Reaping the knee

i love how you answer a question with a question. Now we are adding takedowns also?

Well you have just done the same. Now are you suggesting the leg locks and takedowns are not the traditional 'holes' that many BJJ guys have?
 
TS - If you want to achilles' lock with vim and vigor, do the cross over variation where you put their right foot under your right armpit. This will amplify the pain, but anatomically, it's way harder to get into that knee-reap gray area, because even if you leglace from the outside to the inside the ankle-knee-hip will be straight for the most part, of not slightly bowed in the opposite direction of an illegal reap. You can also 50-50 without reservation since heel hooks are illegal as well (in the gi).

If you don't want to reap or cross over, I believe it is legal to roll over and belly down achilles (I need a rules expert here to confirm). This is a bitch to escape and I don't think it cross into illegality.
 
Well you have just done the same. Now are you suggesting the leg locks and takedowns are not the traditional 'holes' that many BJJ guys have?

You made a statement, I asked for you to cite examples a
to support your statement. So far you have not. Also, you started off with leglocks and then changed the subject to leglocks and takedowns. So I ask you again to support your original statement: can you name a " high lvl" Bjj competitor who has suffered from a supposed lack of footlock training?
 
You made a statement, I asked for you to cite examples a
to support your statement. So far you have not. Also, you started off with leglocks and then changed the subject to leglocks and takedowns. So I ask you again to support your original statement: can you name a " high lvl" Bjj competitor who has suffered from a supposed lack of footlock training?

I mentioned holes in the game of traditional BJJ, to me thats leg locks and take downs. Most honest BJJ'ers are happy to admit this.

I'll quote a high level Bjj guy for you...

'I feel very, very comfortable with leg locks and naturally gravitated towards them because of the way that my guard developed. The reality is that almost anyone can get good quickly [at leg locks] because almost everyone else (even at the high competitive levels) is so ignorant of them (particularly the 50/50). It
 
The brown belt wasn't pulling my leg. If anything he was angry. He legitimately thought I was cheating.

You said the straight foot lock has been legal at blue belt since the first mundials. Are you sure you don't mean white belt? The fact that even your post is unclear in regards to footlock history is proof that leg lock legality ambiguity IS the rule, and not the exception.

Historically, there was no white belt division in the Mundials. So blue belt would have been the lowest division.
 
I mentioned holes in the game of traditional BJJ, to me thats leg locks and take downs. Most honest BJJ'ers are happy to admit this.

I'll quote a high level Bjj guy for you...

'I feel very, very comfortable with leg locks and naturally gravitated towards them because of the way that my guard developed. The reality is that almost anyone can get good quickly [at leg locks] because almost everyone else (even at the high competitive levels) is so ignorant of them (particularly the 50/50). It
 
Has Ryan Hall beaten any high level BJJ players in the gi with leglocks? ^_^

Or with IBJJF legal ones only?

Just to complicate things a little. ^_-

Take care,

Oli
 
Has Ryan Hall beaten any high level BJJ players in the gi with leglocks? ^_^

Or with IBJJF legal ones only?

Just to complicate things a little. ^_-

Take care,

Oli

Well, I just watched the Ryan Hall vs Joel Tudor. and it was a heelhook at Naga.
 
Good read but then my question is:
So has Ryan beat any high level BJJ players with leg locks?

v. Joel Tudor: YouTube - Ryan Hall (Fifty/50) v. Joel Tudor (BJJ Revolution)

v. Daniel Tavares: YouTube - Ryan Hall (Lloyd Irvin) v. Daniel Tavares (Ademir Olivera)

v. Jon Stutzman (Jorge Gurgel BB): YouTube - Ryan Hall (Lloyd Irvin) v. Jon Stutzman (Jorge Gurgel)

v. Henry Matamoros (Pedro Sauer BB): YouTube - Ryan Hall VS Henry Matamoros - King Grappler 5 Superfight

v. Ryan Lang (2x NCAA D-I All-American): YouTube - Ryan Hall vs. Ryan Lang ADCC trials

v. Roberto Nery (heel hooks the crap out of this guy before RNCing him): YouTube - Ryan Hall (Fifty/50 BJJ) v. Roberto Nery (Nova Uniao)



Other guys who come to mind: Diego Saraiva (Nova Uniao BB), Scott Bieri (Marc Laimon BB), Rafael Correa (Gracie Barra black belt world champ). All those wins came when Ryan was a purple belt.
 
