Roger GOAT confirmed?

[Rod1]

Roger is the true Rickson Gracie.

One every generation

 

[Junior Skilo]

@randomg1t It would be great if you expanded on your views of clean/sharp technique... + its correlation to technical proficiency

i say he's more technical because i see their technique and believe rafa's is sharper.

like i said, roger is far more accomplished, but my personal opinion is that rafa's technique is cleaner and more refined. you dispute my claim by listing accomplishments, which doesn't make any sense.

well yeah, that's what i'm saying. his technique is cleaner.

Please answer the question i previously asked, it will contribute greatly to this discussion:

Who would you say has "cleaner technique" Roger Gracie or Erberth Santos???

 

[randomg1t]

@randomg1t It would be great if you expanded on your views of clean/sharp technique... + its correlation to technical proficiency

Please answer the question i previously asked, it will contribute greatly to this discussion:

i'd say the gap in skill between any of the top guys is minimal.

you're trying to drag me into explaining some skill measuring arithmetic which you'll surely again dispute by listing roger's accomplishments, and i have neither the time nor the energy for that. i've seen countless matches of roger and rafa, as well as a shitton of training footage of rafa. i believe in his prime, he was p4p the best jiu jitsu fighter we've ever seen. that doesn't mean roger isn't the greatest competitor, and roger being the greatest competitor does not mean no one is his equal in technique.

i said rafa's technique is cleaner. you said smaller guys will always have cleaner technique. you agree with me, but somehow want me to admit that roger is better technically. i'm not disputing his accomplishments, he is the greatest of all time when it comes to sport jiu jitsu, so find someone else to bicker with.

 

[yetanother]

i you said smaller guys will always have cleaner technique.

Roger has cleaner technique than almost all the small guys because he does stuff slowly and precisely and avoids mad scrambles and split second decisions.

 

[Junior Skilo]

i'd say the gap in skill between any of the top guys is minimal.

you're trying to drag me into explaining some skill measuring arithmetic which you'll surely again dispute by listing roger's accomplishments, and i have neither the time nor the energy for that. i've seen countless matches of roger and rafa, as well as a shitton of training footage of rafa. i believe in his prime, he was p4p the best jiu jitsu fighter we've ever seen. that doesn't mean roger isn't the greatest competitor, and roger being the greatest competitor does not mean no one is his equal in technique.

i said rafa's technique is cleaner. you said smaller guys will always have cleaner technique. you agree with me, but somehow want me to admit that roger is better technically. i'm not disputing his accomplishments, he is the greatest of all time when it comes to sport jiu jitsu, so find someone else to bicker with.

But who do you think has cleaner/sharper technique?.. Erberth or Roger?

If you can compare two fighters who are seperated by almost 60lbs... Why are you finding it so hard to compare Erberth & Roger?.. Who compete in the same division... Would it help if I posted some videos in here?

Man its a pandemic!.. Ducking spreading like wildfire in the combat community!!. Don't fall victim to this disease!.. Answer the question!!!

 

[Solidus Snake]

Roger has cleaner technique than almost all the small guys because he does stuff slowly and precisely and avoids mad scrambles and split second decisions.

Best argument I've read so far btw

 

[Adamant]

Roger has my vote.

Roger = Gi GOAT
Marcelo = No gi GOAT

Prime Rickson? And Rolls?

 

[closequarters]

Prime Rickson? And Rolls?

It's hard for me to say Rickson or Rolls. I don't know what is fact and what is myth.

 

[Uchi Mata]

It's confirmed. Marcelo is still my favorite, but at this point I'm not sure there's any argument for anyone but Roger.

 

[NSchoke]

Roger has cleaner technique than almost all the small guys because he does stuff slowly and precisely and avoids mad scrambles and split second decisions.

He has the cleanest technique. I don't think anyone's technique would have overcome the disadvantages that he was up against the way he did with Buchecha.

 

[Fencer]

Apart from the Pan Championship where Rafa subbed Cobrinha... Rafa has never really separated himself from the rest of his division

I agree. Rafa fought too cautiously against top guys in Gi to be considered GOAT. That Pan fight was an exception.

 

[Ryo]

It's confirmed. Marcelo is still my favorite, but at this point I'm not sure there's any argument for anyone but Roger.

I see alot of people putting Marcelo ahead of Roger in no-gi. I don't really know how anyone can make that statement and seriously believe it. Roger would own Marcelo, gi or no-gi. Roger has dominated both sides of the sport.

