i usually only find a handful of technique son them
     
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  7. yetanother

    yetanother Brown Belt

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    You can rotate your subscriptions around.
    On the bright side for a price a lot less than a crappy seminar with rickson or some other old fraud you get the real champions to reveal their secrets.
     
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  8. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    yeah i dont do seminars most dont even show real stuff they like to use they save that for the team and show basic shit its robbery for some of those guys to do that

    idk how some guys sleep at night knowing they got paid 90 a person to show an upa escape
     
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  9. DatCutman

    DatCutman White Belt

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    as someone who has taught seminars, it's hard for me to sleep at night knowing most people can't upa correctly.

    I've put on seminars, and it's hard to decide between showing people what they need (the basics they've neglected or never known) and showing people what they want ("advanced" tech or moves they haven't seen).

    Roger's no-gi game isn't some super secret guard position that no one has seen. His no-gi game is built on solid fundamentals and knowledge of grappling. The metagame of BJJ has changed, yes, but it's all built on the same principles of fighting. If you have a good base deck to draw from, you just update your BJJ sideboard with a few answers to the BJJ metagame decks out there, and you're ready to go.
     
  10. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    I think Roger would do fine in modern no-gi. Xande has a pretty old school game, and he's still doing all right. I do think it would be interesting to see how he deals with the leg game, but Roger has always used a low, pressure passing style that really doesn't make the legs available and I don't think he'd have too much trouble dealing with the triangle/kimura/guillotine game of a Gordon Ryan for instance. Not to say he'd definitely win (modern guys are also badasses), but I don't think he'd be outclassed in any way.
     
  11. mataleaos

    mataleaos Purple Belt

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    You should watch some of his recent rolls with Braulio Estima.

    He's way better now without the gi than he was in 2005.

    To a larger point. It's like I was saying in another post. Tons of moves and guards and techniques go in and out of style, but all of that stuff is still built on the same foundation. And someone like Roger has such a mastery of the foundation that he's never going to not be able to sweep people, pass, take the back, finish, etc.

    So if he did adcc for example even if he didn't win it's not like he would go out there and not looks awesome. He'd still look great.

    If you're interested in watching him rolling without the gi there are rolls on his training site and Braulio Estima posts rolls between them on his website as well.
     
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  12. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    obviously rogers basic i know that but this is what people dont understand they say ohh ya roger wins with da basics but its the secrets of his technique of the basics i cant tell you how many times the knee cut pass has been modded to be used against good guys due to basic way being inferior like the gracie stack pass ect have to mod how basics are done to use against good people
    id like to see the tiny details he does to shut guys hips down that only he knows
     
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  13. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    im sure danaher knows given hes trained with both for years
     
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  14. mataleaos

    mataleaos Purple Belt

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    Another thing too though is that there is no universal agreement on what "the basics" are. People say things like closed guard armbars are basic, or knee cut passing is basic. I would not even take the definition that far. The basics are the underlying principles that make everything work. No matter if it's a closed guard armbar or a berimbolo. Both are built on a foundation of basic principles. And they definitely change like you point out.

    But when people say Roger would be fine because of his foundation/basics I don't even think they're talking about the specific moves that he uses. There are just simpler things and ideas. For example, good posture and proper body alignment exists in all aspects of life, and in all positions in BJJ. So looking at that basic principle, Roger's mastery of those kind of principles is so solid that it doesn't matter what technique or move he's using or what technique or move he's defending. He's always going to be in perfect or close to perfect position, and he's almost always going to have his opponent out of perfect position.

    So the moves/techniques can be anything, but as long as Roger is in better position than his opponent or close it to, then he is going to win or at least look pretty good. Both of those options are likely.

    Concepts like this are why Marcelo could have matches or roll in the gym with guys that were experts in techniques that he never used, and Marcelo was able to not end up caught in those positions unless there was a large gap in physical attributes like size.

    I hope that wasn't too weird.
     
  15. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    No one is crushing roger, no one.

    Not until he goes way beyond 40’s
     
  16. DatCutman

    DatCutman White Belt

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    A more eloquent way of saying what I was trying to get across.

    It's a weird thing. Until it finally clicks for you and you have direct experience, it's hard to understand jiu jitsu isn't moves, but principles, and that moves are static pictures of principles in action in a certain situation.
     
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  17. ijustwannasurf

    ijustwannasurf Brown Belt

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    Nerd life amen.
     
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  18. mataleaos

    mataleaos Purple Belt

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    Exactly. Another crazy thing is I think people that are super good at jiu-jitsu think normal people are retarded for not understanding that faster. Especially guys/girls that reach black belt really fast. They're either naturals and can't explain what they do. And they don't get why other people aren't the same. Or they aren't naturals but they develop this understanding of principles really fast, and they don't get why other people aren't able to.

    Most of the best grapplers (both from an athletic and teaching perspective) that I've trained don't seem to actually think jiu-jitsu is very complicated.
     
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  19. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    i agree with most of what your saying in that you talk about concepts im glad i come from a gracie lineage where defense and base posture is number 1 i play alot of dlr and rdlr and half guard game son bottom but on top i never get caught in weird types of things that guys are playing like berinbolos ect

    alot of gyms are teaching guys berinbolos and leg locks at day 1 i think thats crazy teaching all these openguards before the guys even have hip movement or a understanding of positions even elarning side control is hard from day 1 idk why mendes bros do that and some other gyms

    to me the best way tot rain someone is to make them for there first 2 years have very basic jiu jitsu making sure they have very good posture and defense from bottom while working hip movement drills alot then once they are half way into blue 2 too 3 stripes say then can start to learn more new age stuff i see alot of purple and brown belts have super flexible attacking open guards but cant pass for anything and have horrible defense posture
     
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  20. yetanother

    yetanother Brown Belt

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    If you think grappling feel and principles is everything just look all the high level grapplers getting heel hooked.
     
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