v. Joel Tudor: YouTube - Ryan Hall (Fifty/50) v. Joel Tudor (BJJ Revolution)

v. Daniel Tavares: YouTube - Ryan Hall (Lloyd Irvin) v. Daniel Tavares (Ademir Olivera)

v. Jon Stutzman (Jorge Gurgel BB): YouTube - Ryan Hall (Lloyd Irvin) v. Jon Stutzman (Jorge Gurgel)

v. Henry Matamoros (Pedro Sauer BB): YouTube - Ryan Hall VS Henry Matamoros - King Grappler 5 Superfight

v. Ryan Lang (2x NCAA D-I All-American): YouTube - Ryan Hall vs. Ryan Lang ADCC trials

v. Roberto Nery (heel hooks the crap out of this guy before RNCing him): YouTube - Ryan Hall (Fifty/50 BJJ) v. Roberto Nery (Nova Uniao)



Other guys who come to mind: Diego Saraiva (Nova Uniao BB), Scott Bieri (Marc Laimon BB), Rafael Correa (Gracie Barra black belt world champ). All those wins came when Ryan was a purple belt.

Thank for the links.

I take it that that are all Nogi events, 50/50, heelhooks win.
 
Just doing some research on leglock rules in Bjj and came across this thread. I know these are tournament rules, but is reaping the knee and attacking the foot with the leg on top accepted in nogi bjj training? Just trying to establish some kind of unofficial consensus because that's the way I've been learning them at my Sambo school. It would suck if someone got all uptight on me during a roll.

The link to goatfurys blog was very helpful. I agree with this comment on the blog post:

Frederick said...
G
Great post, I love the clarification.

However, these rules are going to create a generation of grapplers who can't leg-lock correctly.

You always want to have the locked leg up and their other leg underneath you if you can. It prevents any number of very easy escapes.

You always want to 'reap the knee' (more accurately: control the hip) and double lace if you can to get an isolation that can not be easily broken.

These rules are the equivalent to making it illegal to put a leg across/over the face for an armlock.
 
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according to that site showing whats legal where, it says the ankle lock where I fall on the side opposite of the leg I attack is only legal in no gi-advanced (I dont care about gi). Isnt this a little extreme? I can understand no heel hooks, but this? Glad Im not planning on competing anytime soon.
 
Thank for the links.

I take it that that are all Nogi events, 50/50, heelhooks win.

The match with Tudor was just a regular heelhook, not a reverse heelhook and not from 50/50 guard.

The match against Matamoros was a reverse heelhook, and although it was technically 50/50 guard, there was no outside leg triangle in place on the finish. The far side leg was all the way across Matamoros' abdomen, blocking his far hip.
 
according to that site showing whats legal where, it says the ankle lock where I fall on the side opposite of the leg I attack is only legal in no gi-advanced (I dont care about gi). Isnt this a little extreme? I can understand no heel hooks, but this? Glad Im not planning on competing anytime soon.

It is extreme. Ialways fall to the legal side, but that's because I'm more comfortable with that. I didn't know it was illegal at IBJJF to fall with the trapped leg on top.
 
you can pull on the head on a triangle.

Except if you are a babby (or a white belt [same difference 8)]). Which is a bullshit rule.

If you can't reap the knee then how are you supposed to finish straight ankle locks? I've always been taught to reap the knee., I wasn't aware that it was a problem.

I was taught to either do it from 50/50 or to press my knees against his leg while doing the ankle lock, and I'm able to finish them consistently. I'd imagine it would be much easier if reaping the leg was allowed, but I've never tried such a thing.
 
I've tapped black belts in competition with leg locks, and I'm not even that great with them. One of them tried to spin the wrong way out of a heel hook. Yea, he didn't know what was going on.

A friend of mine, AT BLUE BELT, tapped a brown belt 4 stripes out with toe holds TWICE in the same competition.

Bill Cooper got tapped out by a relatively unknown black belt Paul Stark. I think he won with a giant swing to reaping the knee heel hook.

Ryan Hall had his successes, but for some reason unexplained these don't count.

On a side note, does anyone see the hilarity in asking for competition videos of high level gi players getting leg locked (no gi doesn't count!), when the point is that the rules of gi are slanted against leg locks and thus there are holes in people's games?

Ridiculous.
 
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