Rickson Gracie vs Hayward Nishioka (vintage footage) | Page 4

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by SBJ, Dec 24, 2011.

  1. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    Well the rest of the team didn't seem to have a "let's roll" attitude.

    Wouldn't know about judo. But gracies weren't coming from a judo club, and they sure told them who they were (since Hayward telling rickson he needs to train in a proper judo academy)
     
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  2. AnotherOldGuy Green Belt

    AnotherOldGuy
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    I don't know, I still don't see why Rickson, the number one BJJ competitor in the world, would go to a judo dojo with no world ranked judoka world and issue a challenge. Seriously, America has very few competitors even in the top 100 in the world in judo (and even at that because the Japanese are limited in the number of competitors they can send over - at the time only Jimmy Pedro Jr in Boston was a top level judoka), and the best in that club, Hayward, would actually be lucky to be top 100,000 (and that's being generous). If Rickson was serious he'd have gone to the Kodokan or at least a place with a few Olympic medalists.

    And Rickson would rightly be confident of winning against the Kodokan members. So why make a challenge against judo guys who themselves wouldn't last 20 seconds against even the mid-tier Kodokan guys (again no exaggeration, the average Kodokan guy would mop up all but a few American judoka). The choices are pretty simple, either Rickson is an a*hole thinking its cools to pit the top of one style against guys so far down the judo list that no one ever heard of them, or it was a much friendlier visit than people are making it.

    Think about it, its like Lebron James going to the local community center and seriously challenging the local basketball team to a game of basketball - who would take it seriously? I'd guess he would have way too much self-respect for that, so I think its more like when Shaq goes out and challenges street kids to play basketball, fun games which are in fact taped and often shown on youtube. If Shaq actually went out hard and then bragged about beating some local community center basketball players he'd be ridiculed, and I don't see Rickson having any less self respect than Shaq.

    And yeah, going light in randori is pretty common in judo. Like I said, we have 140 pound 15 year olds who've 'beaten' 220 pound Olympic medalists in randori, repeatedly throwing them. Its possible those Olympians had a bad day, but I'm thinking its more likely they were just having fun.
     
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  3. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    Where are you getting this was a challenge, it wasnt, they were there to train, roll whatever... Why rickson didn't go to the kodokan? well quite simple, they were in the us.
     
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  4. Ryo Black Belt

    Ryo
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    Lol Rickson been to Japan more times than most of us outside of Japan ever will. He's also been to the Kodokan several times. The Gracie's could have went there many times to "learn" from Olympic caliber athletes and have a "training session" whilst filming it....
     
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  5. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    yeah several times, when he was fighting MMA...not before the whole UFC thing.
     
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  6. AnotherOldGuy Green Belt

    AnotherOldGuy
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    People in this thread have suggested it was a challenge. My point is that it wasn't, it was just a friendly visit. Which in judo means everyone is going light, and no one cares who wins, because randori isn't shiai (ie randori is where you practice, trying different things, some of which might work, much of which is stuff you're not competent at yet so you try it under circumstances where you expect to fail at it many times until you get it). Shiai is competition mode, where you're out to win. Some club practice is shiai, but 90% of it is randori, and a club visit is almost always randori (and light randori at that) unless its set up as a competition, because its considered unfriendly and creates hard feelings if people go hard in a visit situation.

    And my point about the Kodokan was simply that if the Gracies were out to make a challenge, to compete against judo people instead of just having a fun visit, they'd have gone to someplace like the Kodokan. Remember, they were the best BJJ club in the world at the time, if they wanted to test themselves and judo they'd have gone against the best judo club, not a judo club without a single competitor in the top 100,000 of the judo world.

    You seem to be agreeing with me that this was just two clubs having fun rather than anyone challenging or testing themselves. And taping visits, taking pictures and the like is actually pretty normal, we do it all the time (much easier now that everyone has a smart phone).
     
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