Roger Gracie

kenetics said:
Roger beating Marcelo and Jacare in there prime is more impressive than the wins buchecha has won recently.

Buchecha has been tapped by smaller opponents as he went through the ranks to black belt. I think Davi Ramos foot locked him and he's a light weight. Roger was last submitted when he was a blue belt.. And he fought through monsters like the guys I mentioned above.

I just think Roger potential was always higher than buchecha. Roger left early to persue mma. You know he could have continued to win worlds even though he was a Ten time world champion when he left bjj lol.
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This is simply not true. You can't let nostalgia color your views. Marcelo and Jacare are all time greats, but they weren't substantially better than guys like Leandro Lo, Galvao, or Rodolfo all of whom Buchecha consistently beat.

I do think Roger could have continued to win Mundials, but this isn't really a discussion about who's better all time between the two. It's about who's going to win their match, and I think all the factors favor Almeida.
 
kenetics said:
I do think Roger could have continued to win Mundials, but this isn't really a discussion about who's better all time between the two.
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If Roger beats Buchecha in the super fight and then wins the grand prix his claim for being best all time will get a lot stronger.
 
yetanother said:
If Roger beats Buchecha in the super fight and then wins the grand prix his claim for being best all time will get a lot stronger.
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If Roger beats Buchecha after this much layoff, Best Of All Time will not be a claim. It will be an official, uncontested title.
 
Uchi Mata said:
This is simply not true. You can't let nostalgia color your views. Marcelo and Jacare are all time greats, but they weren't substantially better than guys like Leandro Lo, Galvao, or Rodolfo all of whom Buchecha consistently beat.

I do think Roger could have continued to win Mundials, but this isn't really a discussion about who's better all time between the two. It's about who's going to win their match, and I think all the factors favor Almeida.
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Marcelo and jacare were better than LO and Galvao.

LO got submitted by Kron who Marcelo beat twice.

LO is not a finisher like jacare, he would get finished by jacare in his prime becaus LO gases.

Marcelo also beat up on Galvao a couple times too.

Rodolfo would be tougher but even he couldn't do anything to a 145lb mendes at the Abu Dubai pro. I think jac and Marcelo in their prime give mendes big trouble.
 
Rickson by armbar I guess.
 
Uchi Mata said:
Roger didn't finish everyone, with the exception of 2009. Even during his prime he lost a few times, to Jacare and most notably Xande. Buchecha hasn't lost in years. It's really hard to compare levels of dominance since you always have different levels of competition, but I don't know that Roger ever put together a streak like Buchecha has the past 6 years. With the exception of 2015 when he was out with an injury he's won double gold every year since 2012. Roger, strangely enough, never got the double more than 2 years in a row ('09 and '10). As odd as it feels to say it, I think Buchecha is the more dominant of the two, at least as measured by consistency in winning golds. Though I don't think anyone will ever equal the single tournament performance Roger had in 2009, that was 8 years ago. There's no way he's the same guy today. Even if he wins, I don't think there's any way it's as dominant as prime Roger was.
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The first two absolutes he lost to Jacare are arguable.

Armbar to armbreak in the first match and Jacare got two points for an incomplete takedown in the second.
 
marcelo is the best ever...
roger is the most accomplished ever
buchecha will be too much for roger right now
 
a match between these 2 when they were both in their primes would be amazing

right now its like a Jordan who came out of retirement as a wizard (roger) vs prime LeBron (buchecha)

I would love for roger to win but I doubt it will happen
 
JinKazama said:
a match between these 2 when they were both in their primes would be amazing

right now its like a Jordan who came out of retirement as a wizard (roger) vs prime LeBron (buchecha)

I would love for roger to win but I doubt it will happen
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Ill bump this thread when he wins!
 
I havent seen a guy gettin to hold Buchecha down... He's too explosive. Rodolfo tried with his pressure, Bernardo's tight HG couldnt, Keenan's lapela guard (you gringo call it worm guard), the list goes on. Not even Roger could do so, and I'm hardly seeing how he can do it now.
 
alissonsp93 said:
I havent seen a guy gettin to hold Buchecha down... He's too explosive. Rodolfo tried with his pressure, Bernardo's tight HG couldnt, Keenan's lapela guard (you gringo call it worm guard), the list goes on. Not even Roger could do so, and I'm hardly seeing how he can do it now.
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Rocha held him down for a long time at this worlds that just passed by. I was front row.
 
alissonsp93 said:
I havent seen a guy gettin to hold Buchecha down... He's too explosive. Rodolfo tried with his pressure, Bernardo's tight HG couldnt, Keenan's lapela guard (you gringo call it worm guard), the list goes on. Not even Roger could do so, and I'm hardly seeing how he can do it now.
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Worm guard is a specific type of lapel guard.
 
Uchi Mata said:
This is simply not true. You can't let nostalgia color your views. Marcelo and Jacare are all time greats, but they weren't substantially better than guys like Leandro Lo, Galvao, or Rodolfo all of whom Buchecha consistently beat.

I do think Roger could have continued to win Mundials, but this isn't really a discussion about who's better all time between the two. It's about who's going to win their match, and I think all the factors favor Almeida.
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Roger has submitted Galvao and Calassans, neither of which Buchecha could finish. Roger's loss to Xande were because he was dicking around trying to judo throw him for 9 minutes, and then as time was running out, he finally decided to go to his A game, pulled guard and nearly armbarred Xande, just as time ran out. Xande has only barely beaten Roger, while Roger has completely destroyed Xande.

A tired, staphed out Roger actually passed Buchecha's guard and was winning the match by the 10 min ibjjf mark at metamoris.

I do think there's a lot of mat rust in Roger, while Buchecha has been actively competing, so I do think the cards are stacked against Roger. But if Roger had been actively competing today, I think he could take Buchecha.
 
Aethyr said:
Roger has submitted Galvao and Calassans, neither of which Buchecha could finish. Roger's loss to Xande were because he was dicking around trying to judo throw him for 9 minutes, and then as time was running out, he finally decided to go to his A game, pulled guard and nearly armbarred Xande, just as time ran out. Xande has only barely beaten Roger, while Roger has completely destroyed Xande.

A tired, staphed out Roger actually passed Buchecha's guard and was winning the match by the 10 min ibjjf mark at metamoris.

I do think there's a lot of mat rust in Roger, while Buchecha has been actively competing, so I do think the cards are stacked against Roger. But if Roger had been actively competing today, I think he could take Buchecha.
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Xande has beaten him 3 times. Once by points, twice on advantage. It'll be interesting to see, that's for sure. I suspect Buchecha will play differently in a points match than he did in Metamoris, but maybe not.
 
Uchi Mata said:
Xande has beaten him 3 times. Once by points, twice on advantage. It'll be interesting to see, that's for sure. I suspect Buchecha will play differently in a points match than he did in Metamoris, but maybe not.
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I don't think either of them played differently than usual. Roger's points game is his submission only game and vice versa - I mean, he likes to pass, mount, choke, which incidentally, racks up huge points too. Buchecha scrambles and jumps on any submission that presents itself. I think Buchecha's ad-hoc method leads to less submissions and that's why while he has more wins, his submission percentage is far lower than Roger's. Roger has submitted nearly all of his rivals, while Buchecha hasn't.
 
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