Relapse into haymakers - lack of training, composure or IQ?

[Hotora86]

Simple question - especially to the wonderful people posting here who are actual coaches (@Sinister).

Watching Pudzian vs Tyberian and Popek vs Burneika at KSW 39, despite very low expectations, I still could not accept how shit these guys' striking was. Especially Pudz, who just recently boasted his "honed" striking with the below video and has been training MMA since 2009 (!) still relapsed into mindless, defenseless, looping haymakers, much like the others mentioned.



Throwing straight punches ain't rocket science. I mean, of course, the art of boxing is indeed "the sweet science" and takes a lifetime to master but simply forcing yourself to throw a straight jab and a straight cross instead of a looping haymaker shouldn't be impossible even for newbies. Right??

So why do all these "professional" MMA fighters who have striking coaches and camps and so on, lose technique as soon as the fight starts? Is it due to:

• lack of training? (not long enough, shitty coaches, shitty methods)
• lack of composure? (forgets everything in the heat of battle and just throws)
• lack of IQ? (simply too dumb to understand / remember what he was taught)

 

[j123]

Simple question - especially to the wonderful people posting here who are actual coaches (@Sinister).

Watching Pudzian vs Tyberian and Popek vs Burneika at KSW 39, despite very low expectations, I still could not accept how shit these guys' striking was. Especially Pudz, who just recently boasted his "honed" striking with the below video and has been training MMA since 2009 (!) still relapsed into mindless, defenseless, looping haymakers, much like the others mentioned.



Throwing straight punches ain't rocket science. I mean, of course, the art of boxing is indeed "the sweet science" and takes a lifetime to master but simply forcing yourself to throw a straight jab and a straight cross instead of a looping haymaker shouldn't be impossible even for newbies. Right??

So why do all these "professional" MMA fighters who have striking coaches and camps and so on, lose technique as soon as the fight starts? Is it due to:

• lack of training? (not long enough, shitty coaches, shitty methods)
• lack of composure? (forgets everything in the heat of battle and just throws)
• lack of IQ? (simply too dumb to understand / remember what he was taught)

I'm not a pro coach or anything, so if you want to take what I say with a grain of salt thats fine; From what my coach says, and what I've dealt with myself competitive wise, reverting back to your instincts is due to a lack of drilling the gameplan. Like technique, combos, etc. the gameplan also needs to be drilled to death to become borderline instinctual and rooted in muscle memory.

I do find its a cop out for coaches that say "Oh, he lost because he didn't stick to the game plan", placing 100% of the blame on the fighter rather than take responsibility on the lacking of coaching.

We all know fighting is when cognitive thinking is hindered and we end up relying back on our instincts heavily compared to regular tasks in our everyday lives.

 

[PivotPunch]

I thought Pudzianowski looked pretty incredible if you compare it to his earlier fights even if he took a while. Especially since it's MMA and not only that but HW MMA. If he was younger he could make it to the UFC like that.

With MMA they train a 100 different things and have to think of 100 different things so it's harder to focus on exact technique probably especially if it's not your base.
It's also character and style someone like Pudzianowski is literally the strongest MMA fighte rin the world so he feels like he can overwhelm other. he alos knows that his cardio and technique isn't as refined so he takes more chances to finish early.

There are high level fighters and strikers who throw like that. Rumble being the most apparent. No one doubts that he is one of the best strikers in MMA but he throws like a madman. Even eltie boxers like Tyson could go into that mode.

if you have an aggressive style/personality and the physical attributes to go with it it's hard to keep composure especially in a fight I imagiena nd not just in training

 

[ctrlaltdelete]

I'll throw sloppier punches when frustrated.

You gotta catch yourself and get your mind right.

 

[Ilk]

I am with j123. It is just drilling and good coaching. I can not reflect on how being refined technically by a good coach makes a huge difference. From being though the basics, to drilling them to death to someone competent to understand your strengths and create a basic game plan for you for all of your fights, to a way to fight a named opponent. Then it is a trust from the fighter in his or her coach. Lastly it is experience of all that combined.

 

[rmongler]

When under stress people revert to type.

