Rener Gracie: "Sage didn't tap too fast, it was a modified Von Flue choke"

[Metal_Daze]

Many people (including fighters) criticized Sage Northcutt's decision to tap. The main argument is that it was a poorly applied arm-triangle that shouldn't lead to a tapout. Well Rener Gracie has a different opinion: he claims that in fact, the submission was a sneaky "modified" Von Flue choke that was well executed. He explains the difference in details and concludes that the choke lasted longer than we thought and the pressure was much more suffocating than what we were lead to believe. He believes Sage did not tap late but rather he tapped at the tail end of a well applied submission.

Starts at 1:00


Coupled with Sage MMA hour interview Monday where he claims he was very sick and congested, I believe we can cut some slack to the 19 years-old prodigy and let him get back on his feet slowly.

Starts at 1:46:20


Let's take a step back and remember that back at 19 years old, most of us were still teens hanging out and having fun while Sage has to suffer incredible pressure and the weight of the limelight, coupled with all the criticism his loss brought this weekend.

Breathe and relax, shall we?

 

[TFanatic]

How much slack I choose to give Sage for being 19 has little to no affect on what he does, so I'll keep doing what I'm doing.

 

[LiveFreeorDie]

Keep Calm and Sage On

 

[RoscoeRufus]

only Sage and Bryan know how tight that choke truly was, the rest is just speculation. I think his lack of a ground game is more of a concern, at that rate he was gonna lose anyway...

 

[tenniswhiz]

Interesting.
I wouldn't have thought of it that way.

Thing is, von Flue, d'Arce, Anaconda, are all variations of the arm triangle. It's the same principle, trapping the shoulder on one side and sealing them off by grabbing the bicep (and which side you grab the bicep and the position you're in changes the name of the choke).
With leg triangles, whether inverted, upside down, or conventional, we call all of them "triangle".

 

[Metal_Daze]

only Sage and Bryan know how tight that choke truly was, the rest is just speculation. I think his lack of a ground game is more of a concern, at that rate he was gonna lose anyway...

Very good point. In fact, that was also Rener's conclusion: if Sage has to be criticized, it's not for tapping to fast but for failing to escape. Well, he did not "exactly" say that but that was part of his 1000 words explanation...

Heart of the matter is, we all thought it was a loose arm-triangle that made Sage tap in 2 seconds but Rener explains that it was a tight Von Flue that was locked for nearly 10 seconds.

Ask me who I trust more: fellow sherdoggers who can bench teh 300 or BJJ master and professor extraordinaire Rener Gracie.

 

[chunglii]

shouldn't be putting his arm up near his head/neck when his opponent has a cross face anyway. still needs to work on his BJJ.

 

[Turf Skirmish]

Given Rener's analysis, the fact that another fighter tweated "Von Flue got you", that Barberena himself stated that it was in deep and that he catches these regularly in practice, I am more than willing now to accept that Sage got tapped legitimately and that it wasn't necessarily a quick tap. The possibility of sickness and congestion just adds support to Sage's susceptibility to the choke. He didn't need the sickness excuse.

 

[chitoortiz]

Very good point. In fact, that was also Rener's conclusion: if Sage has to be criticized, it's not for tapping to fast but for failing to escape. Well, he did not "exactly" say that but that was part of his 1000 words explanation...

Heart of the matter is, we all thought it was a loose arm-triangle that made Sage tap in 2 seconds but Rener explains that it was a tight Von Flue that was locked for nearly 10 seconds.

Ask me who I trust more: fellow sherdoggers who can bench teh 300 or BJJ master and professor extraordinaire Rener Gracie.

I'd take a sherdogger's word any day over a Gracie's.

 

[NaughtyBoy]

That explains everything. Sage is still the next big thing.

 

[Oenomaus]

TS: Suffering incredible pressure is living in a 3rd world country, making $8.00 a week and trying to feed your family, not fighting for 40k/40k at 19 years old. I'm sure he'll be just fine. Sounds like a good catch by Rener, these chokes can be tricky sometimes

 

[KootenayKid]

only Sage and Bryan know how tight that choke truly was, the rest is just speculation. I think his lack of a ground game is more of a concern, at that rate he was gonna lose anyway...

Thread

 

[EGarrett]

Rener was another Ronda-promoter whose channel suddenly went dark after she got decimated, so everything he says from now on is questionable.

Also, it may have been a deep Von Flue-style choke, but if so, why did Sage bitch to the ref immediately after the stoppage?

 

[Reign009]

Rener is legit. Good for him for going against the popular opinion and making this video. Even Rogan called it an early tap.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Also, it may have been a deep Von Flue-style choke, but if so, why did Sage bitch to the ref immediately after the stoppage?

This

 

[Eli1015]

People will always find a way to talk shit. The kid is 19 years old, came into the UFC, won 2 in a row and lost 1. He's got a bright future. I look forward to seeing how he does with less pressure now that he's lost one.

 

[Word]

The Gracies are mostly scam artists just trying to make a buck off the family name. I did watch the Monday Morning Analysis with Luke Thomas and found his explanation to be pretty thorough.

 

[Goatenstein]

People will always find a way to talk shit. The kid is 19 years old, came into the UFC, won 2 in a row and lost 1. He's got a bright future. I look forward to seeing how he does with less pressure now that he's lost one.

Keep making excuses.

 

[MMAAAM]

 

[tombombadil]

Good thread, I wasn't so sure of Rogan's call. I'd never heard of a Von Flue, but I did think that Barberena had his weight way over to the side you're supposed to scarf to for a head and arm.

I guess I'm most surprised at so many fighter's bashing Northnuts.