Reaping the knee

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Acexwanderer, Apr 12, 2010.

  1. Acexwanderer Blue Belt

    Acexwanderer
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    Can someone please explain to me clearly with a picture preferably what reaping the knee is?

    From what I have seen and read I can't be right, from what I understand reaping the knee is when you wrap your outside leg over his leg and put your leg across his hips but that's how I've always been taught to finish leg locks and its not dangerous.

    I'm confused have I got the wrong image of reaping the knee or is this one of those bs rules like not grabbing the head for the triangle?
     
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  2. nefti Black Belt

    nefti
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    you can pull on the head on a triangle.
     
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  3. redaxe Silver Belt

    redaxe
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    you are right, what you described is reaping the knee, and it is illegal in gi BJJ.

    You need to keep your foot from crossing his hip from the outside, or you will get DQ'ed.
     
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  4. Acexwanderer Blue Belt

    Acexwanderer
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    The comps where I come from don't allow pulling the head down to finish the triangle and no guillotines for white belts, its ridiculous.

    If you can't reap the knee then how are you supposed to finish straight ankle locks? I've always been taught to reap the knee., I wasn't aware that it was a problem.
     
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  5. BJJ Coffee Drinker Amateur Fighter

    BJJ Coffee Drinker
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    what if the guy grabs your foot/ankle when you go for the footlock and pulls it across to make it reap their leg? do you still get DQ?
     
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  6. phillys-finest Black Belt

    phillys-finest
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    Anybody got a pic or vid?
     
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  7. nefti Black Belt

    nefti
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    are your comps adult cbjj/ibjjf? and yes you can finish the footlock without reaping the knee.
     
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  8. xMikeyX Purple Belt

    xMikeyX
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    Asking because of Fowler? Trust me people are looking into this right now on the Pan thread and otherwise. I am not a lawyer nor have I experience getting called for a reap. But Fowler seemed to pull his opponent's foot into a dangerous area and then seemingly tapped out having a conversation with the ref.

    What you been up to Hawaii #2?
     
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  9. Acexwanderer Blue Belt

    Acexwanderer
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    Last time I competed the comps were under ibjjf rules and guillotines were allowed but I'm not a white belt so it doesn't affect me. I haven't competed in a while but I believe its the ibjjf rules for the world trials but maybe not for the other comps.

    I know you can finish the straight ankle lock without reaping the knee but if you could there's no reason not to reap the knee? It makes the straight ankle lock less effective. I'm trying to understand understand why this rule is in place, sure you could possibly hurt someones knee but I've never seen it happen and I've never felt in danger when my leg is reaped surely there must be some proof.
     
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  10. Five by Five Orange Belt

    Five by Five
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  11. Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

    Calibur
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    There are a few reasons.

    1. It makes it easier to distinguish between an achilles lock and a heel hook, since it is almost impossible to do a standard heel hook without reaping the knee.

    2. You really can accidentally hurt your partner with a knee reap. The chance of danger is kind of low, but it is still there.

    3. It is harder to lock in an achilles lock without reaping and at the moment the IBJJF is doing everything it can to discourage the use of lower body subs in tournaments.

    I don&t worry about it so much. The reaping rules forced my leg lock game to get more technical, just as I imagine not being allowed to pull the head for a triangle choke makes people more technical with it.
     
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  12. Jaxx Green Belt

    Jaxx
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    This is the only reason IMHO. Despite great advancement in sub wrestling/ nogi leglocks by BJJ guys, the IBJJF still have a problem with leg locks. Its a shame because the ignorance of leg locks leaves good grapplers with holes in their game that do not get addressed.

    Only more technical in a BJJ sense. Imagine being able to reap the knee and have access to submission flows that stem from it. The foot on the hip variation i find easy to counter and leaves your foot/heel exposed...i know twisting leg locks are illegal but i always prefer to at least have my feet hidden from 'grab and twist' idiots that turn up in class.
     
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  13. nefti Black Belt

    nefti
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    just out of curiosity, can you name "good grapplers" (btw are black/brown belts) with "holes in their games"?
     
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  14. Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

    Calibur
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    When you get attacked with a lower body attack there are right things to do and wrong things to do.

    Only in regards to leg attacks have I rolled with several black belts who do "the wrong thing." It gets to the point to where I don't even go for them on them because it just gets embarrassing. Can you imagine toning yourself down because your afraid a black belt would have problems surviving the technique.

    Note, the guys I am referring to were solid. Good guard passing. Good sweeps, subs. Solid fundamentals all around.

    One brown belt even told me he didn't know straight footlocks were legal. o_O This is what happens when ego gets in the way.

    -edit- I have also rolled with several black belts with amazing lower body sub technique. It's just that this is the only aspect of BJJ (besides maybe takedowns) where I see the most inconsistancy among higher ranked guys.
     
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  15. Jaxx Green Belt

    Jaxx
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    A quicker response would be, in a BJJ context of course, name the browns and blacks with good leg locks and any sort of take downs/throws.
     
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  16. nefti Black Belt

    nefti
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    the straight foot lock has been legal at blue belt and above almost since the first pan ams mundials. For a brown belt to say that he didn't know that straight foot locks were legal imho he was 1) pulling your leg or 2) an uninformed person that is not the "rule"
     
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  17. nefti Black Belt

    nefti
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    i love how you answer a question with a question. Now we are adding takedowns also?
     
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  18. lechien Gold Belt

    lechien
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    I am not too sure what is your angle?
    If you do not like the IBJJF rules, then go compete and support federations that allows leg locks techniques that you want to do.
     
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  19. TastyLumpia Orange Belt

    TastyLumpia
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    I can't see how a high level BJJer making basic errors on submission defense is NOT a big issue.

    This is similar the new Judo ban on leg grabs. Rather than the sport adapting to techniques that are apparently very useful in competition, they tweak the rules to cover the weakness. Don't get me wrong, the leg reap rules aren't nearly as bad as the Judo leg grab ban because there are legitimate safety concerns with twisting leg locks, but you cannot deny that many traditionalist BJJers view of leglocks is similar to a traditionalist Judoka on leg grabs, "dirty" and "not technical".

    If you subscribe to the viewpoint that BJJ is the most practical grappling/fighting/self-defense art, it's when there's such a hole in the traditional BJJ game. Yes, sport BJJ is not the same as a fight. Obviously IBJFF is does not represent the entire spectrum of the art, but it is one of the biggest, being the central governing body. That's the issue at hand.
     
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  20. Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

    Calibur
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    The brown belt wasn't pulling my leg. If anything he was angry. He legitimately thought I was cheating.

    You said the straight foot lock has been legal at blue belt since the first mundials. Are you sure you don't mean white belt? The fact that even your post is unclear in regards to footlock history is proof that leg lock legality ambiguity IS the rule, and not the exception.
     
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