Thus, you need to drill your A game to such a degree that it becomes habit, always and already your 'type'.

Honestly, i think its more optimal to train nothing but straits most of the time.

A crispy strait is one of the easiest shorthand indicators around for telling right away whether a guy has good striking or not.

 

[Samuel Reynoso]

The hardes/fastest punches always feel almost too easy as you throw them. You need a lot of faith in your technique to believe that more "effort" wont give you better results.

 

[j123]

The hardes/fastest punches always feel almost too easy as you throw them. You need a lot of faith in your technique to believe that more "effort" wont give you better results.

This actually happens alot, there are times I throw a kick that sounds and feels weak, but it turns out its the hardest I've given.

 

[Hotora86]

The hardes/fastest punches always feel almost too easy as you throw them. You need a lot of faith in your technique to believe that more "effort" wont give you better results.

That's true. Most untrained people tense up horribly when throwing punches and slow themselves down! Being loose is essential for fast and powerful strikes.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

It might sound counter productive but I try to punch soft almost. I focus on the correct punching form, driving in with the hips and torso like good form would dictate, and I've been focusing a lot on the kinetic chain to increase my power punching - but when I've been sparring even if its hard sparring, I'm just relaxing and trying to land the punch itself, and I'm trusting that if my punch doesn't have the correct form for power, that it will get there with more practice and padwork

 

[j123]

It might sound counter productive but I try to punch soft almost. I focus on the correct punching form, driving in with the hips and torso like good form would dictate, and I've been focusing a lot on the kinetic chain to increase my power punching - but when I've been sparring even if its hard sparring, I'm just relaxing and trying to land the punch itself, and I'm trusting that if my punch doesn't have the correct form for power, that it will get there with more practice and padwork

I find it better in practice with shadow boxing in terms of form

 

[Ilk]

I think it is important to add intensive and hard rounds does not matter if sparring, on the bag or shadow boxing. Just a couple of rounds so the body gets used to trowing hard with proper technique. By trowing hard I mostly mean quick and intensive. My new and very good coach always burns me in the end with 2-3 intensive rounds at the bag.

I always train with straights only. May trow a hook or uppercut on the pads but when on a heavy bag I am told to trow only straights.

 

[j123]

I think it is important to add intensive and hard rounds does not matter if sparring, on the bag or shadow boxing. Just a couple of rounds so the body gets used to trowing hard with proper technique. By trowing hard I mostly mean quick and intensive. My new and very good coach always burns me in the end with 2-3 intensive rounds at the bag.

I always train with straights only. May trow a hook or uppercut on the pads but when on a heavy bag I am told to trow only straights.

One issue newer guys have is assuming power = speed. Then end up throwing kitten pat type strikes. Once they learn to throw fast, yet light on power, it becomes alot better and more realistic. I know because I had this problem when I first started out as well.

 

[Samuel Reynoso]

It might sound counter productive but I try to punch soft almost. I focus on the correct punching form, driving in with the hips and torso like good form would dictate, and I've been focusing a lot on the kinetic chain to increase my power punching - but when I've been sparring even if its hard sparring, I'm just relaxing and trying to land the punch itself, and I'm trusting that if my punch doesn't have the correct form for power, that it will get there with more practice and padwork

I think along the same line, but it sounds so counter intuitive I try to avoid talking about it. haha

 

[Ilk]

One issue newer guys have is assuming power = speed. Then end up throwing kitten pat type strikes. Once they learn to throw fast, yet light on power, it becomes alot better and more realistic. I know because I had this problem when I first started out as well.

That is what I meant with intensity actually. Not volume but quick and contracting in the end and not pushin and hard.


I am tought to trow right now in a way I cant really explain but it feels powerful. For example the jab in position which does not include steps starts from a move in feet like calf rises. The movement feels like you are waving. You start relaxed, rising on your toes your jab moves out of guard positon, snaps you reach the highest point of the wave and you get back to your natural defending position. However the steping jabs are way different and not so powerful although when stepping forward I do move my huge body and it transfers to my punch.