 

[Pixelated Porn]

i think rafa is better technically, but roger is far more accomplished.

also, roger went and submitted all of his opponents with the same move in the worlds, in multiple years. once he choked everyone out with a cross collar choke from the mount. once with collar chokes from the back, if i'm not mistaking. he won his ADCC gold by choking everyone with a RNC... dude is insane.

Whatever Roger wants to do to you he will in the exact way you know he is going to do it, this is why I named my PENIS Roger Gracie.

 

[Aethyr]

Roger has cleaner technique than almost all the small guys because he does stuff slowly and precisely and avoids mad scrambles and split second decisions.

This. 100%. Its the very definition of technical, who doesn't use superior physical attributes like strength and speed, but the perfect application of technique and energy efficiency. The notion that Rafa's technique is cleaner is fucking laughable. Rafa's one of the greatest, but if anything, he's a great sport competitor, who wins most of his matches by points, especially against his arch-rivals, like Cobrinha or Tanquinho. Roger, on the contrary, has submitted every single one of his arch-rivals multiple times, slowly, methodically, by more or less the same techniques. Do you know why Rafa never submitted Cobrhina again? Because Cobrinha knew what to expect, how to defend against Rafa's game. The same goes for Tanquinho. Everyone knew Roger's game and yet couldn't defend against it. Not because he was too strong or too fast. But because he slowly countered everything they had and continued forward to his path to submission. That is the definition of technical.

 

[nefti]

Roger is the true Rickson Gracie.

One every generation

Not really, roger actually competes against the best even in his mid thirties.

 

[nefti]

This. 100%. Its the very definition of technical, who doesn't use superior physical attributes like strength and speed, but the perfect application of technique and energy efficiency. The notion that Rafa's technique is cleaner is fucking laughable. Rafa's one of the greatest, but if anything, he's a great sport competitor, who wins most of his matches by points, especially against his arch-rivals, like Cobrinha or Tanquinho. Roger, on the contrary, has submitted every single one of his arch-rivals multiple times, slowly, methodically, by more or less the same techniques. Do you know why Rafa never submitted Cobrhina again? Because Cobrinha knew what to expect, how to defend against Rafa's game. The same goes for Tanquinho. Everyone knew Roger's game and yet couldn't defend against it. Not because he was too strong or too fast. But because he slowly countered everything they had and continued forward to his path to submission. That is the definition of technical.

Didn't rafa tap cobrinha with an arm bar in one of the pan ams?

 

[nefti]

Roger has cleaner technique than almost all the small guys because he does stuff slowly and precisely and avoids mad scrambles and split second decisions.

I think they are both technical, the heavyweight crush and pressure along with the lightweight scramble and speed. I don't think the scrambles in the light weights are mindless scrambles, but rather transitions done by faster more agile people. If you notice the miyao brothers/mendes/cobrinha they end up in the same dominant position after these scrambles.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I see alot of people putting Marcelo ahead of Roger in no-gi. I don't really know how anyone can make that statement and seriously believe it. Roger would own Marcelo, gi or no-gi. Roger has dominated both sides of the sport.

He would, but Roger is a lot bigger than Marcelo. Marcelo's record at ADCC is the best ever, without a doubt. 4 golds, one silver against Popovitch in a match where Pop pretty blatantly grabbed his shorts and got away with it, a silver and bronze in the absolute while fighting at -77, that's untouchable. Roger got double gold in 2005, and lost to Einemo and Xande in 2003 (and I don't believe even competed in the absolute). It's not about who would beat who, that's largely a function of size here. It's about dominance over competition, and without the gi MG is far, far more dominant over a longer span of time than Roger.

 

[Ryo]

He would, but Roger is a lot bigger than Marcelo. Marcelo's record at ADCC is the best ever, without a doubt. 4 golds, one silver against Popovitch in a match where Pop pretty blatantly grabbed his shorts and got away with it, a silver and bronze in the absolute while fighting at -77, that's untouchable. Roger got double gold in 2005, and lost to Einemo and Xande in 2003 (and I don't believe even competed in the absolute). It's not about who would beat who, that's largely a function of size here. It's about dominance over competition, and without the gi MG is far, far more dominant over a longer span of time than Roger.

I understand your point but to me Rogers 2005 run was the pinnacle. All submissions. Werdum, Xande, Jacare,
This is not something Marcelo could have accomplished. I know it is a size issue as well for sure, but I do believe that if Roger had dedicated himself to no-gi during his prime like in 05, he would have many more world titles than anyone. He was always more interested in the gi. Roger in his prime as a blackbelt beat anyone, gi or no-gi.

 

[fanboysareevil]

You're glossing over a massive size difference and using arbitrary hypotheticals to make your point.