I can not explain the right but it feels like a twist both on the punch and the torso kicking with the hip and it feels most powerful if I am real quick and relaxed at the same time. Putting muscle power only when returning my hand and body to natural defending position

I do not fully understand you though. What do you have in your mind?

 

[JSnake]

In situations where your body senses its life is in danger and is under great stress, instinct usually takes over. Which tends to channel more animalistic tendencies as opposed to the refined striking developed from a composed frame of mind.

 

[Hotora86]

Still hoping for some output from @Sinister.
I also wonder if it varies from person to person i.e. some ppl will relapse despite years of training, some need just a few months and some (perhaps) instinctively throw straight?

 

[Universal Kombat]

Simple question - especially to the wonderful people posting here who are actual coaches (@Sinister).

Watching Pudzian vs Tyberian and Popek vs Burneika at KSW 39, despite very low expectations, I still could not accept how shit these guys' striking was. Especially Pudz, who just recently boasted his "honed" striking with the below video and has been training MMA since 2009 (!) still relapsed into mindless, defenseless, looping haymakers, much like the others mentioned.



Throwing straight punches ain't rocket science. I mean, of course, the art of boxing is indeed "the sweet science" and takes a lifetime to master but simply forcing yourself to throw a straight jab and a straight cross instead of a looping haymaker shouldn't be impossible even for newbies. Right??

So why do all these "professional" MMA fighters who have striking coaches and camps and so on, lose technique as soon as the fight starts? Is it due to:

• lack of training? (not long enough, shitty coaches, shitty methods)
• lack of composure? (forgets everything in the heat of battle and just throws)
• lack of IQ? (simply too dumb to understand / remember what he was taught)

One could say the same thing about strikers in MMA or grappling competitions. Shrimping ain't rocket science, setting up a takedown ain't rocket science, etc etc if you catch my drift.

Why do strikers in MMA have shitty wrestling/grappling? Lack of training? (not long enough, shitty coaches, shitty methods)

Do you get what I'm getting at?

 

[Hotora86]

One could say the same thing about strikers in MMA or grappling competitions. Shrimping ain't rocket science, setting up a takedown ain't rocket science, etc etc if you catch my drift.

Why do strikers in MMA have shitty wrestling/grappling? Lack of training? (not long enough, shitty coaches, shitty methods)

Do you get what I'm getting at?

Sorry but I disagree. Anyone can throw a punch, you don't have to teach that. Anyone can be shown a STRAIGHT punch and copy it instantly. It is among the most basic human movements.

Shrimping isn't natural, it's not basic, it's not simple. Not all people can copy this movement from just watching it performed.

Setting up a takedown is even more complicated. A takedown alone is hard to perform for a newbie, even in training, even with compliant partners. Setting it up is HARD, setting it up for MMA IS rocket science.

It would make more sense to compare straight punches to sit-ups for example. It's a simple, basic human movement, though there are proper/safe ways of doing, which are taught fairly easily.

 

[Universal Kombat]

Sorry but I disagree. Anyone can throw a punch, you don't have to teach that. Anyone can be shown a STRAIGHT punch and copy it instantly. It is among the most basic human movements.

Shrimping isn't natural, it's not basic, it's not simple. Not all people can copy this movement from just watching it performed.

Setting up a takedown is even more complicated. A takedown alone is hard to perform for a newbie, even in training, even with compliant partners. Setting it up is HARD, setting it up for MMA IS rocket science.

It would make more sense to compare straight punches to sit-ups for example. It's a simple, basic human movement, though there are proper/safe ways of doing, which are taught fairly easily.

Sorry but I disagree as well. Takedowns are even more natural to humans than punching. We're monkeys and grappling is something we're more suited to. Wrestling is arguably the first martial art in the world.

You don't need protective gear to grapple, but one needs two wraps MINIMUM on each hand and then a padded glove above it to keep them from breaking. Proof humans are not designed to punch.

Look at Mike Tysons street fights, they devolve to grappling, biting, and breaking his hands every single time he threw punches outside the ring.

Grappling should come even more easier to people, biologically speaking.

And yeah... everyone can throw a punch just like everyone can go for a takedown doesn't mean theyre going to be good at it.